Perhaps I'm overlooking something BIG, but what exactly did Fredo do? I can only assume because he says "I swear I didn't know it was a hit" that he is telling the truth. So what exactly did he do??

And who guns down the two gunmen that were found in the ditch? It had to be someone that knew that the hit failed, and supposedly Fredo didn't know about the hit. Also, I can't picture Fredo gunning anyone down.

Do you think he was lying and that he knew it was going to be a hit and that he wanted to take control of the family?

After years and years of being a Godfather fanatic, I never took the time to analyze it until I joined this BB. I just assumed that Fredo was duped into opening Mike up to be killed unknowingly, but that seems unlikely now...

I believe he was duped. How could he have willingly killed his brother. We all saw how badly affected he was when Vito was shot. How could he KNOWINGLY kill his brother, it would have torn him to pieces as it did Mike killing Fredo. As for the other gunmen, perhaps there were more people on the inside than we know, or maybe it was a mistake that Coppola and Puzo didnt want to bother fixing.

Don Ferro

Made Hagen? I didnt know, congrats on the new rank, I hope to be there soon, Nice new advar too.

What got things going down hill for Fredo, is when he got caught in the lie about knowing Johnny Ola. Michael suspected Roth of tryin to assasinate him, and Johnny Ola was his man. Combined with this Fredo's little speech in the boat house, about how he was passed over, yadda yadda yadda, Michael proably saw him as a threat down the line as potential enemy.

Most of your questions have been discussed here previously. We can only speculate what Fredo might have done, because the movie choose not to explain. He may have been the one to open the drapes in Michael's bedroom, or he unknowingly gave access to Michael's house to the person who did open the drapes. We know Fredo was dissatisfied with his place in the family. In the deleted scene were he and that trampy wife arrive at Anthony's party, trampy wife says "why are you afraid of your own kid brother"? The look on Fredo's face when he replies "because he's the head of the family" says a lot about his anger about his place in the family. He lied about knowing Johnny Ola. We don't know who killed the hitmen. I doubt if it was Fredo and so on and so on and so on.

Do a search and you will find many topics on this subject.

___________________________________________

Yeah, I left it noisy, scares away any pain-in the-ass innocent bystanders.

Leslie you are right, I did the search and this has been talked about many times before. But like in this thread, no one has a definite answer. I suppose he could have been the one to open the drapes, but he would have to be VERY stupid not to suspect anything. I know that he was involved with Roth and Ola (duh?!) but I want to know EXACTLY the role he had in it. I can't figure it out, and I'd like to see the opinions of others on the BB. I suppose Ola or his men could have killed the 2 gunmen, but weren't Mike's Family the only ones there after the party? This would mean it would have to be Fredo (or his men, but this is never stated. it looks like a solo operation as far as Fredo is concerned). This leads me to believe that Fredo knew it was a hit; it also contradicts with the rest of the film, in which Fredo knew nothing about it. In my opinion, this is the only fault with this film: they never state what Fredo "did"!

BTW, Don Ferro, thanks for the compliments. Alexander Supalov had the same avatar, and it kept making my head spin when he would reply to me. So I went with this one, and changed my sig to boot! And I feel like a new man now that I'm a "made member".

HH, this is one of those film puzzles that just gives us food for speculation. Fredo's involvement could have been as simple as telling J.O. which room was Mike's, or opening the drapes, or giving them some other insider info, but we're not privy to it. The only thing we know is that Fredo told Mike that Johnny told him Mike was being tough on the negotiations and if he could help out. Michael didn't even ask Fredo for specifics.

And how did those hitmen from NY get on the property. After many viewings and to complete a piece of the puzzle, I "supposed" they came in the boat that we see slowly cutting across the lake in the night. If you remember the scene, it is after dark at Anthony's party. There is a shot from the water, looking on shore at the lights, and a silouette of a small motorboat is seen coming from left to right....those were the hitmen!!! At least that's the scenario I came up with.

My feeling is that Fredo knew exactly what he was involving himself in. That was why he was so upset when he told Mike how he got involved- because he never thought he'd have to face his living brother. Sort of like Carlo. Michael knew all along that Carlo was involved in Sonny's death but it wasn't until the end that Carlo finally admitted it. And I think that is why Mike told Fredo that he was nothing to him anymore because he took sides against him. My feeling is that all evidence points to Fredo being invloved in the actual hit. As far as the hitmen go, my guess is that they were killed because "deadmen tell no tales."

Hi!

I have always supposed - rather inflexibly - that this was one of Corleones' patrol boats. Gee, you may be right - sneaking in like one of them under the cover of darkness... And the music in that scene - not exactly jolly, and now we may know why.

Great idea!

Best regards.

Alexander

This is an interesting question. I still go with Fredo being fooled into thinking by helping Roth, "there would be something in it for him". I think we are all in agreement that Fredo wasnt the sharpest knife in the drawer. When approached by Roth he didnt have the farsight to see what helping Roth would entail. Afterall this is a guy whose big job was to pickup people at the airport and run mickey mouse nightclubs.
By the way, even though abbreviations are acceptable on the board, I would like my favorite (Johnny Ola), referred to with his full name and not his Initials (J.O.) Thank you......

I do not believe Fredo knew it would be a hit. I believe his speech in the boathouse. I don't think he was lying to Michael. The phone call he received after the attempt also reinforces this when he says "you guys lied to me". I believe he had a momentary feeling of self importance when Johnny Ola approached him about helping with the "negotiations".

Fredo may have been instrumental in getting Johnny Ola the meeting with Michael on the day of Anthony's party, and the hitmen were unknowlingly allowed on the property as part of Johnny Ola's entourage.

As for who killed the hitmen. If we look at the history of gangland slayings, we know that hitmen are often killed after a failed hit, sometimes even a successful one. You f-up...you get clipped. They were probably killed by a third higher-ranking hitman who was with them. Granted in real-life the bodies are not usually found at the scene of the hit, but that was just a good ole plot device.

________________________
Senator, we're both a part of the same hypocrisy but never think it applies to my family.

...ya gotta get up close like this and BADA BING blow their brains all over your nice ivy league suit.

I have to assume that Johnny's Men killed the assassins be4 the Corleone Button Men can capture them. Nobody likes Squealers

Well, this is the Great Mystery of the Boards, given how often the topic has come up. We'll never know for sure, and that's part of the fun of being a GF Trilogy nut. I'll offer a few guesses :
--Fredo probably knew it was gonna be a hit, and may have helped by opening the bedroom curtains so that the shooters would have a better shot. Yeah, he's weak and stupid, and is "so sweet," seems like an unlikely fraticide. But note the venon he hurls against Michael in the boathouse scene: the mark of a guy with a serious grudge.
--The dead shooters may have been with the Rosato Brothers. They're not recognized (so they can't be Johnny Ola's men), and they're "out of New York," which is where the Rosatos operated. Roth may have convinced the Rosatos, with whom he was allied, to supply the shooters. Then Roth probably arranged for the shooters to be killed.
--Who shot the shooters? No idea. Notice that, after the alarm goes off, you briefly see gates being closed and a car screeching away. That car could have been a Corleone security car about to patrol the estate, or perhaps the shooters escaping. I doubt that they were Johnny Ola's men: too risky to leave them behind for that job.

I must respectfully disagree with you TB, and go along with Leslie on this one.

I take it at complete face value when Fredo tells Mike "I didn't know it was gonna be a hit". But even if you want to discount that statement because he had incentive to lie to Mike, his statements to Ola ("You guys lied to me...you got me in enough trouble already"), to whom he had no reason to lie, cannot be discounted.

The more important question for me, as many of you know, is "Who killed the assasins?"

Again, taking certain character's statements at face value is one device a screenwriter uses to move the plot along. When Mike says to Tom something like (not the exact quote, here) "Unless I'm mistaken, they're dead already...killed by someone close, inside, afraid because they (the killers) botched it", I believe we are meant to think Michael is 100% correct in his analysis. And since, IMO, it is ridiculous to think that Fredo killed them, there is the inference of traitorous conduct by someone other than Fredo.

Johnny Ola, please forgive me, no disrespect intended with J.O. . Dominic Chianese is my favorite Soprano, love your avatar. I tried to save on my typing, hence the J.O., but I never thought "Ola" was a good Italian name for the film. Almost sounds like you're saying Hello in Spanish. Adios.

MaryCas, no offense taken, its something I have had to live with all my live with those intials. My brother had it worse, He Brian Joseph, so you can imagine the fun the kids had with his intials

Gee I always thought Ola was a perfect Italian surname. Most Italian names have many vowels in them, and always end in a vowel. I think our name was shortened from Viola....

From what I see, I think that Fredo smuggled in the assassins by boat (hence Lake Tahoe). He probably was the one also who killed the assaassins, so that no one would know that he was the traitor.

From what I see, I think that Fredo smuggled in the assassins by boat (hence Lake Tahoe). He probably was the one also who killed the assaassins, so that no one would know that he was the traitor.

And what exactly do you think the scenario was where weak, stupid Fredo, who bobbled his gun the day his father was shot, killed two hired assasins?

And don't you take his statements "I didn't know it was gonna be a hit (to Mike)" and "You lied to me" and "You guys got me in enough trouble already (to Ola)" at face value? Fredo was no killer; I think he opened the drapes, but that's about it.

That's exactly the way I feel P. Lawrence. I don't know if he opened the drapes, but all the statements you mentioned by Fredo, I think, were said aincerely. He could never intentionally have any family member killed.

True, maybe he was stupid/naive for not thinking it would be a hit, but that's Fredo! I still don't know for sure who killed the assassins at Tahoe, but again, I don't think Fredo had it in him to kill anyone!!

TIS

Michael, why are the drapes open.

I can't imagine Kay getting ready for bed with the drapes open. Considering there are supposed to be security guards patroling the compound. So I can only assume that when she laid down they were closed. But how someone could get in there and open such a wide expanse of drapes without waking her is hard to believe. Yet she is surprised to see them open. Fredo did not know it would be a hit, he did not open the drapes. That line adds fuel to a fire that can't be put out.

Hi!

Two assassins with submachineguns had their throats slit. Unless they ran out of ammo, which is unlikely, one man had very, very slim chances to pull this trick alone.

And I doubt that Fredo was in a position to do this assisted either. This must have been two other men - or one Rambo, if we turn to fairy stories.

Best regards.

Alexander

Excellent point, Leslie. No matter who opened them, or was supposed to have opened them.