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Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #785891
06/25/14 09:49 AM
06/25/14 09:49 AM
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funkster Offline
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Holy fuck those pics are amazing...that is DEFINITELY the youngest picture of Joey O I've seen. This is exactly what I talked about before, just think at the amount of pics in personal collections that most of us will never see?

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #785892
06/25/14 09:50 AM
06/25/14 09:50 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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I didn't think there was a picture out there of Joey any younger than his late 40's. Nice to see some shots of him in his younger days.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #786123
06/26/14 03:04 PM
06/26/14 03:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
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JoeEBrown, great photos and thanks for posting them. On the photo with your grandfather, Accardo and Cerone, the elderly man next to Cerone is Ricca. If you pm me I can share some additional info with you.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #786226
06/27/14 06:11 AM
06/27/14 06:11 AM
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Very cool - thanks JoeBrown.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: JoeEBrown] #786320
06/28/14 03:45 AM
06/28/14 03:45 AM
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Posts: 4,606
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Originally Posted By: JoeEBrown
I have several pictures with unknowns. I've been asking around but nobody seems to know. Hot Springs photo is actually a postcard with the date on back but the year is obscured by the mark where it was attached to a photo album.None of em appear to be too happy about having their photo taken. I don't know about you, but if I saw those three in Hot Springs, the last thing I would do is take a picture of em! Here are a few more pics. The Accardo Cerone Ricca Aiuppa is my parents wedding. The women are Angie, Joey's wife, and I think the other is Clarice Accardo. I'm sure that can be confirmed by someone on this site. The other group photo I think is Tony Caps daughter's wedding? I don't know the man in the middle he seems to be somebody. Second from right looks like Frankie LaPorte but I don't know. guy on far right looks a little scary. I'd love to know more about these guys... Next, Uncle Joey and Auntie Ange. She was somethin'! Brassy, took no crap from the guys. I remember her yelling at the boys for letting me sip a drink from Joey's glass when I was about four years old. Last is Ansani with? John Binder,local mob expert, thought him to be Joey Obrien but he really looks a lot like Uncle Red, the railroad guard who married my grandmas sister. That's really about all that I know. My dad was never involved so he knew very little. One more anecdote: When Joey got out of prison in 96 I think it was, my dad went to visit him several times. On the last visit he picked up my grandmother, who outlived them all, and the three drove around for a couple of hours. What a scene that must have been! Thanks for letting me share. I'm sure the boys are spinning in their graves over my big mouth but I really don't no nuttin".


The same photo of Clarice Accardo is used in this documentary(forward at 2:11):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff6n3_c0KBY

So maybe thats her.Btw very cool photos and thanks



He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #786421
06/28/14 09:52 PM
06/28/14 09:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 839
Elmwood Park, Illinois
YoTonyB Offline
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Elmwood Park, Illinois
Snake's outstanding 'legwork' reveals the following...
Quote:
Messino's residence is listed as 2037 North 77th Avenue, Elmwood Park, IL. It's still there, check it out on Google Maps. Nice neighborhood...Messino is known to specialize in "extortionate credit transactions" and is recognized as belonging to Jack Cerone's street crew. His known associates include Joe Gagliano, George Bravos, and Chris Cardi, his nephew (although the files leave that out)...Messino was Cerone's driver for nearly ten years...

Cerone's house was also on 77th Avenue, across the street and a half-block south of Messino. (If you do street view, you'll know which house it is...) I often wondered if Messino walked down the block for 'work' and drove Jack's car, or if he got in his car and drove around the block to get to Jack's house because 77th Avenue is a one-way street northbound.

Cardi's house was one street over on 77th Court.


Then JoeEBrown reminisces...
Quote:
In 1978 I took my new girlfriend to the Feast in Melrose.

That would be the Feast of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel in Melrose Park and I can tell you with 100% certainty that I was also there on Sunday in 1978. That was the summer after my freshman year of college, and my sisters and I would have taken my mom and her sister, because they had made a promise to their mother to attend 'The Feast' every year to see the procession. Mom pinned a dollar on the statue. I paid for a candle in church. Probably had a stuffed pepper, beef sangwich and an Italian ice...

Great pictures! Thanks for sharing.

tony b.


"Kid, these are my f**kin' work clothes."
"You look good in them golf shoes. You should buy 'em"
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #791415
07/24/14 06:37 AM
07/24/14 06:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,408
Snakes Offline OP
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Does anyone happen to have FBI numbers for the following individuals? Having the number handy makes it much easier to request files:

Joe Amabile
Joe Amato
Sam Alex (Gus's brother)
Jimmy Catuara
Louie Eboli
Frank Ferraro
Hy Larner
Lee Magnafichi
Pat Manno/Manning
Pat Marcy
Romie Nappi (possibly destroyed)
Dominic Palermo
Dominic Senese
Al Tornabene
Frank Zizzo


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #791993
07/26/14 11:17 PM
07/26/14 11:17 PM
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Posts: 520
toyland
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don illuminati Offline
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toyland
Good thread.


"How's the Italian food in this restaurant?'
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792226
07/28/14 06:19 AM
07/28/14 06:19 AM
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ChiTown Offline
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Originally Posted By: Snakes
Does anyone happen to have FBI numbers for the following individuals? Having the number handy makes it much easier to request files:

Joe Amabile
Joe Amato
Sam Alex (Gus's brother)
Jimmy Catuara
Louie Eboli
Frank Ferraro
Hy Larner
Lee Magnafichi
Pat Manno/Manning
Pat Marcy
Romie Nappi (possibly destroyed)
Dominic Palermo
Dominic Senese
Al Tornabene
Frank Zizzo


Man if you do get additional background on these guys, I'd love to see it! Especially on Al Tournabene, Frank "Strongy" Ferraro and Frank "Cease" Zizzo.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792517
07/29/14 06:01 AM
07/29/14 06:01 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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Magnafichi and Skids Caruso are on the way. I also have Paul Ricca's coming, although I doubt there is much there that we don't already know.

I also have a subscription to the Chicago Tribune's online services, which means I have access to old articles from the archives. Found one covering a gambling bust in Cicero from 1947 that has Tornabene as one of those arrested.

John DiFronzo is also all over the place in the fifties for burglary busts. One in particular stands out in 1949 when John was 20 and he and his partner were caught in the act. His partner was shot and killed and John was apprehended.

Last edited by Snakes; 07/29/14 06:01 AM.

"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792533
07/29/14 07:08 AM
07/29/14 07:08 AM
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funkster Offline
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I would be very interested to see what the Lee Magnafichi file has to say.


Tornabene nugget is interesting considering so many people didn't know he was a player.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792535
07/29/14 07:11 AM
07/29/14 07:11 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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Tornabene was a player in Cicero for almost fifty years before anyone on the outside knew he was. He ran gambling out there for decades without any law enforcement interference. He was meeting with guys like Aiuppa and Nicoletti in the late sixties, early seventies, so his time as a major player goes back quite a ways.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792536
07/29/14 07:13 AM
07/29/14 07:13 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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I am not even sure if Magnafichi has his own file because was never seriously investigated by the feds. It will be interesting to see what they find.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792559
07/29/14 10:01 AM
07/29/14 10:01 AM
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funkster Offline
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You know Fosco brings up an interesting point, the FBI have files on his father and have him listed as Chicago LCN. Makes me wonder if he wasn't higher on the totem pole then people give him credit for. I mean he was a relatively important player in the unions.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792576
07/29/14 11:30 AM
07/29/14 11:30 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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Chicago was a lot quicker to make guys in the unions than they were street-level guys. There are some union guys who were made that a lot of people have never heard of.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792744
07/29/14 09:36 PM
07/29/14 09:36 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
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Faithful1 Offline
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I wouldn't doubt that the Magnafichi and the Caruso files are heavily redacted. Too many contacts still alive.

The FBI did have Armando Fosco's file and destroyed it. I think I mentioned to Snakes that even a guy form an older generation whose file most would consider acceptable to the public like Al Capone's brother Matt was destroyed. Ricca's file though is old enough that they should reprocess it; potentially a reprocessed Ricca file could have some good stuff.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792819
07/30/14 06:51 AM
07/30/14 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted By: Snakes
Magnafichi and Skids Caruso are on the way. I also have Paul Ricca's coming, although I doubt there is much there that we don't already know.

I also have a subscription to the Chicago Tribune's online services, which means I have access to old articles from the archives. Found one covering a gambling bust in Cicero from 1947 that has Tornabene as one of those arrested.

John DiFronzo is also all over the place in the fifties for burglary busts. One in particular stands out in 1949 when John was 20 and he and his partner were caught in the act. His partner was shot and killed and John was apprehended.


I'd love to see any background on Skids. Glad you are doing this! Also interesting about Tournabene and DiFronzo.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792836
07/30/14 07:33 AM
07/30/14 07:33 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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Here is another interesting find from the Tribune archives; according to informants, graft and bribes were supervised in each police district by an Outfit member or associate. The districts and their "supervisors" are as follows:

Ross Prio: Overall North Side supervisor
Ralph Pierce: Hyde Park, Woodlawn, Grand Crossing, other far South Side districts
Frank Ferraro (acting for Gus Alex): Loop
Louis Briatta/Sam Cesario: Maxwell
Jimmy Catuara: Deering
Chuckie English: Brighton Park/Fillmore (partial)
Jack Patrick: Fillmore (partial)
Fiore Buccieri: Marquette
Jack Humphries (Murray's brother): Lawndale, New City
Chuck Nicoletti: Warren Ave. (Gambling)
Julius Grieco: Warren Ave. (Vice/Night Clubs)
Jack Cerone: Austin
Sam Mesi/Michael Magliocco: Racine Ave.
Marshall Caifano: Summerdale/Town Hall/Sheffield
Joe DiVarco/Jimmy Allegretti/Tony DeMonte: Chicago Ave. (Rush Street)
Lenny Patrick: Rogers Park
William Aloisio: Shakespeare Ave.
Skids Caruso: Prairie Ave.

Here is a link to the modern-day listing of districts. Clink on a district to see a map and description of the area in question:

https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/Communities/Districts


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792841
07/30/14 07:47 AM
07/30/14 07:47 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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Tornabene's house (the same one from the Chuck Goudie video!) was also raided in 1966. Tornabene wasn't home but the cops used a battering ram to beat the door down and found a guy named Ralph Trobiani frantically attempting to destroy gambling records. Tornabene's house was basically a glorified wireroom, containing three telephones, and was estimated to taken in 500k worth of sports betting, annually. You have to wonder what Al's wife thought about her house being used as a gambling den lol

Last edited by Snakes; 07/30/14 07:48 AM.

"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792856
07/30/14 08:18 AM
07/30/14 08:18 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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In some more "before they were famous" articles:

Sam Carlisi was busted for running a gambling den from his house on Polk St. Apparently, Sam's older brother, Alphonse, was a bigger wheel in Cicero than Sam was, at least through the sixties.

Someone who I believe to be Joey Lombardo (address listed as Hirsch St., ring a bell?) was arrested in 1953 for hijacking a fur track with coats valued at a total of nearly 90,000 dollars.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #792919
07/30/14 12:56 PM
07/30/14 12:56 PM
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ChiTown Offline
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Originally Posted By: Snakes
In some more "before they were famous" articles:

Sam Carlisi was busted for running a gambling den from his house on Polk St. Apparently, Sam's older brother, Alphonse, was a bigger wheel in Cicero than Sam was, at least through the sixties.

Someone who I believe to be Joey Lombardo (address listed as Hirsch St., ring a bell?) was arrested in 1953 for hijacking a fur track with coats valued at a total of nearly 90,000 dollars.


Snakes that is great insight - for one, I only knew of Carlisi's older brother in Buffalo "Rossario" Carlisi, who was a major East Coast LCN member. No idea he had multiple brothers.

I don't think Joey lived anywhere else than Ohio Street after getting married in 51'. Perhaps the guy you are looking at is his older brother Andrew "Nucci" Lombardo instead? Nucci was one of the best burglars in Chicago - ran with the Panzco's but never really affiliated himself with the Outfit leadership.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #794747
08/08/14 09:37 AM
08/08/14 09:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
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x3535 Offline
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i can get you all the numbers, any chance you would be willing to share the files when they come?

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #803670
09/19/14 10:44 AM
09/19/14 10:44 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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Got a letter today saying Magnafichi's files were destroyed in 1978, which is interesting because he really didn't become a major player until after that time. Apparently, he was not investigated from 1978-1989.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: JoeEBrown] #803792
09/20/14 04:31 AM
09/20/14 04:31 AM
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mickey2 Offline
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Originally Posted By: JoeEBrown
I googled FOIA and this page popped up. I was stunned because I've been trying to get info on Ansani for many years now. You see, he was my grandfather but I know very little about him.I know he was good friends with Joe Batters from the time they were kids.They remained close friends for life. Born in 1904 he started bangin' at a very young age, robbing freight trains and doing street crimes. Don't know when he joined the Circus Gang but he was close to Tough Tony Capezio and John Moore for life. Not sure exactly when he partnered up with Aiuppa but he stood up in Joey's wedding in the late twenties or early thirty's. After that all I know is,he,John Moore and Joey were all together until they died. Joey was godfather to my father and oldest brother and John Moore's son, Terry, was my godfather. They ran Cicero in the 50's and 60's with Joe Corngold as their mentor. They owned Taylor manufacturing, the Town Hotel, and the Turf Club among other businesses. I doubt I would be telling this if my father was still alive but he passed one week before the old man, which is what they called Joey at the end of his life. Don't want to take up too much space but a couple of funny stories: As I said he used to rob freight trains and there was one security guard that they beat up several times until the guard told them to just take the stuff and stop hitting him. That guy ended up marrying my grandmother's sister and became Uncle Red. A week after my dad died my mother received a phone call from Joey's long time driver. I listened on the extension. He said "I just wanted to let you know,da old man died yesterday." my mother said "I'm so sorry! Will you let us know about the arrangements?" He replied "Oh dere aint gonna be no arrangements, no nuttin'. He said to just dig a hole and trow him in it." I laughed out loud. A more poignant story: In 1978 I took my new girlfriend to the Feast in Melrose. As we headed toward the carnival I stopped in to see Uncle Joey. We walked in the alley to the garage behind Joey's mother's house. I looked in the garage and saw Joey sitting there so I strolled in. Two Huge guys started moving toward me until he waved them off. As I hugged him he said with tears in his eyes "I miss Bobby". One of the most feared men in Chicago Outfit was crying! And he was mean. Around 1939 he and my grandfather got pulled over in Fox Lake while my grandfather was driving. He told my grandfather to get the cop to lean in the window so he could shoot him. Gramps said under his breath to shush, forget about it. Joey more vehemently, Get him to lean in the window so he could kill him. That's when my grandfather reminded Joey that my dad, who was six years old at the time, was in the back seat. they took the ticket but Joey was pissed that he couldn't kill a cop for trying to give them a speeding ticket. I don't know how true the last story is but Joey could be a mean son of a bitch, and all those old timers hated cops. One thing I would like to clarify. My grandfather was anything but cheap. It's extremely unlikely that he would have opted for medical care from a prison doctor over his specialist at Rush St. Luke's. The actual reason he started his sentence immediately was to be able to attend my father's graduation from college the following year. And by the way, that whole deal was bullshit, but those guys got away with many, much more serious crimes so boo hoo.I attached a couple of photos.


thanks for all the pics and storys! Does someone here collect all rare pics? would be nice to download them in one take

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #803801
09/20/14 06:07 AM
09/20/14 06:07 AM
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Krsheely Offline
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Just a quick question could you explain why an FBI file would be destroyed? Or redacted? From what I can infer from reading this post if info is still useful or if someone listed in the file is not verified/confirmed associate then it's redacted?

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #803817
09/20/14 07:21 AM
09/20/14 07:21 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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I work with government records on a state basis but it's basically the same premise as federal: When you have a volume of records that take up tens of thousands of cubic feet of space, like FBI records, at some point they need to be destroyed. I imagine they have a set retention period for records to be destroyed and unless they hold some type of major historic value (Kennedy assassination stuff) or are constantly being requested (guys like Gotti, Giancana, etc.) than they are probably seen as something expendable which can be destroyed.


"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #803819
09/20/14 07:26 AM
09/20/14 07:26 AM
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Snakes Offline OP
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As far as redaction is concerned, any identifying information (SS#, driver's license numbers, etc.) need to be redacted by law. Information concerning informants will probably always be redacted as well. Also, just because someone has not been identified in a court of law as being associated with a criminal outfit, it does not mean that their name will be redacted from files. I have seen lists of family memberships that have not been redacted - being a part of a crime family or even associating with known members isn't technically against the law (unless there are parole restrictions against that individual). Blood family members will, however, almost always be redacted.

Last edited by Snakes; 09/20/14 07:26 AM.

"Snakes... Snakes... I don't know no Snakes."
Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #803822
09/20/14 07:45 AM
09/20/14 07:45 AM
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Krsheely Offline
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Thank you for that answer, I guess I didn't even think of space being an issue but it does make sense because how many people wold really have ever requested a lot of the lesser known figures information, not to mention files they had/have on non oc criminals.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #803849
09/20/14 11:49 AM
09/20/14 11:49 AM
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funkster Offline
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Too bad considering today's technology allows you to pretty much fit everything onto a thumb drive.

Re: Chicago Outfit FBI files - Declassified [Re: Snakes] #803853
09/20/14 12:00 PM
09/20/14 12:00 PM
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Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Snakes
As far as redaction is concerned, any identifying information (SS#, driver's license numbers, etc.) need to be redacted by law. Information concerning informants will probably always be redacted as well. Also, just because someone has not been identified in a court of law as being associated with a criminal outfit, it does not mean that their name will be redacted from files. I have seen lists of family memberships that have not been redacted - being a part of a crime family or even associating with known members isn't technically against the law (unless there are parole restrictions against that individual). Blood family members will, however, almost always be redacted.


There should be a time limit that allows the release of the names of informants, let's say five years after their death. Some informants like Valachi, Scarpa and Gentile and now public, but Frank Bompensiero is still redacted. There are many other informants who have been dead for decades and there's no need to keep the info secret after all this time. Then there are redactions for procedural reasons. There needs to be a time limit on that too. For example some of the 1930s public enemy files are redacted. That's over 80 years ago, and they're still going to make that claim?!? It's secrecy overkill.

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