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conflict between mafia families and street gangs #784499
06/18/14 09:17 AM
06/18/14 09:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 315
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SimonChen Offline OP
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SimonChen  Offline OP
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anyone knows any conflict between street gangs and mafia? i wonder that can a well organized mafia family take down a street gang? i heard sth about black gangs in Halem went into wars with the Dutch, but it seems that they werent able to compare with the families.

Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: SimonChen] #784585
06/18/14 04:16 PM
06/18/14 04:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 82
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The Black mob in Philly pretty much ran (roughly) the west side of Broad Street for many years with few Italians or Jews willing to try anything over there. The few that did tended to get beatings. The Blacks made more money too.

They say the kids (JBM, Merlino) ended up working together.

Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: SimonChen] #784603
06/18/14 06:07 PM
06/18/14 06:07 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 3,005
Mississippi - 662
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BlackFamily Offline
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The closest conflict that I found along my research is Chicago Outfit and Black P. Stones depending on what actually happen. But generally as mentioned in previous topics they don't cross each other path. When they do it's mutual gains ($$$) and rarely altercations.

There been quite some reports of the Outfit being pushed out the protection racket by Stones. ( use the search to find that topic) But there was some form or attempt of a financial partnership between the two in the early 70s. This is probably the earliest collaboration of LCN & modern street gangs.

Furthermore, it's a tiresome debate here. A crime family have no reason to "wipe out" a street gang and its not that simple either. Street gangs vary by membership , structure , and sophistication. Only type of groups that are somewhat comparable to LCN families are Bikers & Prison gangs.

Last edited by BlackFamily; 06/18/14 06:09 PM.

If you think you are too small to make a difference, you haven't spend the night with a mosquito.
- African Proverb
Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: SimonChen] #784621
06/18/14 10:10 PM
06/18/14 10:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
furio_from_naples  Offline

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
Here a good example,the Albanians gang that tried to take the Gambinos business.

http://gangstersinc.ning.com/profiles/blogs/albanian-boss-alex-rudaj



By David Amoruso
Posted on August 26, 2009
Copyright © www.gangstersinc.nl

The criminal organization led by Albanian gangster Alex Rudaj called itself the Sixth Family. They viewed themselves as being on the same level as New York’s five La Cosa Nostra families. But after a ten year run they turned out to be nothing more than a glorified street crew.

Alex Rudaj started out as an associate of the Gambino Crime Family. He is not the only Albanian to do so. The Albanians come from similar backgrounds as the Italian-American and Italian born Mafiosi, and have no problem fitting in. The mob mainly uses the Albanians as enforcers and hit men. While the Albanians were getting their hands dirty, the Italian mobsters were far away from any incriminating bloodshed, no doubt counting the money they made by murdering a rival.

By the early 1990s Rudaj realized that he could use Albanian muscle to form his own crew. Slowly but surely he and a group of other Albanian and Italian gangsters, several of them former associates of La Cosa Nostra, started taking over illegal gambling in the Morris Park and Arthur Avenue areas of the Bronx and in Westchester County.

After succeeding in getting their foot in the door, they decided to go for the big prize: Territory that was claimed by the Italian Mafia. In the summer of 2001 they decided to take on the mob. In June Rudaj and over a dozen of his men entered a gambling parlor run by members of the Lucchese Crime Family in Astoria, Queens. The heavily armed group of thugs made it clear that they were now in charge of illegal gambling in Astoria.

Even though they were taking over mob territory the Rudaj crew still had enormous respect for the ultimate role models of organized crime. When Gambino boss John Gotti died from cancer in June of 2002, Alex Rudaj and several crew members showed up at the wake of the Dapper Don to pay him their final respect. But of course their fights with La Cosa Nostra were never personal…just business.

But you can only push so far. Gambino leader Arnold Squitieri had had enough and wanted a talk with these rogue mobsters. The “sit down” took place at a gas station in a rest area near the New Jersey turnpike. Squitieri did not come alone. Twenty armed Gambino mobsters accompanied their boss. Alex Rudaj on the other hand had only managed to bring six members of his crew. According to undercover FBI agent Joaquin Garcia, who infiltrated the Gambino Crime Family during this period, Squitieri told Rudaj that the fun was over and that they should stop expanding their operations. The Albanians and Gambinos then pulled out their weapons. Knowing they were outnumbered the Albanians threatened to blow up the gas station with all of them in it. This ended the discussion, and both groups pulled back.

By 2006 all of the main players involved in this “sit down” were in prison. Rudaj and his Sixth Family had been picked off the street in October of 2004 and charged with a variety of racketeering and gambling charges. After a trial Rudaj and his main lieutenants were all found guilty. In 2006 Rudaj, at that time 38-years-old, was sentenced to 27 years in prison. His rival Arnold Squitieri (photo right) was convicted in an unrelated racketeering case and was sent to prison for seven years.

The difference between these two bosses is not only found in their respective prison sentences. Upon Squitieri’s imprisonment he was replaced by another Gambino mobster. Rudaj however had no one to replace him, and hardly enough crew members left to carry on his organization. In the end his Sixth Family was nothing more than an Albanian version of the Irish gang The Westies.

Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: SimonChen] #784623
06/18/14 10:27 PM
06/18/14 10:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
Now th Pagans against the Scarfo's Philly Mob

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/cover-story/38471804.html

"Those who do not belong to It, and whose native land It is not, cannot endure It. The One who sits there at the Lands End to guard the gates is called Dark Surt. He has a flaming sword, and at the end of the world He will come, He will harry, and He will vanquish all the Gods and burn the whole world with fire."
--Snorri Sturluson, The Prose Edda, 13th-century Pagan Iceland
And there He sat.
Horned and cross-legged, and holding His flaming sword like a cross. The grim image of Dark Surt, embroidered under the name on the backs of the sleeveless blue denim vests that we wore over our well-worn black leather motorcycle jackets.
Frank Friel, the head of the Philadelphia Police-FBI Organized Crime Task Force, called us the most "violence prone motorcycle gang in America."
We called ourselves "the Pagans," the baddest of the ass-kicking, beer-drinking, hell-raising, gang-banging, grease-covered, roadkill-eating, 1960s motorcycle clubs, chromed cavaliers and swastika- studded scooter jockeys.
Spawned on the marshy flatlands of Southern Maryland, we were a band of motorized highwaymen who ruled the roads from the Pine Barrens of Long Island and New Jersey to the glistening moonlit peaks of the Allegheny and Blue Ridge Mountains. Across the Dutch farmlands of Pennsylvania and down the Great Valley of Virginia, in the back alleys of the old steel, mining, railroad and paper-mill towns of the Appalachian rustbelt, it was all Pagan country.
By the late '70s we had wormed our way from the wide-open roads and cornfields of Dutch country clear down to the narrow streets and crowded stalls of the Italian Market in South Philly, where some of the brothers were getting caught up in the shadowlands of the Philadelphia underworld and popping up on the radar screens of Frank Friel and his FBI task force.
The shit finally hit the fan on a March morning in 1980, when someone put a gun to the head of Angelo Bruno, the man they called the Gentle Don because he believed he could run a criminal empire by peace and persuasion rather than violence and coercion. When the gunman squeezed the trigger, Bruno's head burst into a river of blood, and so did the streets of Philadelphia. All peace and persuasion died with Bruno and the city was engulfed in the most violent crime war in American history.
When the bodies stopped falling and the river of blood dried to an occasional trickle, Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo emerged as the new head of Bruno's criminal cartel, which has been called, among other things, the Society of Men of Honor.
Physically, Scarfo was little more than a dwarf, but he had the ambition of a giant. He dreamed of becoming the biggest crime czar in America, ruling an empire that stretched from the sunny casino-studded boardwalk of Atlantic City to the dingy smoke-filled backroom betting parlors in the bars and clubs of Scranton and Wilkes-Barre.
Gambling, drugs, entertainment, extortion, labor unions, construction firms, trucking companies, vending machines: from tattoo parlors and pizza joints to pool halls and massage parlors, whatever the enterprise, legal or illegal, he wanted to run them all.
In building his empire Little Nicky did not have the patience of the Gentle Don. He believed that there were quicker and more efficient means of putting people in line than peace and persuasion. From his throne room in the back of a rundown warehouse on South Bancroft Street, Little Nicky issued an edict demanding that every drug monger, bookmaker, tattoo artist, titty-bar owner, pizza twirler and chop-shop grease monkey in Philadelphia pay tribute for the privilege of doing business on the streets of his empire.
To collect this tax he dispatched a band of thugs, who determined the rate by how scared their victims looked and how much they thought they could squeeze out of them. Those who didn't pay were beaten senseless with baseball bats, usually on the open street, as a warning to Little Nicky's other subjects who might prove recalcitrant. But when Nicky's tax collectors paid a call on the Pagans, the bearded bikers did not look scared at all. In fact, they laughed right in the faces of Scarfo's clean-shaven wops.

Little Nicky considered this an insult, and he ordered his enforcers to teach these rude cycle-bums a lesson they would not soon forget. But Scarfo's stooges wanted no part of the chain-wielding Pagans.
They told Scarfo that these guys were even crazier than the Mulignanes and that there was no telling how they might retaliate. So nothing was done; the dispute settled into a stalemate, with Little Nicky seething in his warehouse and the Pagans doing pretty much whatever they wanted all over Philadelphia.
Relations between the Pagans and the mob festered like a swollen abscess, which finally burst on a spring night in 1984, when Little Nicky's hard-drinking underboss, Salvatore "Chuckie" Merlino, staggered out of a restaurant in South Philadelphia and saw a Pagan sitting on a motorcycle.
Fortified with the kind of courage that comes out of a bottle, Scarfo's drunken underboss rammed his car into the bike and sent the Pagan sprawling into the street. While he was lying in a hospital bed, the Pagan was visited by his bike-riding brethren. One of them found an accident report lying on the table next to the bed where the police had left it. When he picked it up, the name Salvatore Merlino jumped up in his face. Underneath Merlino's name was a South Philadelphia address.
"Look at this," he said, as he began stabbing the paper with his finger right under the address. He then passed it around the room, and his bearded brethren all began grinning as they read it.
The next night a band of Pagans pulled up at the address of the house on the accident report and shot more than 200 rounds of ammunition through the walls, windows and doors, while Merlino's terrified mother crouched on the floor, peeing herself under a shower of lead and glass.
As Detective Friel later put it: "The incident went unavenged. This brazen insult to the majesty of the Men of Honor was never punished. The Mafia bullies had been bullied by the bike-riding bullies and backed down."
In fact, Scarfo's people ultimately coughed up $5,000 for bike repairs and hospital bills.
Years later I met the Pagan who orchestrated the attack on Merlino's home. It was a fluke encounter. I was working as a bartender. He walked in and ordered a drink. We recognized each other's tattoos, and we both asked the same question: "Who the hell are you?"
He was a leader of the Pagans during the Philadelphia mob wars in the early '80s. I went by the name "Stoop" and ran the New York club back in the late '60s.
He told me about the war with the Dwarf Don and about the attack on Merlino's home. Actually it wasn't really Merlino's home, the guy told me. It was his mother's. The guy had put her address on his driver's license to confuse the cops, but he had confused the Pagans instead.
"'Who's a-dare? Who's a-dare!' we heard her screaming right before we started firing." We both laughed.
Then I told him that I had been the leader of the New York Pagans from 1967 to 1969. He was as interested in my story as I was in his.
"I always really regretted that I wasn't a member back in those days," he said. "You guys back in the '60s were crazy. I missed all that. But those were the days when you guys did the shit that the Legend was hatched from. In fact, it was the shit you guys did back then that helped guys like me scare the shit out of those greaseballs later on."
We talked some more about gang wars and about the '60s. Then the place closed. He left, and I began to clean up. I thought about what he said.
"Crazy?"
Actually I thought it was all pretty routine stuff back then.
Sure, we got into some shootings and serious shit. But most of it was just good clean fun, like drinking beer all night and standing up on the seat of your motorcycle, drunk and without a helmet, at 3 in the morning, while you blew every red light in sight.

Dawn coming up over a line of motorcycles on the front lawn of the clubhouse, and a bunch of brothers covered with stale beer, blood, barroom dust and road grease, all curled up with their old ladies on damp and dirty mattresses on the floor of the clubhouse basement.
Beating a bar full of citizens unconscious with chains and rendering the place to splinters in a matter of minutes--and for what? Because somebody said the wrong thing to a brother who couldn't even remember what was said the next morning. Walking into a courtroom with black leather jackets, knee-high boots, earrings, chrome chains and swastikas, then sneering through your beard at a jury of straight citizens and defying them to convict you.
And all of you getting handcuffed together and carted off to jail in the end, howling and laughing about it like all hell, but not having put a dime in your pocket. Then getting out and scraping together gas and beer money so you could do it all over again.
Crazy?
Maybe he had a point.
Today every department store in the country sells black Harley-Davidson T-shirts that proclaim: "The Legend Lives On."
But it wasn't Harley-Davidson that made the Legend; it was the people who rode them during a time when Harley-Davidson was working hard to disassociate itself from the people who were building the Legend that later saved the company from bankruptcy.
The Legend that transformed country music singers from crooning cowboys into longhaired rednecks. The Legend that transformed the fashion industry so that middle-aged professionals no longer went to country clubs dressed like Johnny Carson on weekends but instead dressed up like '60s outlaw bikers, with bandannas, denim vests and knee-high leather boots as they putted around the block on $40,000 machines.
And the Legend that enabled outlaw bikers to displace Nazis as the No. 1 bad guys popping up in the neurotic nightmares of suburban middle-class Americans.
Crazy?
I thought about all of this as I washed the beer glasses, wiped the bar, pulled up the rubber mats and began mopping the floor. Soon I forgot what I was doing and started thinking about a lost time when things were different.
A time before helmet and drunk-driving laws. A time when America was still half-free. A time when the Jersey Meadowlands wasn't a sports complex but a real meadowlands with grass and flowers that we roared past on the way to Pennsylvania. A time when Reading wasn't the world's largest factory outlet, but a real hard-ass Pennsylvania Dutch working town with mills and breweries and railroad yards.
A time when my buddy Blackie wasn't dead and decomposing under a black granite tombstone behind a factory, but riding past that same cemetery with the sun in his face, the wind in his hair, and a black pointed beard like a Persian caliph. A time when Jane wasn't yet a grandmother, but when her own kids were just out of diapers and she herself was still an auburn-haired little Pennsylvania Dutch teen angel with soft green eyes and the sweetest little Dutch futz that ever warmed the passenger seat-pad on a chopped hog.
I was thinking about all this, and suddenly everything was changed. Changed utterly. The place no longer smelled like stale beer and it wasn't dark and late on a winter's night. No. Now the sun was shining brightly in the late morning sky, and everything smelled like fresh spring grass as a pack of custom choppers roared through Jersey and Pennsylvania in a blur of chrome, polished candy apple lacquer, black leather, blue denim, grease, sweat, exhaust fumes, long hair, beards and swastikas.
The sun was shining in our faces, Dark Surt was grinning on our backs and the Pagans were on the run.
I was back in 1967. The year the Legend of the Pagans was born.
John Hall, a former chapter president of the Pagans motorcycle gang, is the author of the recently published Riding on the Edge: A Motorcycle Outlaw's Tale (www.motorbooks.com) from which this excerpt was taken.





Last edited by furio_from_naples; 06/18/14 10:29 PM.
Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: furio_from_naples] #784626
06/19/14 12:58 AM
06/19/14 12:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
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Scorsese Offline
Underboss
Scorsese  Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,571
Originally Posted By: furio_from_naples
Now th Pagans against the Scarfo's Philly Mob

http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/news-and-opinion/cover-story/38471804.html

"Those who do not belong to It, and whose native land It is not, cannot endure It. The One who sits there at the Lands End to guard the gates is called Dark Surt. He has a flaming sword, and at the end of the world He will come, He will harry, and He will vanquish all the Gods and burn the whole world with fire."
--Snorri Sturluson, The Prose Edda, 13th-century Pagan Iceland
And there He sat.
Horned and cross-legged, and holding His flaming sword like a cross. The grim image of Dark Surt, embroidered under the name on the backs of the sleeveless blue denim vests that we wore over our well-worn black leather motorcycle jackets.
Frank Friel, the head of the Philadelphia Police-FBI Organized Crime Task Force, called us the most "violence prone motorcycle gang in America."
We called ourselves "the Pagans," the baddest of the ass-kicking, beer-drinking, hell-raising, gang-banging, grease-covered, roadkill-eating, 1960s motorcycle clubs, chromed cavaliers and swastika- studded scooter jockeys.
Spawned on the marshy flatlands of Southern Maryland, we were a band of motorized highwaymen who ruled the roads from the Pine Barrens of Long Island and New Jersey to the glistening moonlit peaks of the Allegheny and Blue Ridge Mountains. Across the Dutch farmlands of Pennsylvania and down the Great Valley of Virginia, in the back alleys of the old steel, mining, railroad and paper-mill towns of the Appalachian rustbelt, it was all Pagan country.
By the late '70s we had wormed our way from the wide-open roads and cornfields of Dutch country clear down to the narrow streets and crowded stalls of the Italian Market in South Philly, where some of the brothers were getting caught up in the shadowlands of the Philadelphia underworld and popping up on the radar screens of Frank Friel and his FBI task force.
The shit finally hit the fan on a March morning in 1980, when someone put a gun to the head of Angelo Bruno, the man they called the Gentle Don because he believed he could run a criminal empire by peace and persuasion rather than violence and coercion. When the gunman squeezed the trigger, Bruno's head burst into a river of blood, and so did the streets of Philadelphia. All peace and persuasion died with Bruno and the city was engulfed in the most violent crime war in American history.
When the bodies stopped falling and the river of blood dried to an occasional trickle, Nicodemo "Little Nicky" Scarfo emerged as the new head of Bruno's criminal cartel, which has been called, among other things, the Society of Men of Honor.
Physically, Scarfo was little more than a dwarf, but he had the ambition of a giant. He dreamed of becoming the biggest crime czar in America, ruling an empire that stretched from the sunny casino-studded boardwalk of Atlantic City to the dingy smoke-filled backroom betting parlors in the bars and clubs of Scranton and Wilkes-Barre.
Gambling, drugs, entertainment, extortion, labor unions, construction firms, trucking companies, vending machines: from tattoo parlors and pizza joints to pool halls and massage parlors, whatever the enterprise, legal or illegal, he wanted to run them all.
In building his empire Little Nicky did not have the patience of the Gentle Don. He believed that there were quicker and more efficient means of putting people in line than peace and persuasion. From his throne room in the back of a rundown warehouse on South Bancroft Street, Little Nicky issued an edict demanding that every drug monger, bookmaker, tattoo artist, titty-bar owner, pizza twirler and chop-shop grease monkey in Philadelphia pay tribute for the privilege of doing business on the streets of his empire.
To collect this tax he dispatched a band of thugs, who determined the rate by how scared their victims looked and how much they thought they could squeeze out of them. Those who didn't pay were beaten senseless with baseball bats, usually on the open street, as a warning to Little Nicky's other subjects who might prove recalcitrant. But when Nicky's tax collectors paid a call on the Pagans, the bearded bikers did not look scared at all. In fact, they laughed right in the faces of Scarfo's clean-shaven wops.

Little Nicky considered this an insult, and he ordered his enforcers to teach these rude cycle-bums a lesson they would not soon forget. But Scarfo's stooges wanted no part of the chain-wielding Pagans.
They told Scarfo that these guys were even crazier than the Mulignanes and that there was no telling how they might retaliate. So nothing was done; the dispute settled into a stalemate, with Little Nicky seething in his warehouse and the Pagans doing pretty much whatever they wanted all over Philadelphia.
Relations between the Pagans and the mob festered like a swollen abscess, which finally burst on a spring night in 1984, when Little Nicky's hard-drinking underboss, Salvatore "Chuckie" Merlino, staggered out of a restaurant in South Philadelphia and saw a Pagan sitting on a motorcycle.
Fortified with the kind of courage that comes out of a bottle, Scarfo's drunken underboss rammed his car into the bike and sent the Pagan sprawling into the street. While he was lying in a hospital bed, the Pagan was visited by his bike-riding brethren. One of them found an accident report lying on the table next to the bed where the police had left it. When he picked it up, the name Salvatore Merlino jumped up in his face. Underneath Merlino's name was a South Philadelphia address.
"Look at this," he said, as he began stabbing the paper with his finger right under the address. He then passed it around the room, and his bearded brethren all began grinning as they read it.
The next night a band of Pagans pulled up at the address of the house on the accident report and shot more than 200 rounds of ammunition through the walls, windows and doors, while Merlino's terrified mother crouched on the floor, peeing herself under a shower of lead and glass.
As Detective Friel later put it: "The incident went unavenged. This brazen insult to the majesty of the Men of Honor was never punished. The Mafia bullies had been bullied by the bike-riding bullies and backed down."
In fact, Scarfo's people ultimately coughed up $5,000 for bike repairs and hospital bills.
Years later I met the Pagan who orchestrated the attack on Merlino's home. It was a fluke encounter. I was working as a bartender. He walked in and ordered a drink. We recognized each other's tattoos, and we both asked the same question: "Who the hell are you?"
He was a leader of the Pagans during the Philadelphia mob wars in the early '80s. I went by the name "Stoop" and ran the New York club back in the late '60s.
He told me about the war with the Dwarf Don and about the attack on Merlino's home. Actually it wasn't really Merlino's home, the guy told me. It was his mother's. The guy had put her address on his driver's license to confuse the cops, but he had confused the Pagans instead.
"'Who's a-dare? Who's a-dare!' we heard her screaming right before we started firing." We both laughed.
Then I told him that I had been the leader of the New York Pagans from 1967 to 1969. He was as interested in my story as I was in his.
"I always really regretted that I wasn't a member back in those days," he said. "You guys back in the '60s were crazy. I missed all that. But those were the days when you guys did the shit that the Legend was hatched from. In fact, it was the shit you guys did back then that helped guys like me scare the shit out of those greaseballs later on."
We talked some more about gang wars and about the '60s. Then the place closed. He left, and I began to clean up. I thought about what he said.
"Crazy?"
Actually I thought it was all pretty routine stuff back then.
Sure, we got into some shootings and serious shit. But most of it was just good clean fun, like drinking beer all night and standing up on the seat of your motorcycle, drunk and without a helmet, at 3 in the morning, while you blew every red light in sight.

Dawn coming up over a line of motorcycles on the front lawn of the clubhouse, and a bunch of brothers covered with stale beer, blood, barroom dust and road grease, all curled up with their old ladies on damp and dirty mattresses on the floor of the clubhouse basement.
Beating a bar full of citizens unconscious with chains and rendering the place to splinters in a matter of minutes--and for what? Because somebody said the wrong thing to a brother who couldn't even remember what was said the next morning. Walking into a courtroom with black leather jackets, knee-high boots, earrings, chrome chains and swastikas, then sneering through your beard at a jury of straight citizens and defying them to convict you.
And all of you getting handcuffed together and carted off to jail in the end, howling and laughing about it like all hell, but not having put a dime in your pocket. Then getting out and scraping together gas and beer money so you could do it all over again.
Crazy?
Maybe he had a point.
Today every department store in the country sells black Harley-Davidson T-shirts that proclaim: "The Legend Lives On."
But it wasn't Harley-Davidson that made the Legend; it was the people who rode them during a time when Harley-Davidson was working hard to disassociate itself from the people who were building the Legend that later saved the company from bankruptcy.
The Legend that transformed country music singers from crooning cowboys into longhaired rednecks. The Legend that transformed the fashion industry so that middle-aged professionals no longer went to country clubs dressed like Johnny Carson on weekends but instead dressed up like '60s outlaw bikers, with bandannas, denim vests and knee-high leather boots as they putted around the block on $40,000 machines.
And the Legend that enabled outlaw bikers to displace Nazis as the No. 1 bad guys popping up in the neurotic nightmares of suburban middle-class Americans.
Crazy?
I thought about all of this as I washed the beer glasses, wiped the bar, pulled up the rubber mats and began mopping the floor. Soon I forgot what I was doing and started thinking about a lost time when things were different.
A time before helmet and drunk-driving laws. A time when America was still half-free. A time when the Jersey Meadowlands wasn't a sports complex but a real meadowlands with grass and flowers that we roared past on the way to Pennsylvania. A time when Reading wasn't the world's largest factory outlet, but a real hard-ass Pennsylvania Dutch working town with mills and breweries and railroad yards.
A time when my buddy Blackie wasn't dead and decomposing under a black granite tombstone behind a factory, but riding past that same cemetery with the sun in his face, the wind in his hair, and a black pointed beard like a Persian caliph. A time when Jane wasn't yet a grandmother, but when her own kids were just out of diapers and she herself was still an auburn-haired little Pennsylvania Dutch teen angel with soft green eyes and the sweetest little Dutch futz that ever warmed the passenger seat-pad on a chopped hog.
I was thinking about all this, and suddenly everything was changed. Changed utterly. The place no longer smelled like stale beer and it wasn't dark and late on a winter's night. No. Now the sun was shining brightly in the late morning sky, and everything smelled like fresh spring grass as a pack of custom choppers roared through Jersey and Pennsylvania in a blur of chrome, polished candy apple lacquer, black leather, blue denim, grease, sweat, exhaust fumes, long hair, beards and swastikas.
The sun was shining in our faces, Dark Surt was grinning on our backs and the Pagans were on the run.
I was back in 1967. The year the Legend of the Pagans was born.
John Hall, a former chapter president of the Pagans motorcycle gang, is the author of the recently published Riding on the Edge: A Motorcycle Outlaw's Tale (www.motorbooks.com) from which this excerpt was taken.






Testimony from a pagan on that situation with the philly mob.
on the Pagans and LCN
"The club is based on the same stuff
that the mob is based on. Respect, tribute, or whatever you want to call it. If you want to deal in this guy's area you got to knock down to whatever he says.... Mother Club members always get a piece of the drug action.
"A lot's been written about the 'conflict' involving the mob and the Pagans in the early eighties. One writer even had me picking up Harry Riccobene [Philadelphia LCN member], shaking and threatening him, calling him an assbag. This is bullshit. What you had were some flukey misunder- standings. The mob never extorted the Pagans, never intended to. It was 14, 15.South Philly guys-mob wannabes really-who were being extorted. These guys were big drug dealers, and they say, 'Hey, we're doing business with some other guys, you want a piece of their action, too?' then they called me, 'the mob wants a percentage of your [the Pagans] action.' They dragged the Pagans into it.
"Myself and some Pagans have a meeting with [Raymond] Martorano, [Salvatore] Merlino, and other mob
guys.. We were all juiced up-taking every drug imaginable.
"Things get ironed out. Martorano was truly dumbfounded-said, i don't want your f--- action. Who told you that?' Merlino says, 'You [Pagans] do your thing, we'll do our thing. We don't want anything to do with you.'
"But later Merlino, who is all boozed up, runs his car over the Egyptian [a Pagan] on his bike. I knew the Pagans had to answer, to save face, or we're on the low end of the totem pole. I couldn't get any Pagans to go with me-'Hey, we don't wanna mess with the mob.'
"So, I get three citizens and we drive by Merlino's house and fire shots at the door. The next day the Pagans are sticking their chests out, 'look what we did to the mob.' Shit, when we did the shooting, they were nowhere to be found.
"My view was, 'We got those guys [the mob] on the run, they're shaking in their shoes.' Guns don't work any better for them than for us.
"In the end, the Pagans won a battle, but the mob won the war. After I was out of the picture [due to pending trial and conviction], Martorano smooth-talked McKnight [chapter president], finessed him. The Club actually turned against me. The whole thing was blamed on me-that I was a 'whacko,' that I fired the shots. After that, the Pagans were marketing the meth for Martorano. He owned McKnight.2
"In Scarfo's heyday, Pagan associates [who sell the drugs for Club members] were paying street tax in South Philly. This ended a year or two ago. Now, they're in heaven-finally, what they make is theirs. But the Pagan Club itself-No. The mob never shook them down.
"Mostly, the mob is involved with the Pagans in drug trafficking. But the mob wants to keep their distance. They see the Pagans as scum, as trouble, as a bunch of crazies.
"You hear about the Pagans being 'enforcers' for the mob. That is very seldom. They [the mob] always believed in taking care of their own business. The mob doesn't need thp. bikers for that... there are plenty of mob wannabees in South Philly who would do anything for the mob. They worship it.
"Most bikers are dumb ... really do have sawdust upstairs. Don't have the mental equipment to deal with the mob in South Philly. And don't hide it either... don't want anything upstairs. Y ou're talking about guys who don't take a bath for months at a time."

Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: SimonChen] #784649
06/19/14 07:27 AM
06/19/14 07:27 AM
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116th_street Offline
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Interesting testimony. Do you know when it's from, Scorsese?

Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: 116th_street] #784666
06/19/14 09:10 AM
06/19/14 09:10 AM
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BigRed Offline
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BigRed  Offline
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That's from Jimmy DeGregorio. He became a witness in 1984 or 1985 and the incident with Merlino he's talking about happened in 1982. He also lied a lot about the Pagans so it's possible this is a lie too. But the Philly guys did back down from the Pagans a few other times too.

At the time the Pagans were not a "street gang" but an actual organized crime group with law enforcement and even political connections. They basically owned the town of Marcus Hook PA and it's mayor and cops. They also had juice in Philadelphia.

But that was a long time ago. They aren't a shadow of that now.

Last edited by BigRed; 06/19/14 09:12 AM.
Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: BigRed] #784669
06/19/14 09:41 AM
06/19/14 09:41 AM
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Scorsese Offline
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its from the penn crime commission report from 1990.
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/133208NCJRS.pdf

Re: conflict between mafia families and street gangs [Re: BigRed] #784671
06/19/14 09:55 AM
06/19/14 09:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,094
Cajunland
LaLouisiane Offline
Cajun Mafia
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Originally Posted By: BigRed
That's from Jimmy DeGregorio. He became a witness in 1984 or 1985 and the incident with Merlino he's talking about happened in 1982. He also lied a lot about the Pagans so it's possible this is a lie too. But the Philly guys did back down from the Pagans a few other times too.

At the time the Pagans were not a "street gang" but an actual organized crime group with law enforcement and even political connections. They basically owned the town of Marcus Hook PA and it's mayor and cops. They also had juice in Philadelphia.

But that was a long time ago. They aren't a shadow of that now.


That's the guy who did the interviews for the Pagan's on Gangland


"What are you cacklin' hens cluckin' about?!?!"

"Is that him?!? With the sombrero on?!?"



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