GangsterBB.NET


Funko Pop! Movies:
The Godfather 50th Anniversary Collectors Set -
3 Figure Set: Michael, Vito, Sonny

Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 66 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Shout Box
Site Links
>Help Page
>More Smilies
>GBB on Facebook
>Job Saver

>Godfather Website
>Scarface Website
>Mario Puzo Website
NEW!
Active Member Birthdays
No birthdays today
Newest Members
TheGhost, Pumpkin, RussianCriminalWorld, JohnnyTheBat, Havana
10349 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
Irishman12 67,618
DE NIRO 44,945
J Geoff 31,285
Hollander 24,164
pizzaboy 23,296
SC 22,902
Turnbull 19,518
Mignon 19,066
Don Cardi 18,238
Sicilian Babe 17,300
plawrence 15,058
Forum Statistics
Forums21
Topics42,387
Posts1,059,819
Members10,349
Most Online796
Jan 21st, 2020
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Vito's successor #51112
04/24/06 10:26 PM
04/24/06 10:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
Jimmy Buffer Offline OP
Underboss
Jimmy Buffer  Offline OP
Underboss
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 572
I recently finished reading the novel for the first time and one thing I found particuarly interesting was the conflict within Vito about who would succeed him as Don. I remember several times where Puzo mentioned that the title was not hereditary. This is something that isn't really shown in the movie. Obviously we see Vito's disapproval of Sonny's actions after the Sollozzo meeting, but throughout the whole movie it is generally implied that Sonny is without a doubt Vito's successor.

If Vito wasn't thinking that Sonny would take over, then who would he have chosen? Just as in the movie, there is reference in the novel to Clemenza's line about a time coming when he and Tessio could form their own families, so that leads me to believe that Vito wouldn't have turned it over to either of those two. Also, the way the line is spoken and written leads one to believe that this was something Vito discussed with his Capos at least several years ago, if not longer still, in the past.

I bring this up because Tessio's eventual betrayal was always considered "the smart move" because Michael didn't appear to be a great choice to succeed Vito, however, if Vito had any doubts about Sonny, then Tessio and Clemenza must have had serious doubts. After all, it's always easy to ignore your own children's faults. wink When Sonny temporarily takes over as Don in Vito's absence, Tessio and Clemenza both stay loyal.

Do you guys think that Tessio would have betrayed whomever Vito named as his successor as long as it wasn't him, or do you think Tessio turned traitor specifically in response to Michael's ascension? I always thought it was the latter from my movie viewings, but after having experienced the joy of reading the novel, I'm leaning more towards the former.


There is no theory of evolution. Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
Re: Vito's successor #51113
04/25/06 12:21 AM
04/25/06 12:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,466
No. Virginia
mustachepete Offline
Special
mustachepete  Offline
Special
Underboss
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,466
No. Virginia
Quote
Originally posted by Jimmy Buffer:

Do you guys think that Tessio would have betrayed whomever Vito named as his successor as long as it wasn't him, or do you think Tessio turned traitor specifically in response to Michael's ascension? I always thought it was the latter from my movie viewings, but after having experienced the joy of reading the novel, I'm leaning more towards the former.
Short answer: I think that Tessio as a character is supposed to show that intelligence, if misused, can lead us to ruin. That would seem to imply that his disloyalty sprang from his own mind, and that he would have reasoned out an excuse to challenge any rival after Vito.

I think it's fair to say that one of Puzo's themes is that intelligence makes "a good servant but a poor master". That theme really reaches its full extent in the movie Parts I and II. Every decision Michael makes is rational, but they lead him to destroy much of what he set out to protect.


"All of these men were good listeners; patient men."
Re: Vito's successor #51114
04/25/06 01:29 AM
04/25/06 01:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Fair question. Vito wanted Sonny to become a lawyer, but as you read, after Clemenza told Vito about some robbery Sonny had committed, Vito sighed, "A man has but one destiny." He was grooming Sonny as his heir, but he obviously despaired of making him a true successor. Fredo was out of the question.
Interestingly, Clemenza tells Kay (while giving her a ride back to her hotel after the wedding) that Michael would be the heir to the "olive oil business." That, I think was closer to the truth. I believe that, if Vito had had his way, Michael would have finished law school, entered politics, and eventually have been elected either Senator or Governor. In that position, he could have tried to "legitimize" the family's main businesses by working on legalizing gambling, and consolidating the Don's union activities into his own political campaigns. Sonny would have been the head of steadily diminishing "illegitimate" Corleone activities--the transition of gambling and union rackets while they became "legitimate," and providing muscle for Michael when needed.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Vito's successor #51115
04/25/06 09:05 AM
04/25/06 09:05 AM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
RIP StatMan
plawrence  Offline
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
Except for the fact - as I have disagreed with Turnbull about in the past - that I think that the knowledge that Michael's father was the head of a gigantic criminal enterprise would have precluded the possibility of Michael ever holding any elective office, I basically agree.

It was Vito's idea that the family become legitimate with Michael the lawyer as its head, and with Sonny in the backround winding up the family's increasingly less important criminal activities.

I think that somewhere in the movie or book or possibly both Vito says or suggests that he has some "special" plans for Michael, the implication being that what he has in mind might be something unique, and I think that given his knowledge about how Michael felt about a life as a criminal, that's what he had in mind:

Michael as the head of the first-time-ever legitimate Corleone Family, with the "Don" part of the equation playing a diminishing role.


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: Vito's successor #51116
04/25/06 10:02 AM
04/25/06 10:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Michael holding elective office would be (as in your signature, plaw), "difficult, not impossible." He might run for Congress from the Little Italy district that was Vito's operating headquarters, and where the Corleone name (and Vito's influence) could have put him in office. Michael could have behaved like Caesar's wife in office, completely distancing himself from any public or visible connection with his old man. Getting elected Senator or Governor would be more difficult, but not totally inconceivable.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Vito's successor #51117
04/25/06 12:15 PM
04/25/06 12:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
RIP StatMan
plawrence  Offline
RIP StatMan
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
Imagine the mud-slinging in that campaign, though lol

But seriously....

Historically speaking, at the time the existence of the Mafia or organized crime at that level hadn't been officially acknowledged by the government yet, nor even suspected by the general public, allowing Vito's criminal empire to flourish relatively under the radar.

I wonder if it would have been worth it to the Corleones to withstand the risk of exposing what would have almost certainly been exposed about them in a political campaign.


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: Vito's successor #51118
04/25/06 03:29 PM
04/25/06 03:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
AZ
I was thinking about that just today. I make a broad parallel between Michael, and another handsome WWII hero: John Fitzgerald Kennedy. Joe Kennedy had amassed a very unsavory reputation as a Wall Street pirate, Prohibition-era rumrunner and associate of Mafiosi, and a Hitler-admiring ambassador to the UK. Those associations dogged JFK throughout his political career. But JFK's status as a war hero, coupled with his father's undeniable political influence and money, sent him to the top. Of course, he made most of his progress before the internet, before television was ubiquitous and before investigative journalism got popular. Today, JFK's pecadillos and, uh, embellishments would have been exposed within minutes.
The parallel with Michael is that I think with Vito's money, influence and popularity in Little Italy, he'd easily be elected to Congress. Yes, the temptation for a foe to bring up his Mafia family would be very great if he ran for higher office. But Vito, like Joe Kennedy, could buy silence from opponents, or in Vito's case, intimidate them into leaving "Mafia" out of it. And Michael could always claim bigotry was motivating the attacks on him. As you'd say, "difficult, not impossible."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Vito's successor #51119
04/25/06 06:09 PM
04/25/06 06:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 276
Walter Mosca Offline
Capo
Walter Mosca  Offline
Capo
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 276
I believe Vito could have done that. I do not doubt his plans, and I don't think Puzo did, either.


"Jonny Tightlips... you're shot!
- whered' they get you?"
"I ain't sayin' nutin'."
"But what'll I tell the Doc?!"
"Tell'um to suck a lemon."

Moderated by  Don Cardi, J Geoff, SC, Turnbull 

Powered by UBB.threads™