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Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803902
09/20/14 02:31 PM
09/20/14 02:31 PM
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IlLupo77 Offline
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Scarpa. Hands down. He burnt 3 bosses, provided the PC for the Commission case, and passed off information for more than 30 years. Most of Valachi's info and testimony came from Greg Scarpa's 302s that had been going to Hoover a few years before Valachi was on radar.

If I remember correctly, Scarpa was THE FIRST informant EVER for the FBI. Guys had rolled and testified in cases before connected to OC, obviously, but usually only in cases that they were involved in, and on their co-dee's. Scarpa's intel is actually what got Hoover to actually admit that there was indeed a "LA" Cosa Nostra operating in America.

Last edited by IlLupo77; 09/20/14 02:31 PM.
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803913
09/20/14 03:49 PM
09/20/14 03:49 PM
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Binnie_Coll Offline OP
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Binnie_Coll  Offline OP
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iilupo77, you got me confused, are you saying scarpa was an fbi snitch before 1963. { valachi came out in 1963} ive never heard that before, if what you say is true, then indeed scarpa did major damage.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803915
09/20/14 04:37 PM
09/20/14 04:37 PM
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IlLupo77 Offline
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Yeah. Scarpa was a documented rat in 62… He put in work on the MISBURN cases for the Feds in 64. Scarpa's name is on 302 Intel before Valachi flipped. It is thought that Valachi's answers ware coached during his hearing, using info taken from Scarpa's 302's in order to protect Greg as an asset. I've read that Valachi was actually pretty low level and didn't really know shit, but the Feds just put him on parade to further their agenda.

Last edited by IlLupo77; 09/20/14 04:38 PM.
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803917
09/20/14 04:42 PM
09/20/14 04:42 PM
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IlLupo77 Offline
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If you google Scarpa vs. Valachi you can find some relevant info for you to read up on. I gotta' bounce or I'd copypasta' some info for you.

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: IlLupo77] #803919
09/20/14 05:01 PM
09/20/14 05:01 PM
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mulberry Offline
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Originally Posted By: IlLupo77
Scarpa. Hands down. He burnt 3 bosses, provided the PC for the Commission case, and passed off information for more than 30 years. Most of Valachi's info and testimony came from Greg Scarpa's 302s that had been going to Hoover a few years before Valachi was on radar.

If I remember correctly, Scarpa was THE FIRST informant EVER for the FBI. Guys had rolled and testified in cases before connected to OC, obviously, but usually only in cases that they were involved in, and on their co-dee's. Scarpa's intel is actually what got Hoover to actually admit that there was indeed a "LA" Cosa Nostra operating in America.


Some of Valachi's answer might have come from Scarpa. Scarpa became a snitch around the same time Valachi flipped. Valachi had been a made man for 30 years, while Scarpa had been made for around 5 years. He fought in the Castellammarese War and was a made man when Scarpa was wearing diapers. As far as Scarpa being the first snitch, that is likely not true. I'm sure there were dry snitches even back in the 1920's. He obviously did alot of damage during those 30 years, but those photos were only a small part of the evidence that put the bosses away. The wiretaps were the bulk of the evidence. Without the wiretaps, all they had was a bunch of photos of old men going into and out of a house.

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: domwoods74] #803920
09/20/14 05:03 PM
09/20/14 05:03 PM
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mulberry Offline
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Originally Posted By: domwoods74
This time they defo got it right


What makes you think he knew more than Gravano, Lonardo, or D'Arco?

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Beanshooter] #803921
09/20/14 05:06 PM
09/20/14 05:06 PM
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mulberry Offline
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Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
That was another of Pistone's exageration Bronx. Besides supposedly taking down the Pizza Connection, he claims that he took down the Commission case too. It was Scarpa who provided that info to the Feds. And please don't get me started on the 250 people that his case supposedly took down.


The info for the Commission Case came from wiretaps. The photos were icing on the cake, but it was the wiretaps at the Palma Boys, Castellano's house, and the Jag that took them down. The permission for the wiretaps came from bugging other mobsters and informants. No one person was responsible for the Commission Case.

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803925
09/20/14 06:27 PM
09/20/14 06:27 PM
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Binnie_Coll Offline OP
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mulberry, just reading {the five families, by raab} raab goes into the commission case in detail, guiliani build the case from the sources you mentioned, also he used bonnanos description of a commission from his book man of honor, a lot went into that case, and you are correct in stating that "no one person was responsible for the case" it was the first rico case, and the beginning of the end for the families.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803928
09/20/14 06:58 PM
09/20/14 06:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 210
philly
SonnyL Offline
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philly
Originally Posted By: Binnie_Coll
mulberry, just reading {the five families, by raab} raab goes into the commission case in detail, guiliani build the case from the sources you mentioned, also he used bonnanos description of a commission from his book man of honor, a lot went into that case, and you are correct in stating that "no one person was responsible for the case" it was the first rico case, and the beginning of the end for the families.

It might have been the first big RICO case but it wasn't the first one ever for the mob. There was a RICO case in Philly in 1981 most of the defendants wound up being killed so it didn't really matter much I think the only guys who actually went to prison over it were Chickie Ciancaglini and Harry Riccobene.

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803929
09/20/14 07:00 PM
09/20/14 07:00 PM
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Binnie_Coll Offline OP
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I guess I should have said the most highly visible rico case at the time.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: mulberry] #803935
09/20/14 09:01 PM
09/20/14 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: mulberry
Originally Posted By: Beanshooter
That was another of Pistone's exageration Bronx. Besides supposedly taking down the Pizza Connection, he claims that he took down the Commission case too. It was Scarpa who provided that info to the Feds. And please don't get me started on the 250 people that his case supposedly took down.


The info for the Commission Case came from wiretaps. The photos were icing on the cake, but it was the wiretaps at the Palma Boys, Castellano's house, and the Jag that took them down. The permission for the wiretaps came from bugging other mobsters and informants. No one person was responsible for the Commission Case.

Except maybe Joe Bonanno's ghostwriter lol.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: IlLupo77] #803936
09/20/14 09:07 PM
09/20/14 09:07 PM
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Posts: 1,262
>>>OVA THERE
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>>>OVA THERE
Originally Posted By: IlLupo77
I gotta' bounce or I'd copypasta' some info for you.


Just go lite on the sauce for me.


"Jersey...It's where my story begins."
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: mulberry] #803957
09/21/14 04:34 AM
09/21/14 04:34 AM
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Phoenix, Arizona
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Originally Posted By: mulberry
Originally Posted By: IlLupo77
Scarpa. Hands down. He burnt 3 bosses, provided the PC for the Commission case, and passed off information for more than 30 year. Most of Valachi's info and testimony came from Greg Scarpa's 302s that had been going to Hoover a few years before Valachi was on radar.

If I remember correctly, Scarpa was THE FIRST informant EVER for the FBI. Guys had rolled and testified in cases before connected to OC, obviously, but usually only in cases that they were involved in, and on their co-dee's. Scarpa's intel is actually what got Hoover to actually admit that there was indeed a "LA" Cosa Nostra operating in America.


Some of Valachi's answer might have come from Scarpa. Scarpa became a snitch around the same time Valachi flipped. Valachi had been a made man for 30 years, while Scarpa had been made for around 5 years. He fought in the Castellammarese War and was a made man when Scarpa was wearing diapers. As far as Scarpa being the first snitch, that is likely not true. I'm sure there were dry snitches even back in the 1920's. He obviously did alot of damage during those 30 years, but those photos were only a small part of the evidence that put the bosses away. The wiretaps were the bulk of the evidence. Without the wiretaps, all they had was a bunch of photos of old men going into and out of a house.


Have you read Deal with the devil? Lance Breaks it down pretty good on the whole issue. Scarpa gave the entire structure of the families, around a year prior to Valachi coming out, per the FBI's own documentation. Scarpa was responsible for the Colombo family downfall. He inadvertently helped get Persico in as the boss, set up anyone who he viewed as a rival, just destroyed that family. Also they would not of been able to get the wiretaps without the information that Scarpa had provided in the commission's case.

Like others have said, it's not like he flipped and gave a one time testimony of inside information. This guy had 30 years of doing nickel and dime shit, but it added up. He fucked over generations of gangsters. The entire blueprint of what the feds used for the mafia in new york was provided by Scarpa in 1962 at the very latest.

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Walkner] #803980
09/21/14 09:08 AM
09/21/14 09:08 AM
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mulberry Offline
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Originally Posted By: Walkner


Have you read Deal with the devil? Lance Breaks it down pretty good on the whole issue. Scarpa gave the entire structure of the families, around a year prior to Valachi coming out, per the FBI's own documentation. Scarpa was responsible for the Colombo family downfall. He inadvertently helped get Persico in as the boss, set up anyone who he viewed as a rival, just destroyed that family. Also they would not of been able to get the wiretaps without the information that Scarpa had provided in the commission's case.

Like others have said, it's not like he flipped and gave a one time testimony of inside information. This guy had 30 years of doing nickel and dime shit, but it added up. He fucked over generations of gangsters. The entire blueprint of what the feds used for the mafia in new york was provided by Scarpa in 1962 at the very latest.



The permission for the wiretaps came from many sources, not just Scarpa. Any book is self-serving and will view everything with that author's bias to make it more dynamic and exciting. The Castellano wiretaps were a result of bugging Angelo Ruggiero's phone and the info they got on DeMeo linking that crew to Castellano. Part of it was from Pistone. Some from Joe Bananno's book. Like I said, Scarpa was probably the most damaging informant who didn't testify, but giving him 100% credit for the Commission Case is ridiculous.

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #803988
09/21/14 09:36 AM
09/21/14 09:36 AM
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Kokomo
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Beanshooter Offline
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Vincent (Fish) Cafaro was close to Fat Tony and he did a lot of damage

Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #804020
09/21/14 12:18 PM
09/21/14 12:18 PM
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Posts: 3,021
far, northwest
Binnie_Coll Offline OP
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Binnie_Coll  Offline OP
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mulberry, as I have posted before, raab lays it all out in his book, "five families" there is a entire chapter on "quack quack" {angelo ruggerio} and the tapes were very incriminating for the family. they helped the commission case a lot. scarpas big mouth didn't have much to do with the commission case.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #804022
09/21/14 12:28 PM
09/21/14 12:28 PM
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manchester uk
domwoods74 Offline
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The bugging of ruggiero's daughters phone had far reaching implications for the mob , they not only bugged his house once but twice . They bugged his first house and he moved they bugged his second house aswel , he had it swept while the Feds were listening . They just turned the bugs off and put them bak on again

Last edited by domwoods74; 09/21/14 12:29 PM.
Re: who was the damaging informant in o. c. history [Re: Binnie_Coll] #804023
09/21/14 12:44 PM
09/21/14 12:44 PM
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Binnie_Coll Offline OP
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yeah, angelo should have been smarter, if he wouldn't have died of cancer, he stood a good chance of getting clipped. the tapes put dellacroce in the middle with castellano, he wanted them, and angelo told neil { at neils house when he was sick with cancer} that he would never give up the tapes. raab in "five families" is all over the ruggerio fiasco.



" watch what you say around this guy, he's got a big mouth" sam giancana to an outfit soldier about frank Sinatra. [ from the book "my way"
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