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Bergdahl #782065
06/04/14 05:08 PM
06/04/14 05:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619
NJ
Don Marco Offline OP
Underboss
Don Marco  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,619
NJ
I feel like I am watching a live episode of Homeland with a sergeant released from captivity after several years. I am looking for Claire Danes in the background.

Last edited by Don Marco; 06/04/14 05:11 PM.

"After all, we are not communists"

Christopher Moltisanti: You ever think what a coincidence it is that Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease?

Tony Soprano: Yeah well, when you're married, you'll understand the importance of fresh produce.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #782073
06/04/14 05:54 PM
06/04/14 05:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Yes, it certainly has that "Homeland" feeling.

Plenty of GI's must have deserted during the 13 years of the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. What made Bergdahl such a high priority that the government swapped five ultra-dangerous terrorists for him? More to this than meets the eye, so far.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Turnbull] #782179
06/05/14 12:31 PM
06/05/14 12:31 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
B
bigboy Offline
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bigboy  Offline
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I believe that obama wants to close Gitmo before he leaves office and it will be easier to do with the worst of the worst already gone. There is always a plot behind these things

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #782255
06/05/14 05:07 PM
06/05/14 05:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 722
Midwest
LittleNicky Offline
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LittleNicky  Offline
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Posts: 722
Midwest
Personally I don't think Obama really thought it through all the way. With all the VA stuff coming down, a good media piece about saving a war hero POW and appearing with the grateful parents sounds like a great turn around moment.

Dealing with the bad press around the taliban guys is one thing. But he got totally caught off guard by the fact he was getting back at best a deserter and at worst a traitor. If he did know, he thought the nondisclosure agreements were going to shut his squad mates up. Instead, he ended up with them all in the media and unable to find a single, soildary person in the world willing to say he "served with honor and distinction" except liar susan rice.

Then the horrific, ridiculous press conference with bowe's weird beard father praising allah and writing tweets about hating america and supporting the taliban.

Maybe underlying it all the policy could have been defended, but the way he carried it out is nothing short of bizarre.

Last edited by LittleNicky; 06/05/14 05:08 PM.

Should probably ask Mr. Kierney. I guess if you're Italian, you should be in prison.
I've read the RICO Act, and I can tell you it's more appropriate...
for some of those guys over in Washington than it is for me or any of my fellas here
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #782264
06/05/14 06:40 PM
06/05/14 06:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
ItalianForever Offline
Capo
ItalianForever  Offline
Capo
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 384
Little nicky the only problem is that your forgetting many republican congressman were writng letters to get this guy out. All of a sudden now they flip the switch? Either a brilliant piece of strategy or just more bull shit flip flopping.

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #782395
06/06/14 12:43 PM
06/06/14 12:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
B
bigboy Offline
Underboss
bigboy  Offline
B
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
Watch Megyn Kelly tonight aT 9:00 FOR PART 3 OF HER INTERVIEW WITH HIS FELLOW PLATOON MEMBERS.

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #782405
06/06/14 01:30 PM
06/06/14 01:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline
MaryCas  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
None of these things are cut and dry. There are all sorts of things in the background that I would guess we don't know and will never. But, I think its a safe bet to say that the taliban creeps had microchips implanted somewhere on their body. Most likely place is the rectum. When they return to their lair, they will be scanned and debugged, but at least the CIA will know where they went then a big bomb will blow them up.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #782432
06/06/14 04:14 PM
06/06/14 04:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
B
bigboy Offline
Underboss
bigboy  Offline
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Underboss
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Posts: 1,282
I think that if the US implanted chips in their bodies, their friends in Qatar would willingly remove them for these shitbirds.
Qatar has already indicated that they and they only will monitor them and not USA. Of course it would be cool to put a drone strike on them. I think they cheated us and gave us a new Taliban mole who can help their jihad against us. This is just my opinion.

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #782450
06/06/14 06:48 PM
06/06/14 06:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
klydon1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
This is a very complex matter, and the noisiest critics of the exchange fail to consider the important fact that at the cessation of the war, hostilities, and active military presence in Afghanistan, the US is hard pressed to establish a basis for continuing to hold the five Taliban members. While the Bush administration purposely avoided designating them as prisoners of war in order to subvert the protections guaranteed by the Geneva Convention and international law, it is important to keep in mind that the prisoners have been held since 2002 without any criminal charges.

In order to justify holding these prisoners indefinitely after the war, we have to charge, try and sentence them. There are tenuous arguments that can be made, however, that these prisoners defy a classification envisioned by the Convention, but it will almost universally be viewed around the world that the Geneva Convention or international law would not endorse a situation where captured combatants during war, who are not charged with specific crimes, remain detained at the cessation of the conflict.

Thus, if it were important to keep the Taliban 5 detained perpetually, they needed to have been charged, and because after twelve years we could not find a basis, on which to charge them criminally, they would be released. If they are guilty of crimes during their time as provincial governors (as reports indicate), that would be for the Afghan government to consider as the US has no jurisdiction over that.

As far as Bergdahl being a traitor, deserter, etc., that may be, and all the more reason to secure him from the Taliban and allow the military tribunals to examine the facts and pass judgment. This is not a valid reason to allow an American POW to remain imprisoned. You can bet that if he died as a prisoner, the same politicians, who are vilifying him and his family, would be accusing the president of his death.

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #783911
06/14/14 07:18 PM
06/14/14 07:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I don't see what's so complex about it.

First, our major concern should be the U.S. Constitution. Not the Geneva Convention or international law.

Second, this obviously isn't a conventional war where we are fighting a standard uniformed opponent that we can make a treaty with. There is really no "cessation of conflict" and so we are under no obligation to ever let these guys go. We are perfectly justified in holding them indefinitely. Though, I'd prefer to just have them executed and be done with it.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: IvyLeague] #783976
06/15/14 11:29 AM
06/15/14 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
klydon1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
I don't see what's so complex about it.

First, our major concern should be the U.S. Constitution. Not the Geneva Convention or international law.



If "our major concern" in this matter should be the U.S. Constitution, please show me an article and section, or amendment that permits the government's indefinite detention of a person without indictment or formal charges, without a right to counsel, without a trial, and without due process.

Clearly the Constitution is of no concern here. If it were applicable, these guys would have to have been released more than a decade ago. In fact the government in 2000 bent over backwards to argue specifically that the honored protections and liberties do not extend here and should therefore be ignored.

And there are obvious reasons why we can not disregard the Geneva Convention or international treaties and law. As we have been the most militaristically engaged nation in the world since the 20th century, we have had, have and likely will have the largest number of armed personnel across the globe. Failure to abide by the convention or international law is an invitation for nations around the world to do the same.

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #783986
06/15/14 12:46 PM
06/15/14 12:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
B
bigboy Offline
Underboss
bigboy  Offline
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Underboss
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Posts: 1,282
We have now learned that a 2 star General will conduct the investigation into Berghdal's desertion which is a shame as from what I've been told by active duty soldiers, much of the officer corps has become wimpy and politically correct. The chances are good that he will conclude what the White House tells him to conclude. Hopefully I am wrong

Re: Bergdahl [Re: bigboy] #783991
06/15/14 01:03 PM
06/15/14 01:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
klydon1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: bigboy
We have now learned that a 2 star General will conduct the investigation into Berghdal's desertion which is a shame as from what I've been told by active duty soldiers, much of the officer corps has become wimpy and politically correct. The chances are good that he will conclude what the White House tells him to conclude. Hopefully I am wrong


Told by whom?

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #783993
06/15/14 01:11 PM
06/15/14 01:11 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 2,111
New Jersey
Dellacroce Offline
Underboss
Dellacroce  Offline
Underboss
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Posts: 2,111
New Jersey
Fox news lol.

They should shoot this deserter(which is what the punishment should and used to be) and his taliban loving father. And then drone strike those bastards they let go free, i mean they know exactly where there are. Then it would be like this whole clusterfuck never happened, just food for thought...


"Let me tell you something. There's no nobility in poverty. I've been a poor man, and I've been a rich man. And I choose rich every fucking time."

-Jordan Belfort
Re: Bergdahl [Re: klydon1] #784020
06/15/14 02:41 PM
06/15/14 02:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Originally Posted By: klydon1

If "our major concern" in this matter should be the U.S. Constitution, please show me an article and section, or amendment that permits the government's indefinite detention of a person without indictment or formal charges, without a right to counsel, without a trial, and without due process.

And there are obvious reasons why we can not disregard the Geneva Convention or international treaties and law. As we have been the most militaristically engaged nation in the world since the 20th century, we have had, have and likely will have the largest number of armed personnel across the globe. Failure to abide by the convention or international law is an invitation for nations around the world to do the same.


There you go again raising logical legal arguments and making sense. A casual observer might even think that you've studied law or practiced law... rolleyes whistle


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Lilo] #784024
06/15/14 03:03 PM
06/15/14 03:03 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
The Fuckin Doctor
pizzaboy  Offline
The Fuckin Doctor

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
Originally Posted By: Lilo
Originally Posted By: klydon1

If "our major concern" in this matter should be the U.S. Constitution, please show me an article and section, or amendment that permits the government's indefinite detention of a person without indictment or formal charges, without a right to counsel, without a trial, and without due process.

And there are obvious reasons why we can not disregard the Geneva Convention or international treaties and law. As we have been the most militaristically engaged nation in the world since the 20th century, we have had, have and likely will have the largest number of armed personnel across the globe. Failure to abide by the convention or international law is an invitation for nations around the world to do the same.


There you go again raising logical legal arguments and making sense. A casual observer might even think that you've studied law or practiced law... rolleyes whistle

Yeah, the knee jerk reaction is to want to see this guy hanged. And I certainly feel that way. I'm only pro-death penalty in extreme cases, and treason is certainly one of them. But give the guy his day in court.

Then hang him whistle.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Lilo] #784070
06/15/14 08:16 PM
06/15/14 08:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
I
IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: klydon1
If "our major concern" in this matter should be the U.S. Constitution, please show me an article and section, or amendment that permits the government's indefinite detention of a person without indictment or formal charges, without a right to counsel, without a trial, and without due process.

Clearly the Constitution is of no concern here. If it were applicable, these guys would have to have been released more than a decade ago. In fact the government in 2000 bent over backwards to argue specifically that the honored protections and liberties do not extend here and should therefore be ignored.

And there are obvious reasons why we can not disregard the Geneva Convention or international treaties and law. As we have been the most militaristically engaged nation in the world since the 20th century, we have had, have and likely will have the largest number of armed personnel across the globe. Failure to abide by the convention or international law is an invitation for nations around the world to do the same.


Like most liberals, you are approaching the war on terror as a police action, i.e. prosecute them and put them in prison. These terrorists are in a grey area where neither prisoner of war, in the traditional sense, or criminal prosecution fully applies. Every last prisoner in Guantanamo should have been brought before military tribunals and then executed years ago.

And, no, letting 5 terrorists go free so we could save the skin of a guy who walked away and all but joined the enemy was a stupid thing to do. But I wouldn't expect you to call Obama's screw up for what it is. You've always been quick to defend your guy.

Originally Posted By: Lilo
There you go again raising logical legal arguments and making sense. A casual observer might even think that you've studied law or practiced law... rolleyes whistle


Oh please. Klydon comes here every day acts like he's all about the law and here to explain it to us mere mortals. And many of you, who are of the same liberal persuasion, are only to happy to buy what he's selling. But the reality is, he starts from his own personal liberal leanings and then - like any lawyer - twists the law to suit his agenda. You may be impressed with his legalese mumbo jumbo but I'm not. The guy's full of it.

Last edited by IvyLeague; 06/15/14 08:24 PM.

Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: IvyLeague] #784083
06/16/14 01:25 AM
06/16/14 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Lilo Offline
Lilo  Offline

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,325
MI
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague

Originally Posted By: Lilo
There you go again raising logical legal arguments and making sense. A casual observer might even think that you've studied law or practiced law... rolleyes whistle


Oh please. Klydon comes here every day acts like he's all about the law and here to explain it to us mere mortals. And many of you, who are of the same liberal persuasion, are only to happy to buy what he's selling. But the reality is, he starts from his own personal liberal leanings and then - like any lawyer - twists the law to suit his agenda. You may be impressed with his legalese mumbo jumbo but I'm not. The guy's full of it.


I do not always agree politically with Kly. lol I don't always agree politically with anyone here. But I do respect his expertise in his chosen profession the same as I would anyone else's. In this particular case he's starting from some very basic facts and in no way is twisting the law as you claim. There have, as mentioned, been a number of cases in which the Supreme Court has upheld the right to habeas corpus, found that military commissions in certain instances violated both the Geneva convention and the UCMJ, and placed other checks on executive branch power. And obviously ,there are very obvious practical reasons that you do not wish to torture or summarily execute captured prisoners.

It is amazing to me, that many conservatives, who are in other cases claiming to be fierce defenders of both individual rights and separation of powers, want to throw all of those things out when someone is a "terrorist".

Additionally the Right didn't lose its religion when Bush released over 500 prisoners from Guantanamo or when he paid ransom to get Americans back. Much of this is just political theater. The only real issue I see is the lack of Congressional notification.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...terrorists.html

http://aattp.org/under-bush-600-gitmo-de...i-attack-video/

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/15/opinio...pinion&_r=0


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: IvyLeague] #784094
06/16/14 05:17 AM
06/16/14 05:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
klydon1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague


Like most liberals, you are approaching the war on terror as a police action, i.e. prosecute them and put them in prison. These terrorists are in a grey area where neither prisoner of war, in the traditional sense, or criminal prosecution fully applies. Every last prisoner in Guantanamo should have been brought before military tribunals and then executed years ago.

And, no, letting 5 terrorists go free so we could save the skin of a guy who walked away and all but joined the enemy was a stupid thing to do. But I wouldn't expect you to call Obama's screw up for what it is. You've always been quick to defend your guy.



Please don't craft arguments for me when you can't produce consistent, sensible rationales to support your own flawed conclusions. Again if you brought the prisoners to trial in a military tribunal, the Constitution, in which you wrap yourself so tightly but seem not to understand, would still demand that there be formal charges, discovery and due process. This is exactly what the government did not want to happen.

Re: Bergdahl [Re: IvyLeague] #784096
06/16/14 05:24 AM
06/16/14 05:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
klydon1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague

But the reality is, he starts from his own personal liberal leanings and then - like any lawyer - twists the law to suit his agenda. You may be impressed with his legalese mumbo jumbo but I'm not. The guy's full of it.


Look in the mirror, pal. Twisting things to fit an agenda is the job of the fundamentalists and creationists.


Last edited by klydon1; 06/16/14 05:25 AM.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: bigboy] #784098
06/16/14 05:40 AM
06/16/14 05:40 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
F
Footreads Offline
Underboss
Footreads  Offline
F
Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
Originally Posted By: bigboy
Watch Megyn Kelly tonight aT 9:00 FOR PART 3 OF HER INTERVIEW WITH HIS FELLOW PLATOON MEMBERS.


Now that is a fine sexy women only problem is she is a lawyer. No, just kidding love lawyers especially if she is sexy.

I know there are lawyers on here. In general do you think female lawyers make better criminal lawyers as compared to men?


only the unloved hate
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #784114
06/16/14 07:27 AM
06/16/14 07:27 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
B
bigboy Offline
Underboss
bigboy  Offline
B
Underboss
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,282
I've worked with, for, and against lawyers for 40 years and don't see either sex as being superior over the other. Female lawyers do seem to be more detail oriented than many men and as any lawyer on this site can tell you detail is very important. Some jurors may have a bias against the sex opposite of them selves. Also, men have dominated this profession for ages. female lawyers are newer on the scene and so there aren't as many.

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #834571
03/25/15 01:12 PM
03/25/15 01:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
B
Beanshooter Offline
Underboss
Beanshooter  Offline
B
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #834766
03/26/15 03:28 PM
03/26/15 03:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,822
Where ever needed.
DuesPaid Offline
Banned
DuesPaid  Offline
Banned

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,822
Where ever needed.
Put him Down.


Be Loyal, Be Loving, Be Quiet.
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #834770
03/26/15 03:40 PM
03/26/15 03:40 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
F
Footreads Offline
Underboss
Footreads  Offline
F
Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
Bergdahl that is a fucking jerkoff. Look at his father another jerk off.


only the unloved hate
Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #834773
03/26/15 03:47 PM
03/26/15 03:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
B
Beanshooter Offline
Underboss
Beanshooter  Offline
B
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,544
Kokomo
Don't stop there Footreads and Obama?

Re: Bergdahl [Re: Don Marco] #834816
03/26/15 09:52 PM
03/26/15 09:52 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
F
Footreads Offline
Underboss
Footreads  Offline
F
Underboss
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 4,401
Obama thinks everything is perfect. If the plan is to destroy the country.


only the unloved hate
Re: Bergdahl [Re: bigboy] #834900
03/27/15 12:16 PM
03/27/15 12:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,374
Alabama
D
dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
dixiemafia  Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
D
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,374
Alabama
Originally Posted By: bigboy
We have now learned that a 2 star General will conduct the investigation into Berghdal's desertion which is a shame as from what I've been told by active duty soldiers, much of the officer corps has become wimpy and politically correct. The chances are good that he will conclude what the White House tells him to conclude. Hopefully I am wrong


Well in a court martial everyone involved must be at least your rank or a rank higher than you and up. Not sure about the investigating part though.

They should have the fool in office on the stand, after all he gave up 5 terrorists for this idiot.


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