Exactly. Even the Feds now realize that it's attrition more than prosecutions that will shrink the American mob. And attrition takes not just years, but generations .

I'm not particularly pissed off at the thought of the gambino's decline I'm far from a mob groupie , it just pisses me off wen people who r clueless about the mob who find it easy to lay the blame for the decline of the mob at john gottis door , it's ridiculous .

Well that makes a lot more sense, Dom .

Like I said, it's attrition that will eventually shrink them more than anything else. Not law enforcement. Not one lousy leader (like Gotti, for instance).

I think a lot of it is society in general , young guys wanna be rich yesterday , they don't give two fucks about taking orders from a bunch of old dudes . The traditional old values of respect are long gone , half of them r drug dealers because it doesn't require brains and it's the quickest way to get rich . It my thing these days not our thing

I dont think anyone lays the blame for the decline of the mob at John Gotti's door.

What I do think is that he personified a transition in the mobs behaviour which played an important part in the its decline. Or at least speeding it up.

John's flashy lifestyle marked the transition from the old school to the new, and with it put the mob in homes across America and on flashed on newspaper headlines. Forcing the Feds hand to act.

So no, JG isn't solely to blame, but neither is he innocent either.

That's right, Sonny. Gotti wasn't one hundred percent to blame. But he WAS the poster boy for what went wrong with the American mob in the '80s .

That makes sense sonny

LOL….I agree with you. I can't see rooting for one criminal organization over the other. A bunch of lowlife scumbags are lowlife scumbags regardless of what organization they are a part of. But for a lot of people, the 'Mafia' seems to be a fuzzier, kinder, more noble criminal organization that, falsely, has been advertised as being a collection of Robin Hood-like local knock-around guys who are basically good guys with just a little edge. I mean, they hang around the old neighborhood, they sip espresso and eat cannoli at the local deli, and they give a few bucks to the local down-and-outs -- what's not to love and admire, right? Plus, Hollywood has been glamorizing these guys for decades now, so a large part of the American public is aware of and fascinated by these local rogues who supposedly have a higher code of honor and conduct than your everyday, run-of-the-mill lowlife criminal.

It's all rather pathetic in my view. But that whole romanticized vision of the Mafia is hard to shake for some people, which is why so many seem to get offended when other criminal groups come along and, god forbid, steal some of the American Mafia's notoriety or press coverage.

Well put. But just for the record, Dom Woods isn't like that. There was just a breakwown in communication between the two of us. He's a bloody good Englishman .

But those other gangs and criminal organizations don't have to be as big as the LCN per se, they just have to exist and operate. The point being that there are a collection of other competing organizations out there vying for control or parity over many of the same vices on which the LCN thrives. For many decades, the LCN controlled vast parts of the drug trade in and around the Northeast area. What about today? The drug trade was highly lucrative; you don't give that up or disinvolve yourself from it without a good reason. And a large part of the the LCN moving away from the drug trade had to do with the fact that they could no longer keep the drug business firmly under their control. These aren't the Pizza Connection days anymore; too much competition and too much money involved for any one organization to control the drug game. And that's just one area, one example.
The neighborhoods that used to be predominately Italian have changed; as a result, LCN doesn't control or influence large parts of their former neighborhood strongholds. Too many hispanic, Asian, and South American residents now, many of whom have their own ties to ethnic organized crime.

And the gang thing -- compare the number of documented street gangs from say, 1950-1970 to the present day, and you will find an astronomical increase. It's no longer possible for a Mafia Don like an Al Capone to actually oversee and/or control crime in any one city or area; there's too many local gangs with way too many 'soldiers' to do that. And even though the LCN and your typical street gang operate on different criminal spheres, they are bound to interact and/or intersect at various times in the interest of making a dollar. Pornography, theft, hijacking, gun running -- there are many areas where the LCN's interests and those of street gangs are likely to collide. And do you honestly think an LCN capo or boss can simply waltz in and say, 'I'm part of LCN', so get out of my way because I'm in charge? All criminal activity here is controlled by me and my family!
I doubt that.

It's just a changing of the times. The LCN was a major powerhouse pre-1990; today it's still a force, but not even close to what it once was.

although far less powerful than the past it seems to be still the most powerful single crime group when compared with street gangs or even russians in the states

Thanks pal ha ha

Well, you had Jarrett in 1999, Chiaramonti in 2001, and Zizzo in 2006. I don't think the mob really has to drop the bodies like it used to. And today, it's riskier than ever with sophisticated law enforcement and, of course, the chance of a guy flipping and talking about it. It seems the mob uses it very selectively and often as a last resort.



The Mafia vs. street gangs (or the newer OC groups for that matter) is a subject that the media loves to play up but the truth is, people would be surprised at how little of an issue it is. Generally speaking, while they may all be crooks, members of the LCN and those in street gangs live and operate in very different worlds. And what overlap or connections there are tend to be respecting each other's territory and/or working for mutual profit. Drugs is by and large the activity that newer OC groups and gangs (street, prison, OMG) have taken over. This is because the LCN, due to geography, was never in a position to control cocaine or marijuana. Or even heroin later on when the Colombians and Mexicans began refining their own high-grade product. But this really hasn't affected the LCN as much as some may think, as it has always been more gambling-centered anyway and the families (especially in New York) continue to be rather diversified.

Also you can't forget internal conflicts as a factor too.