Anybody have any clue who Valachi was on about when he mentioned this alledged Consigliere?

In my opinion it was Johnny Torrio either Costello never told anybody who he was getting advice from or Valachi respected Torrio so much that he never wanted to implicate him.

These two reasons kinda back me up
•Johnny Torrio died in 1957 and Sandino was apparently Consigliere until 1957 although this might have been due to Genovese's takeover if it wasn't Torrio
•Torrio was an advisor during the 30's to Luciano and Co

I know that this subject may have appeared before but I wasn't able to find it no matter how thoroughly I searched

He was an advisor to Tony Bender who also may or may not have served as consigliere for the Genoveses. I believe his birth name was Alessandro Pandolfo.

Where is the evidence that Torrio was even made?

Snakes, Sandino was a member of the Cortese-Lunetta-Pandolfo clan, but do not know if Alessandro Pandolfo is his name. Good fine Snakes. Made or not, Torrio was well respected and trusted among the families.

I'll buy that, because Sandino sounds like a nickname for Alessandro.

Sandino Pandolfo was consigliere of the Genovese family from the mid 1930's until the mid 1950's....

Don't you think Faithful, that the whole blood & fire induction ceremony was primarily to impress the young foot soldiers and that a guy like Johnny Torrio, who was an elder statesman in the eyes of Lucky Luciano, would be made without formality in those days?

See this is one of those questions that I look at like........

So it went, what?
Lucky- Boss
Genovese - UnderBoss
Pandolfo- Consiglieri?
Costello - Capo-regime
Joe Adonis - Capo-regime

Really?

Then Lucky goes to jail, and it's....
Genovese -Boss
Costello - UnderBoss?
Pandolfo - Consiglieri?

Then Genovese flees and its.....

Costello - Boss
Moretti - UnderBoss
Pandolfo - Consiglieri? ( still?)

So Mike Miranda makes consigliere in 57? Who was this Pandolfo aligned with? I'm assuming a holdover from the oldMasseria is group. Did he have a crew, and if so, who were the successors?

I actually got another question, did Maranzano start the actual hierarchy, or was it already in place? Was there always a consigliere position, or was that created by either Maranzano or Luciano?

Tony Bender would have been number three before or after Miranda?

I feel exhausted already even asking this, but.......

ANY chance of a source on this Cortese-Lunneta clan... Cause otherwise......

It's like.....dude.....

I'm not gonna lie, this seems very weird to me, but in a way it makes sense.

Like it sort of explains why Joey A. never had an administration position.

But still, who the hell WAS this guy? I'm assuming he goes back to Masseria, cause I've never heard of him being a bootlegging power in Manhattan. He wasn't part of Terranovas crew right? Was he from Brooklyn? But then again, wasn't Tony Bender out of Greenwich Village?

I guess he's a mystery, but any info would be appreciated.

How did he fit into the NY power structure at the time?

No, I don't think that. Just because someone was involved with organized crime doesn't mean they were inducted into the Cosa Nostra.

Frank Costello was the consigliere when Luciano was boss. So the chart may be more like this:

1931:
Boss: Lucky Luciano
Underboss: Vito Genovese
Consigliere: Saverio Pollaccia (k. 1932)

1932:
B: Luciano
U: Genovese
C: Frank Costello

1936-1945:
B: Luciano
Acting boss: Costello [Joe Valachi says "Chee Gusae" and Willie Moretti were briefly acting bosses around 1936 or so]
U: Genovese
Acting underboss: Willie Moretti
C: Costello
Acting consigliere: Alessandro "Sandino" Pandolfo

1947-1948:
B: Costello
U: Genovese
C: Pandolfo (died in 1948)

1948-1957:
B: Costello
U: Genovese
C: unknown [Michele Miranda was the next known consigliere, but we don't know when he was promoted to this position; we know he was the consigliere under Genovese]

1957-1969:
B: Genovese
U: Gerry Catena
C: Miranda

Hope that helps.

Faithful1, who is this "Chee Gusae"? Strange nickname.

Chee sounds like it's short for Francesco, but Gusae is impossible to figure out. Valachi often mangled names that he had difficulty remembering. It's important to note that he was recalling events from 30 years earlier, and that can be challenging for any of us. Something else: Valachi reported this Chee Gusae in his Senate testimony, but it's not in his book The Real Thing.

You can read what Tom Hunt typed out from The Real Thing here:
http://mafiahistory.us/a023/therealthing.htm

Appreciate the reply Faithful and always value your insights..

Faithful1, thanks for the link.

I had forgotten about another question about this part:



If they had the official underboss and the official consigliere who were free and active, what was the need for the acting underboss and acting consigliere? I thought they put "active" ones only when the "official" ones are in prison or can't be inolved in the mafia activity in that moment for some other reason. Well, Genovese was on the run in Italy from murder charges, but Costello had no problems in that moment, why did they need to support him with an active consigliere?

Edit: or, if Costello was acting boss for the imprisoned Luciano, how could he be the official consigliere at the same time? Why didn't they make Pandolfo official consigilere then?

That's a question I can't answer. I'm not even positive that Pandolfo was the consigliere for the entire Luciano-Costello-Genovese crime family. Our only source is Joe Valachi, and his writing style is very confusing. It seems that Pandolfo was the consigliere, but other times he sounds like Strollo's top adviser alone.

Another question that comes to mind, actually maybe two questions....



Why was Joe Adonis continually passed over? And, do you think there is any chance of resentment between either Costello and Adonis, or Luciano and Adonis over this?


( These are hypothetical questions, so if anyone feels like answering, or has a different take on it, I'd like to hear....)

There were always the rumors that Adonis and Lucky fell out in Italy, over Adonis not stopping Genovese. Maybe he DIDNT do it outta spite?

How do you think Adonis would have taken being passed over for Moretti, Costellos cousin. I know Moretti was a capable, respected guy, but Adonis was a fuckin powerhouse, it doesn't seem possible they would have been able to deny him an administrative post, kinda how Costello couldn't deny Vito the underboss spot once Moretti went. Why Moretti and not Adonis? Why does Pandolfo ( who I'm assuming,wasn't part of the Luciano click) never move up when Lucky and Vito are out of picture? Why does Costello move up and not Adonis? It's something I always found curious....

Also Faithful, while I got your attention, what do you think about this passage, it's about Adonis becoming the NY drug lord of the late thirties, and using the drug money to fund O' Dwyers mayoral campaign......



https://books.google.com/books?id=YMpNBA...erg&f=false






On the Tony Bender thing, was it possible there was a " split" in the
Genovese family, similar to what happened in the Gambinos with Castellano and Dellacroce? With Genovese locked up,and Bender running Vito's " faction", maybe that's why he pegged Pandolfo as consigliere? Because from his vantage point of a soldier, with Bender running things, and Pandolfo advising him, maybe to HIM, Pandolfo WAS the consigliere, as he was performing all the functions of one, as far as he could tell.

Sandino Pandolfo

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/81/1d/d9/811dd903b9f3fed6d1d116863e11c721.jpg

WHERE IS TRIGGER MIKE ?

He died in 1948? Then it is a different person I am thinking of.