Since the Black Guerilla Family thread turned into a thread about biker gangs, I've decided to create a seperate thread on this topic.

Hells Angels and to a lesser extent Satudarah are really the only biker gangs of note in Europe (where I come from) and in Canada. In the USA the other big OMG's (Pagans, Outlaws, Bandidos, Mongols, Vagos, Sons of Silence) seem to play a much larger role in organized crime.

It would be interesting to hear from people who have already dealt with biker gangs themselves. Who they think is the most powerful, dangerous, violent,...
The FBI once classes OMG's as the third major type of organized crime in the USA, behind the traditional American mafia and the Eurasian organized crime groups. Is this claim justified (speaking strictly about the US)?

All depends the area your in.my vote for most violent would go to pagans or outlaws.go to martinsburg wva or winchester va and u have warlocks all over the place. The warbird warlocks not philly warlocks.there are also HA outlaws and pagans in and out the area.the warlocks will get together and roll out in a second wen pagans are spotted tho.i hve seen that but i didnt know they didnt get along till then

Funny story warlocks crabfeast 2002i or3 i got blacked out drunk at 17years old.stripped of everything but my shoes and socks and then woke up by my uncle n a bunch o warlocks telln me lets go get drinks the the drag races in the field or sumthn startn i was walked the prolly 50yards butt ass naked with no idea until i got to the drink tent.people were stopn me n posin for pics n shit it was pretty crazy but sooooo much fun.cant wait till the next big party

I also saw a programme about the Warlocks. They seemed like tough but generally good guys that love throwing a party. Pagans and Outlaws on the other hand came across as absolutely crazy

Yea they def are.pagans ran HA outta philly.warbird warlocks are good guys for the most part and if ur friendly with em they have your back 100percent. My uncle is in the martinsburg/inwood ch.dnt wanna say his name in the open tho but hes pretty crazy.he only prospected for 4or5minths n was full patch.also close to helltown/frnt royal chapter.ive watched em roll en mass to there cus2pagans were in town.....lol ive also seen 2 warlocks make 6guys take off there sons of anarchy cuts in inwood wva.dnt wear a 3piece patch if ur not a 1%.they dont like that shit

Yea they def are.pagans ran HA outta philly.warbird warlocks are good guys for the most part and if ur friendly with em they have your back 100percent. My uncle is in the martinsburg/inwood ch.dnt wanna say his name in the open tho but hes pretty crazy.he only prospected for 4or5minths n was full patch.also close to helltown/frnt royal chapter.ive watched em roll en mass to there cus2pagans were in town.....lol ive also seen 2 warlocks make 6guys take off there sons of anarchy cuts in inwood wva.dnt wear a 3piece patch if ur not a 1%.they dont like that shit

The Outlaws are the main ones in Illinois.

I am familiar with two of these gangs,And i have the same experince as Tommy.Three of the wheels of soul gang workrd for me for 20 years.Two of them black one white .The one was Pres of south jersey chapter other was black guy was sergeant of arms. White guy was a hang a round he is now full patch.

The guy that was pres. in still in but he lives in N.C. now so he can,t hold the top spot. The guy that was sarg. left the chapter about 10 years ago. The white guy is very active .and still works for me.

Pagans : A guy i went to school with that got killed at a young age his brother and i became close and through the years he drifted into the biker life.In mid to late 90s he moved up to pres spot in the south jersey chapter. He is not that any longer . I have spoke to him recently he called to see if he could hunt on some property i have out in EHT .

But i have only good words to say about all these hard working family men, all good people.The guy that was pres. of wheels has 14 kids.Dam i guess he had to work hard he is retired now down south...

Mmost are hard working normal guys.they just wear a patch.but like any group ull always have people that r bad

Hey guys great to see this thread. anyway I think I was a little biased towards the Hells Angels in my last post. They do indeed have some real scum bags working for them. there is a full patch member I think he is from NYC but I could be wrong. His name that he goes by is Dirty Diamond Don or Triple D. He is a stereotypical pimp. All of his girls are young drug addicts, which he beats in typical pimp fashion (burnings, slashing a girl with a straight razor, and beating them with his fists). He is a great example of how white pimps can be just as bad as any other ethnic group.

I agree that although all the 1%'s have scumbags in them, people join the clubs for different reasons. Some join to make money and others join to live a degenerate lifestyle. Clubs like the Hells Angels tend to recruit money men while the other clubs such as the Outlaws go for the biggest, sickest, assholes they can find. The Outlaws do have guys that are business minded (ex. Mark Polchan of Chicago, but in my personal life experience, they tended to be more reckless and violent than any of the other 1% clubs.

I forgot who mentioned it, I think it was Scorsese, that many of the smaller outlaw clubs tend to be more violent. In my personal experience, this statement rings true. The Breed as I previously mentioned is the worst group I have personally encountered. The Devil's diciples are not much better.

Here is a recent indictment involving the Rochester chapter of the Hells Angels.

http://www.fbi.gov/buffalo/press-release...ine-trafficking

This indictment is a great example of how the Feds make these guys look really dangerous and there are a ton of charges so it looks really bad. However, when you actually look at these charges we are talking about a few grams of meth sold here another few there. the headlining charge in this indictment involves an assault where several members of the HA were involved. I know all the guys indicted so I thought I would tell their version.

There is a female bartender at the bar Spenders on Lyell Avenue, who is a friend of the club. She was being harassed by a drunken guy who tried to pick her up, and when she spurned his advances he started to get nasty. She warned him to shut up but he would not stop. He threatened her and then he started threatening her HA friends. She then proceeded to call her HA buddies who came down and beat the guy half to death. I know the Feds would say an act like this helps to further the reputation of the Angels. My rebuttal is the HA have established themselves. Everyone on the planet knows them. they do not need to beat up some asshole to maintain their reputation. I do not think this act should be included as a RICO predicate act. I think many of the RICO cases fail against the HA because many of them are just like this. the government paints these guys as criminal masterminds, but the evidence shows them to be a bunch of slobs who like to get high and get into fights.

Another scam the Rochester guys are involved in is stealing scrap metal. A Rochester guy just got sentenced for doing this.

http://www.fbi.gov/buffalo/press-release...nt-from-railcar

Thnx for the post Gingello!
Several HA chapters are almost entirely dedicated to organized crime (British Columbia, Amsterdam, Trois Rivières, Turkey and Hannover), but there are more chapters that are barely involved in these activities. What people forget is that the men behind these chapters are gangsters that happen to be HA members. They use the notoriety that comes with the brand name to conduct their criminal activities, but that does not make an entire club a criminal organization.

The FBI once classes OMG's as the third major type of organized crime in the USA, behind the traditional American mafia and the Eurasian organized crime groups. Is this claim justified (speaking strictly about the US)?

No. Absolutely not. The days of nationwide speed rings, importing B.C. Bud, hookers in every strip club, bombings, and scaring the hell out of the Mafia are mostly over for the Hells Angels and the Warlocks and Pagans (I have family in the latter two). Motorcycle gangs are always scoffed at when they claim they are not a criminal organization but that's true in many ways. They are organizations with criminals in them but they aren't criminal organizations. There are as many guys working construction busting their ass everyday as making money in drugs and guns. Most of their members are 50 and over nowadays and they haven't really tried to recruit from the younger generation. I don't think they have the same taste for the kind of violence it takes to run a dirty business in today's market.

Alot of the Pagans and Warlocks I know do trade on their notoriety by having businesses that being seen as a "tough guy" helps. I know guys with bail bondsman/bountyhunter businesses, construction businesses, gun dealers, motorcycle shops, tattoo shops, things like that. Maybe an escourt service or two. But nothing as violent as the past. Too many of them died or are doing years for that stuff so I think the old guys have passed that on to the youngsters.

The American Bandidos have a new center patch now but the Bandidos outside America have the original Bandidos patch. Whats up with that?

Outlaw motorcycle clubs don't fit the criteria of Organized Crime groups.In a Mob family for example,every member is expected to conduct illegal activity and generate income from said activity. You get made because you are an earner,and in some cases,you have done "work" for the Organization.
You don't see Mob guys whose sole income source is a real job,or who never commit a crime.

In an Outlaw Motorcycle Club,you do have some criminal activity,and some members do more than others,but it's not an absolute must for getting your patch.The dominant Club in my area is the Pag*ns,and I know of at least two members who have no criminal records,work normal jobs,and are generally pretty cool people.They love to ride,love the brotherhood,and live and breathe the Club.

There's no question that some members are involved in criminal activity,but it is not across the board for everyone in the Club.If you choose to conduct an illegal business,you are expected to kick a piece upstairs,and not to involve the Club if you are caught,but it's your call to go that route.

So as not to seem too naive,I understand that if you are bringing in serious criminal money, you may move up in the ranks faster,and achieve a certain status, but again that is the members choice and not a requirement for getting patched.

Wasn't there a hells angel leader in nevada who got caught transporting a truck full of child porn and apparently they all still support him?

I think the problem is if there are law abiding members of an mc how far are they willing to go or tolerate criminal activities of those amongst there ranks or support those with serious criminal convictions.

I think manitoba was the first area or province to declare the HAs as a criminal organisation.

I cant remember the guys name but they talk about it on theagingrebel.com .there convinced he was framed apparently the guy owned a legal prostitution house to. Ive read the story but cant remember specifics.boodan of the warbird warlocks was just arrested for messn with. A 14yr old n giving her xanax.he was a well known respected biker all over.the organizer of bodans big ride but as soon as he was arrested the club dropped him.i was at my uncle when he got called n told about it n told bodan is off limits and not to be talked to.not all clubs will accept that

I also remembered that a member of the Dutch Hells Angels was arrested because a large share of kiddie porn was found on his computer. He was immediately dispelled from the organization and received multiple death threats in prison though.

Warlocks have had some pretty bad guys in their club in the Pennsylvania area such as mud man simons, robert t nauss and they were even linked to some missing young girls that were later found dead in a swamp.

I agree 100% with BigRed. As I mentioned in a previous post, if you look at many of these indictments, the crimes charged are petty. If a normal person were charged with these types of crimes at most they would get a year in jail, but more likely they would get probation. Because these guys have patches they get 20 years when a normal person would get 1 year or less.

When I have talked to some of the Ha guys, they have conceded that many of the European chapters in particular Holland, is way more powerful than any US chapter. RICO is the biggest reason for this. In my opinion, when the HA members went north to talk to Mom Boucher and asked him to stop the violence, his response showed what influence the US Angels had on him. Since Mom essentially told them to go f**k themselves, clearly the US Angels had no say on what their international chapters do. I believe this was one of the pivotal moments when the Angels realized they could no longer control the club on an international level. I think the other 1% clubs have the same issues.

I believe you are referring to Dave Burgess,who was busted for the underage stuff. There is a reasonable doubt as to whether he was framed by Law Enforcement,and it certainly isn't out of the realm of possibility. If you do some research you can get both sides of the story and make up your own mind. As far as the HA,they would not support someone who they believed guilty of such a crime,so they must feel that it was a setup.

Generally speaking,a brother will always stand behind another brother in his Club.They do not snitch,or refuse to give aid to a brother in need. Your brother may not always be right,but he is always your brother.Dope dealing,extortion,murder,etc. are not the same as sex crimes involving kids. That kind of stuff is about the only crime that the Club will disown you for.

So i guess what you r saying that we have over zealous prosecutors judges police ect. And they judge people by there nationality" color" of there skin" and what clothes they wear.

I dont think they are the warlocks im talkn about.im talkn about the warbird born in fla.warlocks.i believe your referring to the philly based harpy patch warlocks.there are2clubs that use the warlocks name.

The pagans are the only club out of the big 5(HA,outlaws,mongols,pagans, bandidos) that dont have international clubs.

The Pag*ns are an unusual 1%er clubs in a number of ways.
They don't have a website.
They wear blue denim jackets as opposed to black leather (like most clubs).
They don't wear any bottom rocker on their colors.
They have no chapters outside the US, (but this may change,as there has been speculation that they may sanction a chapter in Germany sometime down the road).
For the most part the Paga*s have been content to remain low key and very selective as far as new members. Although the other major clubs bring in more money,the Paga*s have their own niche and territories,and do pretty well. The other clubs leave them alone due to their well deserved reputation for being able to "take care of business",and they are fine with that.

thanks for the info, didn't know that they were two separate clubs.

I found some good info on the pagans in pensylvania oc report from 1990, if you go down to pg206 theres an interview with a former pagan which goes through there culture and crimes also their altercation with members of the scarfo family.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/133208NCJRS.pdf

It may take a while to load up.and you may need to refresh it.

Here is an excerpt from one of Yves Lavigne's books about the Hells Angels. It talks about the connections in the past between the HA and the mafia.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z_gvnXf...igo&f=false

I was wondering if anyone can think of any examples where the Hells Angels or any other 1% clubs worked as hitmen for the mafia. Other than the Joseph Bonariggo murder in Cleveland in 1980 I cannot think of any. Any documentary you see about the HA they always talk about how they sometimes work as hitmen. I call BS on that. I heard Frank Fencl, the guy who killed Bonariggo was not on great terms after the murder with the club. Despite what Lavigne says, the murder was not okayed by the club. Any input you guys can give would be appreciated.

Interesting post Gingello! Everytime I read about the connection between the Mafia and OMG's, they always claim the Pagans are the ones most connected with the mob. I'm sure other clubs have those connections as well.

Thanks KillingJoke. You are right many of the other 1% clubs have connections with the mafia. The Pagans have been connected to the Philly mob. I think Joey Merlino and Steve Mondervigone (sp.) grew up together. Sometimes it seems the Pagans and the mob were at odds (during the Scarfo era) and more recently they seem to be more amicable, especially after Merlino became boss.

The Outlaws have been connected to the Chicago Outfit. Recently, Mark Polchan a full patch member worked with Mike Sarno fencing stolen goods. In the 1980s, the Outfit murdered an Outlaw who threatened to kill Joey Aiuppa.

The angels seem to have had more contact with various mafia families than the other 1% clubs. I will say that these interactions are on a personal basis and they are not club sponsored.