Whadda you think ? Cleveland making a comeback or bowing out with help of Chicago/NY/Buffalo/or Pittsburgh ?Seems some NY guys livin there in Cleveland .By chance or for gains ? Makes you wonder. Amy thoughts

Cleveland does have a family, but the activity level is probably close to zero. The only mention of the Cleveland Family in recent years is Chicago Outfit made man Rudy Fratto mentioning that he had pull with the Cleveland Family regarding a debt someone from Chicago owed to them.

The gambinos are alive and well in Cleveland. Carmine agnello is out there on the DL

Is he active or was he shelved?

Carmine & his brother are here. Also a guy named Tookie.here from ny,to be active? To assist ?Add strength to a weakened family ?Might be so no one else moves in to take over.Still lot of $$$ to be made & for respect to Cleveland guys- they gotta answer to someone.

You think hes shelved or here for a reason ?Make sense to have a presence here,in a weakened area.But ties with Chicago through Fratto & Old man Janecce(tight with) DiFonzio)who was locked up w/ RJP, might make sense also Rumor has it somethings bout to jump shortly

^^Never heard that but is very interesting. I'd like to hear what JCB thinks about this.

Surely Agnello was shelved after that whole growing up gotti series.

Really, wow, this is a huge development, I'm shocked Agnello is out there. Is he in the scrap/junk yard business again..??

He has been in the area for years . He runs A auto parts shop from junked cars and A towing outfit . He may be on supervised release still. At least he was 2 years ago. He is tight with some Cleveland guys from his stint in federal prison.

As I have been explaining on these threads talking about "dead familes", the power and even existance of family structures ebs and flows.
I can recall in the 90s the FBI and media declaring the Gambino family dead, The Buffalo media on one hand claims the Arm is all but dead, and then in the same paper reports their activity.
Any given time in an LCNs history is a snapshop.For every indictment, conviction or death there are in most places, guys who have been waiting for their turn and oppertunity.

I don't usually post much in threads about the families outside of New York, and even more specifically, the Bronx crews. I don't know what's going on in Cleveland. And to be perfectly honest, I don't really care. If you guys say that there's still a strong LCN presence there, more power to you. Whatever floats your boat. But as far as Carmine Agnello goes, I can assure you that he was cut loose from the Gambinos years ago, and he's not there to oversee anything for that family.

It's probably true that he met some Cleveland guys in federal lockup. Criminals meet other criminals while in prison. That's an undisputable fact. But if he's doing anything with them in Ohio, it's independent of the Gambinos. He's a leper in that family.

OK- Here is the story. Cleveland LCN IS DEAD. It has been defunct for years. There are a few made guys left who run their own operations but there is no traditional structure and hasn't been for many years. Carmine Agnello is there for one reason: While he was in prison, he was friendly with a middle eastern powerful businessman that had ties to a terrorist group overseas and Agnello met his daughter when his daughter would come to visit her dad. They fell in love and he moved to Cleveland and married her. She is FILTHY RICH. They live in a very affluent section of town and he is not running any criminal operations for NY. I have researched this and confirmed this with not only the authorities, but with a few guys leftover from the Cleveland Family.

http://nypost.com/2008/07/14/gotti-ex-marries-terror-princess/

Before you spew this kind of inaccurate information, do your due diligence and at least report "a half truth" for the people on this board who really are looking for solid information.

Never said he was doing anything with anyone. He definitely is tight with a guys he did time with. With all of them being on supervised release they cant even meet up with out risking a violation. There is zero chance he is running Cleveland or there to rebuild . There is barely anything if anything left to run.

I wasn't addressing you specifically, Strococs. And I agree with you .

It's just that, well, you've been here awhile now, and you know how these boards can be. Pretty soon, some 19 year old kid will post that, "You KNOW that Agnello moved there for a reason, and blah blah blah."

I was just trying to kill such speculative nonsense before it started. Because as far as Agnello goes, I don't even like the guy. But he did his time, he got cut loose from the Gambinos, and now he's starting over. Granted, he's staring over with a very wealthy wife, which makes it a lot easier. But I'm sure that he'd like to leave New York in the rear view mirror, and it's honestly not fair to just assume that he's still committing crimes.

Here are a few articles of "run ins" with police that Agnello has had:

1. http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-hear...and-park-ranger

2. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/we...rticle-1.149329

3. http://www.manta.com/c/mmck3z7/charity-towing-llc (His Company in Cleveland)

I wasn't addressing you specifically, Strococs. And I agree with you .

It's just that, well, you've been here awhile now, and you know how these boards can be. Pretty soon, some 19 year old kid will post that, "You KNOW that Agnello moved there for a reason, and blah blah blah."

I was just trying to kill such speculative nonsense before it started. Because as far as Agnello goes, I don't even like the guy. But he did his time, he got cut loose from the Gambinos, and now he's starting over. Granted, he's staring over with a very wealthy wife, which makes it a lot easier. But I'm sure that he'd like to leave New York in the rear view mirror, and it's honestly not fair to just assume that he's still committing crimes. [/quote]

No big deal just wanted to clarify that I was in agreement with you. Outside of the normal corner cutting ALL wrecking yards do I bet he is fairly clean.

As JCB1977 said above, the Cleveland family is dead. There is no formal structure, nothing in the way of significant ongoing activity, and about 7 or so members still living. You won't find Cleveland on any FBI list of remaining families.

Why some people on these forums have such a hard time letting go (for lack of a better word) of these families that are no more, I'll never understand.

I think the term "letting go" implies that they actually lived through it. I honestly think it's more of a case where kids are pissed off that they were born too late and missed out on something, so they're constantly asking about the mob "making a comeback."

Because when these people get outed on these sites (and they always get outed), they usually turn out to be kids. And as far as grown ass men who can't let go? I'm not a psychiatrist. All I know is, the Internet has spawned a whole new breed of crazies.

Plus 1, 2 & 3 - Friend_of_ Henry.

Amen...you'd have to be real lunatic to strive for being a made member in this day in age, the last 30 years have been the decline...The final chapters will happen...it's inevitable

I wasnt assuming anything & that is why I left it open to people who know better. Have no problem if wrong & can admit it like a man .As a few people w/ real knowledge have said,most of the guys are legit & doin theyre own thing. They meet up here an there to talk about the good old days.Mind you though, theres alot of money here & open .

You're right. A rust belt city is a great place to be a bookie. That's why I'm sure there's more than enough INDEPENDANT bookies. Maybe even a couple of groups of bookies.

But the remnants of Cleveland LCN are too assimilated to reach out to NY families who have more than enough on their plate holding on to the rackets in the tri-state to even think about sending guys out to Cleveland to try and organize.

you know your shit whoever you are..its JANNECE though

I echo Ivy

I told you right off the cuff Im not made and wasnt even an associate.Had a uncle who was & thru him met everyone & I did alot of things for them .Funny I was promised alot but after all the arrests- well all went awry.JCB said it best- youd hafta be crazy.I tell you as a kid I was afraid of them rattin on me & stayed away . I figure im young & not connected & who loses but me. I really believe I was more solid than most of em.What about Gigi & Reggabutto(dead)?Names arent mentioned at all .Theres a guy whos heavy- Milanos nephew, owns an import place thats big & has a club Nido where alot of more recent guys all hang out( safe haven)

There is no doubt in my mind that many bookmakers are taking action in Cleveland...just not in the traditional structure of a mafia family of years past. RJ has done well with real estate and I'm sure Iacabacci has something going on. What always puzzled me about Cleveland (and most people don't know that they were one of the most powerful mafia clans in the country for many years, especially from the 1930's-1980's)is why John Scalish never had an army of associates to replenish the ranks when age & attrition caught up to them. Scalish was by far one of the most powerful dons of the Midwest, very well respected and had an extremely successful legitimate business in Buckeye Vending to show income for tax purposes, yet he didn't think about the future of the family (or at least on the surface it appears that way).

While RJ and Loose were newly made guys in the mid 1980's, they got in when the decimation was beginning. Jack Licavoli never should have been boss. Maishe Rockman had too much power and influence and the family should have went to Angelo Lonardo or somebody younger (any thoughts on who was most capable). The problem that I saw with the group of guys in Cleveland were that so many of them were street guys with muscle, not enough racketeers. Even in Pittsburgh, when Mike Genovese took over, he had Chucky Porter, Henry Zottola and Joey Naples/Lenny Strollo from Youngstown who he counted on to nurture and sustain the relationships with other crime families. I mean, Porter kept close relationships with Joey Aiuppa and Joe Ferriola in Chicago as well as Nicky Scarfo in Philly, Henry Zottola was very close to the Northeastern PA branch through Billy D'Elia and Joey Naples/Lenny Strollo in Youngstown kept very close to Jack Tocco in Detroit. It doesn't appear that Scalish/Licavoli had any young wiseguys who specifically furthered the business relationships with some of the bigger families. It seemed to have stopped after Scalish and Lonardo, two of the most respected Mafioso of their time...until Lonardo cooperated. The major problem was that Jack White didn't have any personal skills and as a matter of fact, it wasn't until Lonardo brought it to his attention that he should go to NY to introduce himself as the new boss to Fat Tony and the Genovese Family contingent. Salerno offered to have them make about a dozen new guys, but they didn't. This has always been a mystery to me.

You are absolutely correct. They were cheap & wante all. Didnt want to split the pot anymore than what they were. That is why im tryin to bring up topics is for others opinions who may know more than I do . Its not about lettin go, just cant figure how such power could just disappear, to almost nothin. Most are all legit w/ very profitable businesses & some deals for xtras.Loose is about laziest with nuthin going.Alot of car businesses,scrapyards,towing & such.As for relationships- they seem more to Chicago than New York.Agnello- well thats a story of its own. Theres an Irish group on westside under a guy Mcmahon(Green like) not as crazy & more low key.Seems to be musclin up & major connects.This friggin guy got more CPD w/ him than the district has.