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Was it easier back then? #769119
03/21/14 06:32 PM
03/21/14 06:32 PM
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JacobJ Offline OP
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Was it easier back then for something like the Italian Mafia to get powerful? Could some organized crime group ever get as massive as that again in the U.S., or even many small organized groups of crime?

I feel like especially after that era, we really have started to understand bribery of officials, intimidation, threats, and basically how it all works.

Does this mean the U.S. is so equipped with the info to fight back against organized crime that we will see another organized crime group rise? (Not rooting for crime, it is just a thought).

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769123
03/21/14 06:54 PM
03/21/14 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 656
Boca Raton
NNY78 Offline
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Welcome Jacob. I would say its unlikely in this day and age that we will see the LCN return to its former prominence, however other OC groups appear to be growing in size and strength like the Russians. I think you make a great point, while the feds focus on one group the others seem to flourish.

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769153
03/21/14 10:28 PM
03/21/14 10:28 PM
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mike68 Offline
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RICOH laws. It will never be easier.

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769182
03/22/14 06:35 AM
03/22/14 06:35 AM
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mickey2 Offline
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this is one of the dumbest questions i ever read here. Think about electronic surveillance, rico and so on.. it will never ever be that easy as it was last century

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: NNY78] #769267
03/22/14 06:29 PM
03/22/14 06:29 PM
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mulberry Offline
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Originally Posted By: NNY78
Welcome Jacob. I would say its unlikely in this day and age that we will see the LCN return to its former prominence, however other OC groups appear to be growing in size and strength like the Russians. I think you make a great point, while the feds focus on one group the others seem to flourish.


Other groups can make money but they will never wield the power or influence LCN had from the 1930's - 1980's

It's not that hard to make money illegally. Just start dealing drugs. You won't last that long on the streets, but you can make plenty of money. The Eastern European groups are smarter with their white collar crimes and human trafficking that don't result in long prison sentences.

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769273
03/22/14 08:03 PM
03/22/14 08:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 316
North StL County, MO
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StLguy Offline
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Something else that is worth mentioning (at least with respect other organized crime groups vs. euarasian organized crime) is that the US now has good relations with many "traditional" OC 'root' countries. While American LCN has been independent for a long time, it is harder for it to work with actual Italian OC because Italy has also gone on the anti-mafia kick in the past few decades. The Mexican cartels are finding more resistence in Mexico and the Colombia has cooperated with the US against its cartels in the past. Russian OC is different though. The Russian state is hostile to the US and actually has OC elements within its ranks. I don't think that there is a lot of cooperation with US authorities. I honestly think that they are going to use organized crime as a form of asymmetric warfare. I think they can get more powerful if they develop a commission type body in the US.

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769277
03/22/14 08:12 PM
03/22/14 08:12 PM
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North StL County, MO
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StLguy Offline
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We know that LCN had a significant amount of nation wide power in the middle of last century that was shattered in the 80s and 90s. What I think may be a more interesting question is whether an OC group can thoughly dominate a major metropolitan area or and entire state today (instead of something nation wide). Can it be said that, while LCN has a lot of competition in NYC, that it dominates New Jeresy? I don't really think it can be said that any group dominates California. There seems to be a lot of competition out there, even between different mexican groups. In the rust belt there doesn't seem to be anyone too dominant. I think if some group got sophisticated enough they could dominate a city like St. Louis or Cleveland, but that's a big if. I think that there is a sort of cultural arrogance amongst modern americans that precludes the type of order taking mentality that would be necessary for that kind of thing.

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769306
03/22/14 11:53 PM
03/22/14 11:53 PM
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jace Offline
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They were a secret group, that was their strongest point. An organization of that size and scale growing in secrecy would not be possible now.

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: mickey2] #769584
03/25/14 08:31 AM
03/25/14 08:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
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JacobJ Offline OP
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Ah, but with new technology, it prospers both sides.

Everyone else makes good points. We probably won't see another sort of organization like LCN in the U.S.

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769629
03/25/14 03:35 PM
03/25/14 03:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: JacobJ
Was it easier back then for something like the Italian Mafia to get powerful? Could some organized crime group ever get as massive as that again in the U.S., or even many small organized groups of crime?

I feel like especially after that era, we really have started to understand bribery of officials, intimidation, threats, and basically how it all works.

Does this mean the U.S. is so equipped with the info to fight back against organized crime that we will see another organized crime group rise? (Not rooting for crime, it is just a thought).


You had several factors coming together that gave rise to the Mafia in the U.S. A self-sustaining criminal subculture that could outlast it's competitors. Institutionalized corruption in local governments and police departments. Prohibition, of course. The rise of the union movement. Ineffective law enforcement. Etc.

Despite many predictions, no other group has assumed the level of influence the LCN did at it's peak because these factors above no longer exist.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: IvyLeague] #769645
03/25/14 05:17 PM
03/25/14 05:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 23,296
Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Despite many predictions, no other group has assumed the level of influence the LCN did at it's peak because these factors above no longer exist.

Exactly. It's not for a lack of smarts or balls, it's that no other ethnic group today will ever enjoy the same set of circumstances. The 20's and 30's were the perfect storm to give rise to a criminal conglomerate like the American Mafia.


"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: pizzaboy] #769664
03/25/14 07:11 PM
03/25/14 07:11 PM
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Posts: 2,017
SonnyBlackstein Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
....were the perfect storm


And it didn't even involve George Clooney


MORGAN: Why didn't you fight him at the park if you wanted to? I'm not goin' now, I'm eatin' my snack.
CHUCKIE: Morgan, Let's go.
MORGAN: I'm serious Chuckie, I ain't goin'.
WILL: So don't go.
Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #769668
03/25/14 07:20 PM
03/25/14 07:20 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,845
cheech Offline
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Mafia were the lobbyists today. A lot of power came from political clout that is now but all gone

The days of tony Salerno making millions from a milk crate in east Harlem are far far far gone


When Interpol?
Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: jace] #769685
03/25/14 09:22 PM
03/25/14 09:22 PM
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MikeyO Offline
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Originally Posted By: jace
They were a secret group, that was their strongest point. An organization of that size and scale growing in secrecy would not be possible now.


Very well put

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: pizzaboy] #770520
03/30/14 05:18 PM
03/30/14 05:18 PM
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MikeyO Offline
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Originally Posted By: pizzaboy
Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Despite many predictions, no other group has assumed the level of influence the LCN did at it's peak because these factors above no longer exist.

Exactly. It's not for a lack of smarts or balls, it's that no other ethnic group today will ever enjoy the same set of circumstances. The 20's and 30's were the perfect storm to give rise to a criminal conglomerate like the American Mafia.


Is that an intro for a biography channel special?

Re: Was it easier back then? [Re: JacobJ] #770580
03/31/14 05:13 AM
03/31/14 05:13 AM
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night_timer Offline
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Scammers have had to increase their sophistication because law enforcement has also ramped up its technical efficiency.

Evidence is frequently obtained illegally. It can't be used as evidence in court, but it adds to police intelligence and knowledge.

Here's an example:

Security cameras cannot be placed in to public toilets, for example in disco's where police suspect drug dealing goes on. Police install tiny security cameras anyway, because it lets them know who to begin surveilling in greater detail.

Last edited by night_timer; 03/31/14 05:14 AM.

"It was all crap, right up to the moment he died" - an investigator's opinion - and epitaph - of John Holmes (Johnny Wadd)

"Drunk words are sober thoughts" - Anon.

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