Reading the court testimony transcripts from Mikey Scars, it appears Gotti was right to criticize Gravano for instigating the murders and being greedy. Scars agreed that Gravano was making up stories to get everybody whacked and take over their businesses and unions. Of course, Gotti should have never allowed the murders. There was even a part about Gravano trying to take over Jimmy Brown's garbage rackets.

Suppose the Gambinos weren't taken down by Gotti's big mouth. What would have been the end result of Gravano's greed? Would Gotti have finally stood up to him and whacked him or would he allow Gravano to take over more of the family rackets? Who would have won the war between Jimmy Brown and The Bull?

Jimmy had all the horses. Plus, he would have had the backing of the Westside through his partnership in the paper association. And I've always believed that Chin would have gotten to Gotti anyway, and backed Jimmy and Danny as boss and underboss. If that all happened, things would probably be a lot different today.

Who took over Jimmy's rackets lucrative rackets when he went away?

Joey Francolino I think it was. At least Failla´s garbage removal. And the irony is that Francolino was a former Gravano crew member.

In a way, Gotti's hands were tied. I'm sure Gotti was very aware of what Gravano was doing as shown in the tapes

But there were reasons why Gotti didn't act on them

Apart from being top guy in the family, Sammy had a big crew and was a big earner therefore to take him out wouldn't do Gotti much good

Not to mention, I'm sure Gotti was aware there were still many in the family who weren't happy with him taking out Paul Ie Castellano side. So by losing Gravano, that's one ally down in an event of a war

Which relates to the Westside, again Gotti was aware the Chin was causing problems and you need a guy like Sammy around just incase

so it was a question of tolerating what Sammy was getting up to or putting a complete stop to it which he didn't

The worse irony is that Sammy Bull ordered Tommy Spinelli dead, then testified against Jimmy in regards to that very murder.

And HK's right about Francolino. He got very wealthy in a very short time after Jimmy's conviction.

He was scared to death of Sammy and his power...that is purely why he never even brought the subject up to Sammy's face.

Failla had a hold on that racket (Gambinos share) for almost 30 years. How long did it take for Francolino to ruin it? 3 years? Lol!

Yup. That's why I said a very short time. But the nitwit did make a score .

I agree Chin wanted Gotti dead at one point, but by the 1990's he had too many problems with the Windows Case and Gas flipping. His days on the streets was on borrowed time with all the informants like Leonetti, Savino, D'Arco etc the feds had lined up to testify against him. The last thing he needed was a high profile murder and potential war.

If they had killed Gotti in that car bomb or some time in the 1980's, then things would have been very different. I wonder what would have happened to Gravano and the other conspirators.

Did't Francolino Jr take over after Sr went away?

joe f. was involved with fialla in the garbage assoc. not just after..he was being groomed to take over

well said..john was in a rough spot,but i think ,listening to the tapes he was pushing loc to go along with getting rid of graven

sammy did not order spinelli killed..jimmy did

They took the most powefull family and ruined it.

Well, PB's "Gotti dies" scenario would have relied on all the stuff you mentioned not happening.

allie shades was pinched with him also.they were pinched in the state. L.E. crippled them with guiliani and the whole private sanitation biz

Bronx quote: "sammy did not order spinelli killed..jimmy did"

So who ordered Spinelli to be killed?

tommy s. was fialla's cousin and in his crew,tommy testified in the GJ. fialla had his crew kill tommy. going to the boss first..

From Mikey's testimony it seemed like Joe was Sammy's guy and Jimmy had a problem with him being put in there

graven took him from fialla

Thank you Bronx. Enjoy reading your insightful posts.

Exactly.

Mulberry raises a fair point, though. Vince DID have his hands full in the early '90s. But that assumption would also be based on the assumption that Vince was the ONLY Westside guy who wanted to hit Gotti. And I don't believe that he was.

Don't forget which crew was tasked with that hit in the first place. Bobby Manna's gonna die in jail because of those tapes. But don't forget, the guy who inherited that crew was pretty capable himself .

thank you.. i guess right every once in awhile

On the rare occasion that I'm right about something, my wife is fond of saying that even a broken clock is right twice a day .

she is a bright woman..humble statement pizzaboy just like your handle

Takedown: The Fall of the Last Mafia Empire

From Publishers Weekly
In 1992, New York City detective Cowan was investigating a truck bombing at a Brooklyn garbage transfer station when the "mobbed-up" thugs responsible for the crime showed up to further intimidate Sal Benedetto, the facility's owner. Thinking fast, Benedetto introduced Cowan as his "Cousin Danny," thereby averting disaster-and allowing Cowen entry into a landmark investigation in which he went undercover as Danny Benedetto to expose the Mafia's billion-dollar monopoly of the city waste removal business. By the time the grand jury indictments were handed down, Cowan had spent years on the case, helped put away dozens of mobsters and incurred lasting emotional trauma from the strain of leading a double life. Recalling it here in vivid, riveting detail, Cowan (aided by journalist Century) reconstructs a time when he was deeper undercover in the garbage "cartel" than any city cop had ever been, with the close calls to prove it. Whether he's boosting a wiseguy's car to plant a bug, navigating confrontations with goons wielding two-by-fours and baseball bats or suffering through a Mafia Christmas party with a malfunctioning radio transmitter burning into his leg, Cowan's exploits play on the page like scenes from a well-mounted mob movie. The Hollywood producer with the rights to his story won't have to spend a penny juicing it up: this is a well-told, gripping tale of a heroic investigation.
Copyright 2002 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Anybody read this book

Funny, halzogbe. I just mentioned that book on another site. Here's what I had to say about it:

That was a decent book, but they overstated Phil Barretti's importance by a mile. And the cop, Rick Cowan, really wanted you to believe that he was the second coming of Donnie Brasco. But that seems to be the case with most of these guys who dramatize their life stories from BOTH sides of the law. I swear to God, I don't know whose egos are bigger, the cops or the crooks .

I spent 25 years in that Local (IBT Local 813), which covers private sanitation and funeral service employees here in New York. 813 also covers some airport jobs and car rental agencies, but to a much smaller degree. Anyway, I worked on the funeral side of the local, but I crossed over quite a bit because I was a business agent for my last seven years on the job. And I'm no mob apologist, but Sal Benedetto was a whiny little bitch who got himself jammed up because he put himself in a position to be jammed up. Then he ran to the law like a scared little girl.

But like I said, the book was a pretty good read. They got a lot of it right about Ponte and the waste paper association. Francolino, too.

"Takedown" is one of my favorite mob books - and I've read most of them. A must-read for anyone interested in the people and events mentioned in this thread.
Also - Mikey Scars' testimony (the first part at least) is one of my favorite things written about the mob as well. The part where he says "I ate it," in regards to his brother's death is really intense.