Hey guys, I'm from Pittsburgh, as you can see from my info to the left. Before I get into what I want to talk about, please don't call me a fan boy for making this post. It has absolutely nothing to do with that, just a question asked and a friendly debate with the more knowledgeable New York guys, and the few here who have close information about Pittsburgh.

As we all know, according to law enforcement and everyone else, the Pittsburgh family is virtually extinct. The Feds put the final nail in the coffin over 20 years ago and I believe that Chucky Porter's was the last federal mob trial here, and that was in the early 90's. Not my main question, but another off the top of my head, for the guys in the know about Pittsburgh: why was Porter allowed to be inducted anyway? Obviously, his last name signifies that he isn't full-blooded Italian - or am I wrong, and possibly it was changed?

Sonny Ciancutti is supposedly the last made man alive in Pittsburgh, other than Porter and Strollo, who both became rats. (Was Joey Rosa ever made? I believe he'd be in his mid 50's now, but he also became a rat.) Anyway, to my main topic of debate...and before I get to it, I know that New York could care less about what's happening in other mob cities in 2014, let alone Pittsburgh. Ciancutti is an old man, 82 or 83 I believe, and some say he still has ties to some bookmaking and gambling in the area, but it isn't really "organized crime" or mob related. From what I've read/heard, the New York families haven't recognized Pittsburgh as viable, or any of the bosses, since Michael Genovese passed. Which brings me to my main point - say Ciancutti didn't want his last memories of the Pittsburgh LCN as a dying, possibly extinct ship; and whether recognized by NY or not as a viable boss, didn't want to be the last name associated with a defunct family. Maybe Sonny decides he wants to induct some of the guys that got proposed to be made in the late 80's/early 90's by Genovese (if they are still alive), but that never happened because Porter became a rat and nobody got made after that. Sonny also probably has some younger guys around him as well, and I'm sure there are younger associates from the 80's and 90's that are still involved with bookmaking (and Sonny), and possibly guys who have bloodlines to the remnants of the Youngstown faction.

So, say Sonny maybe wants to induct 10 guys or so, and wants his last legacy to be trying to rebuild the family, something Genovese wanted to do in the 90's but never succeeded at. This is where New York comes in - would they care at that point what's happening in Pittsburgh, and would they recognize it as LCN? Would it be a viable family to them, or would they basically see it as some bums in Pittsburgh doing things together, but they still aren't the "real deal"? In the sense that, if Ciancutti succeeded and re-built the family, would NY recognize Pittsburgh/him as boss, and see them as a continuation of the LaRocca-Genovese organization that's been dead for some time now?

Again, it's all hypothetical for the point of debate. My last question, this time for some of the guys I know that are in the know about Pittsburgh: do you think Pittsburgh would have remained more viable had "Jo Jo" Pecora not been imprisoned, and taken over after LaRocca's death instead of Genovese? I've heard that LaRocca had Pecora tagged as his successor, but then he went to prison and Genovese basically became the boss by default. Also, had it not been for Chucky Porter, do you think Pittsburgh would have remained active longer than they did? I've heard that Genovese loved Porter simply for all the drug profits he was bringing in - such a shame, because that's not true LCN, and it brought the downfall of the family, just like the old time gangsters predicted about drug trafficking decades ago.

Again, it's all hypothetical for the point of debate. My last question, this time for some of the guys I know that are in the know about Pittsburgh: do you think Pittsburgh would have remained more viable had "Jo Jo" Pecora not been imprisoned, and taken over after LaRocca's death instead of Genovese? I've heard that LaRocca had Pecora tagged as his successor, but then he went to prison and Genovese basically became the boss by default. Also, had it not been for Chucky Porter, do you think Pittsburgh would have remained active longer than they did? I've heard that Genovese loved Porter simply for all the drug profits he was bringing in - such a shame, because that's not true LCN, and it brought the downfall of the family, just like the old time gangsters predicted about drug trafficking decades ago.

IMHO, along with most others from those days with first hand knowledge, things would have been very different and much better with Jo Jo running the show.

It was no secret that Joe's time in Lexington forced John to name Michael. Although Michael was more of a businessman, Jo Jo was "old school, no drugs, and a man of the people.

Joe was, without question, John's first choice.

Thanks, I was really hoping you would be one to reply! Your knowledge on the former goings-on in Pittsburgh are fantastic. From everything I've ever seen, read, and heard, everyone has give the same unanimous answer about Jo Jo as you have. Do you think the future of LCN in Pittsburgh would have been drastically different had Pecora not been imprisoned and succeeded LaRocca? Do you think he would have made the same mistake that Genovese did by inducting Porter and being blinded by his drug profits?

Simple answer - NO! As I said: Jo Jo was "old school" meaning no drugs.

Michael only cared about dollars. Thus his affection for Chuckie. That was indeed the beginning of the end!

Thanks for your answers again, Friend of Henry.

Such a shame that one mistake like that can ultimately snowball out of control into many more bad mistakes, and eventually dismantle the family.

You may not know the answer to this, but I've read that Chucky Porter's mother was Michael Genovese's sister. Is that true? If so, maybe it could also be another explanation (other than drug money and Genovese's greed) as to why Porter would end up being inducted into the family.

Another question for you, although one you may not want to answer. Was Henry really "close" with Chucky?

I pulled up an old Pittsburgh Press article from 1989 on Google, that claimed Henry and Louis Raucci were two of Porter's top associates, as well as being considered "major earners" in the family.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=11...pg=6975,5200204

I'm not sure that it matters what NY thinks any longer due to their own problems...I don't think that they really care about the other families....unless of course they can make some money with them. Sonny is the boss, and the gambling/book/sharking is still in tact..I respectfully disagree with some of the other opinions here, though they are really great posters. One thing that differed in Pittsburgh from the other families, was that they made very very few members, and instead, relied on a tremendous # of associates to do the usual grunt work of low level soldiers...those associates are still around and are conducting business as usual...their hooks into unions and construction is largely gone, but the bread and butter LCN schemes have never stopped...not in the different sections of Pittsburgh, nor in Youngstown or WV..I am not certain about NY (ie.Jamestown or Rochester), or Erie.

Old School - I also read the same thing in one of the PA Crime Commission reports in the early 1990's, about Pittsburgh differing from the other families in such a way that they rely so heavily on associates.

You seem to be in the know about Pittsburgh. I've also read some of the other posts here about Pittsburgh, and I can say that I probably disagree on some of them as well - but definitely not all of them. I would agree with what you say, that the bookmaking and loan sharking is still very much existent, and even possibly organized. But, with the FBI not bringing a mob case here against anyone in nearly 20 years and basically declaring the family "extinct", I'm not sure if I believe how much of the remnants of an organization are still left here, other than Sonny.

In your opinion, do the guys that are left still function as an organized LCN family and kick up to Sonny? Is he recognized as a boss, or just the last surviving member of a now possibly defunct organization, who 'fell' into the defacto boss title? Or, is it basically just a bunch of guys doing their own thing and kicking up occasionally (or not at all), as most others have suggested here?

King...the FBI could care less what these guys are doing, that's why you haven't seen a case. After the early 90's there still was some heat, but after 9/11, that all changed, as it did in every other city. The FBI doesn't have the resources (outside of NYC), to spend on a greatly weakened LCN. However, the remnants are very much still "organized" and functional. Their power, however, has been decimated. Their influence on unions and construction has been greatly diminished, however, when it comes to the bread and butter LCN schemes, they are very much still present, and active and still kicking up. Since Pittsburgh associates always functioned effectively as made men (some obviously with more power than others), nothing has changed, and possibly some have since been made by Sonny. Bobby I, though up in age, is still active and wields some power. Some of what has been posted in regards to Pittsburgh on this site is very accurate and good info, but some of it is quite out dated, because it relies heavily on law enforcement info, which, like I said, is near non-existent in its intel of present activity and players.

Oldschool, thanks for all the info, I appreciate it. Nice to talk peaceful here with somebody without all of the arguments and childish behavior because everybody thinks their opinion has to be the 'right' one.

Everything about the FBI makes sense, as I've heard that the same thing was happening in New York after 9/11. But do you think the Pittsburgh PD would be making an attempt to break some of this up? You know how they love to make an arrest and blow it up and exaggerate it to be something it's not. I'm sure they'd love to get their hands on a mob figure. I know that not all of these guys would be operating within the actual scope of Pittsburgh, and most of them are in the suburbs outside the city and even farther away, but I'd imagine law enforcement would still be on their ass if the LCN was still operating in a functioning, organized way.

Do you believe that they still operate with a formal, structured mafia hierarchy? With so few made guys, I would think it would be almost pointless to have an administration with an underboss and consigliere. Or is it just Sonny, and some capo's who are running the street crews full of associates? That would make more sense to me.

Care to provide any evidence of this?

Anything apart from 'I know' indicating there still exists any organisation whatsover?

Not backing him up, but to be fair, how would one provide any evidence? The only way you could do that would be with newspaper articles or a recent case (or prosecution). There have been no mob trials in Pittsburgh since the late 1990's. I don't know if they DO or DON'T still continue to function as an organized family, that's why I was asking questions. Most of the "experts" here believe that the Pittsburgh family is dead, and I wouldn't completely agree or disagree with them. There are things that can support both sides of the argument. However, like he pointed out in his previous post, most everyone here just goes off of recycled information provided by the FBI some 15-20 years ago.

There are definitely guys still around that are remnants of the former Pittsburgh LCN organization, and they are operating in some sort of way. Ciancutti and Iannelli are both old, but still involved in gambling. There was just a bust last year that involved a few of them and many of the sons and younger generations of family associates. Do they still operate as a family? I have no idea. I can agree that their numbers are definitely low, but again, they have always had a low number of made men and relied heavily on associates.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody. I just don't know how one could provide evidence. And besides, a newspaper article or outdated police information from over a decade ago isn't an end all, be all.

My issue is simply this, the overwhelming general consensus, from 'experts' to FBI is that there is no organised LCN operating in Pittsburgh.

Now some guy comes along stating there definitely is an organisation, making money and kicking up.

Why should I believe him? I'm not saying he's wrong but give me some evidence or reason to take his singular opinion over the vastly overwhelming general consensus.

And I'll need more than a 'because I know'.

Hey, I agree with what you're saying. You definitely have a point. Law enforcement has been saying that the Pittsburgh LCN family has been defunct for quite some time now.

And there is definitely nothing that is backing up his claims that the organization still exists and continues to function as a typical LCN family. Maybe he knows more than we don't, or knows somebody that's related to somebody in the know.

There are definitely still some of the older members and associates around and they are still involved in some things. Whether that translates to them still working as a 'family', I don't know. Like I said, I don't agree or disagree with anybody or their opinions here. I just wanted to ask some questions and get different opinions.

Hope you didn't feel like I was disagreeing with you or siding with him.

Not at all.

The issue with boards such as this and concerning subject matter such as this it can be very hard to ascertain the truth. As most of what is posted cannot be generally verified the majority of information on here is conjecture.

The problem is this leaves the door open for people to take advantage and insert false truths. And these often cannot be easily disproved.

So it's generally the best course to keep an open mind, weigh the evidence and usually, the common consensus is the best one.

You stick around here long enough and every few months a new poster 'in the know' or 'connected' comes along swearing that Buffalo, Tampa, New Orleans or as in this case, Pittaburgh is a vast unknown (except to them) LCN conspiracy.

It gets old quick and it's frustrating as it distorts the truth and leaves many genuine posters with false impressions.

If you read any of my postings, all that I am stating is that the remnants are still here and still operating. The power that the family once wielded is gone, but to say that it doesn't exist is simply wrong. The "experts" to which you so glowingly refer are relying on information that is at least 15 years old, and coming from an FBI agent that hasn't been around since at least 1995. I have no direct knowledge of the other cities that you mention.
But, if you are asking for direct "proof", then we must take down most of the postings on this site..there are no formal anouncements that the local LCN is up and operating and having a grand opening.
I am not here to get into a squirting match, I am simply stating what my experience and knowledge has been, and nothing more.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, I hope you didn't take it that way. Like I said, I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anybody. I just simply wanted to hear some different opinions.

And I'm 100% with you on the so called experts. I posted that same thing in one of my previous responses. And one situation where I do agree with you is on the whole "proof" thing. There is no way to prove anything, other than newspaper articles or what law enforcement decides to tell us. And again, like I said before, newspaper reports are not an end all, be all.

I had the same disagreement with somebody on another site discussing the hierarchy in Philadelphia. This person wanted references to allow me to post about who was who at the top of the family. And I was thinking, what can you really know about LCN, if you are looking for a reference on who is filling what positions. As you said, the mob does not put out press releases when they decide to promote or demote someone.

True they are still around, and not dead at all.

Be careful what you post.

There are people here who claim they are "researchers" or so called "experts" but they are frauds. A certain person who claims to be a friend is one of them.

You also will have people who claim they were "friends" but in actuality they were not at all, and if they were they would not be writing about it online.

Henry reported directly to Chucky Porter until Porter went away and then he became Mike Genovese's right hand. The Pittsburgh family was still going strong even after Porter went away. They still had Youngstown, Altoona and all of Western PA. The family suffered the biggest blow when the Youngstown contingent was indicted and then Lenny Strollo decided to cooperate in 1999. I know for a fact that Mike Genovese was still receiving weekly envelopes until the day he died by some of the aging members and associates. Some of the key guys who were kicking up to Mike from 2000-2006 were Sonny Ciancutti, John Bazzano Jr.and Sonny Amato. Key "high ranking" associates who were still kicking up were The WIlliams brothers (Sal, Junior & Eugene), Bobby I, Frank Unis Jr., Alfred Corbo, the Sabatini Brothers (John, Robert & Gerald), Joe Perfette, Auggie Ferrone, Manny Xenakis and Steve Hatzimbes.

If Henry and Zebo is one and the same, then we agree. In fact we agree about all that you have posted.

There is NO structured mafia in Pittsburgh any longer, it died with Mike Genovese. However, there are former associates who are still into gambling. Nobody is kicking up to anybody, the associates operate in their respected territory but not nearly to the level of which they had in the past.

There is indeed no formally structured family there anymore. Anyone who claims otherwise is either lying or simply delusional. Even the highest estimates have the family at no more than a few made guys left at most.

That said, there has continued to be activity there over the past 10-15 years, mostly involving remnants of the family.

The most recent was the big video poker bust that involved Ronald "Porky" Melocchi Sr. (the ring leader and owner of Back Alley Vending), Jeffrey Risha (a bookmaker who had been involved in a 2001 Pittsburgh LCN gambling case), Kirk Mollica (son of late Pittsburgh LCN associate Primo Mollica), and Rodney Iannelli (son of Pittsburgh LCN associate Robert "Bobby I" Iannelli). The charges also involved bookmaking and numbers.

In 2006 you had the video poker and bookmaking bust involving associate John "Duffy" Conley.

In 2003 you had 15 people including Junior Williams get busted for running a numbers operation.

In 2001 LIUNA Local 1058 was put under oversight for ongoing influence by organized crime.

And in 2000, mob member John "Sonny" Ciancutti and 14 others were busted for bookmaking, numbers, and video poker machines.

Pittsburgh is a good example of how we can see some mob-related activity in an area (usually involving illegal gambling) even after there is no formally structured family left.

Maybe it sounds like a newbie question, but is Porter his real name? Is he half-Italian? I know there have been cases of only half-Italians being made, but it's usually on the father's side.

Yeah, Porter was his real name. He was Italian on his mother's side.

Sonny gave a lot of deepthroat blowjobs to the administration back in the day so he became very powerful after that.

I'm well aware of these indictments but thanks for posting Ivy. And also, his name is Thomas "Sonny" Ciancutti, not John. He had a brother Louis who died in the early 1980's and was involved with their cousins with the last name Golden, who were into drug trafficking. Sonny took over all of Gabriel Mannarino's rackets after Mannarino died in July of 1980.

Most of the guys who got pinched in the latest gambling bustout have already received slaps on the wrists. Iannelli, Mollica and Jeff Risha are however, serious bookmakers who bring in alot of action.

Highly doubt it, but if that's what you believe...then so be it.

Porter was first cousin's with Rocco Viola, as his Mom was a Viola.

Personally, I do not believe it would have made a difference if Jo Jo was named boss as Big John originally wanted to. Keep in mind that Jo Jo died in April of 1987 and Michael Genovese lived until October of 2006. So even if Jo Jo took over in December of 1984 for Big John, Michael still would have been made boss by 1987 after Jo Jo died.

Now, if Jo Jo had lived well into his 80's, I believe it would have been an entirely different landscape. Some of it for the better, some of it for the worse. Nobody earned with Jo Jo, he kept it all to himself...Mike Genovese let eveybody eat...and that went a long way with the members.

As much as I really loved Jo Jo I believe that what you said is very true. I recall, much to your surprise, that Joe was not the most generous in sharing with his Crew. In fact I know I told you that Zebo never made any money with Jo Jo. That he only started to make money with Michael. Everybody's got to eat and Jo Jo didn't feed them very much ;-(