By the first settlers, it must be the indians, holy shit they initially just tried to help the fuckers.....the slaves followed...

Africans still exist. I'm not gonna get into a big thing comparing tragedies, but when was the last time you saw an Indian family eating at red lobster? Look up Chris rocks comments about this topic. He spells it out better than I can

Every body that's darker get's screwed in life ... just look at the murderous history after the 1700's

it's ugly to compare the tragedies. It 's true Africans were deported, used as slaves, confined to ghettos etc.
But now for African Americans the situation has changed while the Indians have been hunted, killed, confined to reserves where there are still remain, even with western movies was created the epic of the frontier, and became heroic murder the savage Indians were scalped cowboys, kidnapped women etc.
Definitely the Native Americans were treated and still are treated much worse than the blacks.

Exactly, Furio. I posted something very similar recently in another thread.

Comparing tragedies is never a good idea. Because before you know it, some nitwit will say "no one had it worse than _____." And then it will get ugly. That being said, no one had it worse in America than the American Indians and the enslaved Blacks.

Now I'm Italian American, second generation. And I've heard more than once in my life that "Italians had it just as bad in America as the Blacks did back then." And the correct answer is, No, they didn't. It's not even close.

But Italians pulled themselves up out of poverty in this country, as did most of the other European groups. And that's all that matters.

The Irish were called "white ni**ers" and the blacks were called "smoked Irish".

The Irish were completely ostracized from the best paying jobs and the most prestigious positions but the Irish too pulled themselves out of their rut.

I have to admit, I admire the quiet dignity of Native Americans. They have been really screwed over and left on the margins of society but they carry themselves with a steely resolve and don't wallow in self-pity and go around feeling sorry for themselves like some people.

And of course the Irish can empathize with having their land stolen from them but at least the Irish got it back (most of it).

So much for not comparing tragedies .

Re the Irish: They got here before the Italians, and came here with the benefit of a basic understanding of the language. That's how they were able to secure the civil service jobs for themselves at the turn of the 20th century. By the '20s, no other immigrant group in New York had as much political pull as the Irish.

So as far as all that "Irish need not apply" stuff, yeah, it happened, but by the mid 20th century it was over (and remember, Moe, I'm talking about America, I'm not talking about the whole Irish-English conflict in Europe).

Were they shit on? Yes, much like the Italians and Jews were shit on in America when they got here. But it didn't last 500 years (like the American Indians), and they weren't brought here in chains (like Blacks).

And like we both said, these groups went about their business and pulled themselves up out of poverty in America. And that's what counts .

PB, I echo your analysis and timeline. By the time our Italian ancestors got here, the Irish were in control in several cities of the political, social, and financial life.

It's a challenge to argue that any sort of discrimination is greater than slavery and its aftermath.

I ain't so dumb .

the Indians got treated the worst, history proves that. the irish could speak the English language and they were white. allowing them to assimilate much quicker than other races because of that advantage. most all immigrants suffered some form of discrimination, the Italians have always had the stigma of the mafia, when I was in high school there was a show on television called " the untouchables" about capone and prohibition. I think it did a disservice to the Italian people, it slurred them. and today it would be taken off the air.

That's like asking if the Nazis treated Jews or Gypsies worse. It's pointless.

Well put. Both were treated awful.

At the end of the day, Both groups were treated beyond harsh for hundreds of years. And the immigrants of yesterday, my way of saying the main immigrants from the turn of the 20th century ( Italians, Irish , Jews ) also had it bad for a few years when they arrived ... Only because the w.a.s.p's ( good Ol' boys ) didn't consider neither of them equal either but it was from a cultural, language and class stand point. The rich in them days didn't mingle with the poor. But Those immigrants still were white Caucasians with European backgrounds. the American dream was a motivational tool to use to step up from the harsh conditions they lived and become a success in a country where most believed that america was all glitter and gold!

Look at what the Irish accomplished. They monopolized public services. Look at the Jews. They monopolized both private and commercial finance sectors, banking and trade. and the Italians monopolized infrastructure ( construction, land scaping ). They also became very successful small business owners, many in family owned mom and pop operations. the immigrants of today tho ....... Smh Nothin like the three groups I just mentioned. Blame the social service policies from the liberal democratics for that.

vinny, long ago you could have mom and pop stores where you lived, whats always killed small businesses is taxes and regulations. and the people that came from Europe and had pushcarts never had to put up with taxes, and government interference, such as discrimination lawsuits. those killed many, many small businesses. the old immigrants of yesterday could never make it with todays taxes and laws.

PB is of course right from the beginning that there should be no comparison on tragedies. The reality of it all ladies & gentleman is that if your ancestors migrated to this country (freely or not) before WW2 then we have enough downtrodden stories to keep sink the Titanic four times.