A conversation with NickyEyes1 brought something to mind. Chicago Heights, Hammond, Detroit, Gary, Youngstown, Newark... all the same. The truth is the boys use these towns and their people just like everything else in their lives. Once they're done with a town they leave it to underlings and street crews but never quite completely abandon it or stop taking from it.

Most of these towns reached their zenith in the early to mid-1950's and have never recovered from being used as stepping stones.

E così la vittima tiene morendo

i thinks its more like the italians used to live in all the inner cities that you mentioned, but as they became more assimilated into society, they moved out of the cities and into the suburbs. and when they were gone, all the blacks moved in, and naturally turned the cities into the shitholes they are today.

Really dude?

It might be easier for some to stomach if what Dellacroce has suggested is true. Unfortunately as I've stated in the original post these towns were already waning as the classic mob era was still reaching it's zenith in Chicago and elsewhere. The fact is the bones are still being picked at. Sweetheart contract rigging on every municipal project since the cows came home. Ahh the quantity sheet...

Big cities went wrong way due to changing demographics, a fleeing middle class, and job opportuites going away. Youngstown and Pittsburg had all their troubles come along when steel mills started closing due to steel being imported from countries like China. The steel industry going bad was not fault of any crime family. Overcrowding is another issue which pushed people out.

Portland Oregan has some of the worst crime and fianacial problems of any major city, yet there was no major Cosa Nostra activity there. detroit had some Mafia activity, but it's trouble came from auto industry downsizing, and cars being imported from foreign countires more and more. Also Detroit had big change in population since 1950's, I don't see how that is due to Mafia bringing people in or moving them out. Large cities all over the world have same issues,
be they in France, Germany, or any other similar place in the world.

Things don't just HAPPEN. Jobs move out of cities because things cost too much within them, things cost too much within them because there are too many hands in the till whether the hands belong to unions or local governments. Get me?

The Teamsters local out of Gary used to pay us "volunteers" to show up at negotiations "dress nice, don't smile and make sure you're wearing your IBT button". None of us were union guys. We were paid by the union with funds taken from union dues to show up and intimidate - the "show of heads". Does psychological warfare in regards to local contract negotiations sound economical to you?

You're pinning the Rust Belt's bygone quality on the mob? You sound like the Prosecutor in the Philly case.

Most of these towns suffered because industry shut down and moved overseas, meaning the blue collar workers moved as well...which allowed the rift raft to move in and destroy proud communities.

@ Frank ~ I'm not pinning anything on anybody, just stating facts.

@JCB ~ And *why did the manufacturing move?

Disagreed...In the case of Youngstown/Pittsburgh/Cleveland/Detroit, industry moved out because the price of manufacturing steel in China and Korea were next to nothing. They pay workers over there 75% less than wages over here. When the steel and auto manufacturing started closing down plants in this geographic area, a lot of minorities moved in and destroyed once proud and hard working cities. As far as unions go, I do not think we need them at this day in age, but back in the 1930's-1970's, the working man was getting fucked and needed some protection. Get me?

It's the same with Intel, Dell, Microsoft etc...they are closing down regional headquarters and moving the work over to India, which is why you can't get anybody American on the phone with tech support.

Those towns reached their peaks in the early to mid 50's so that kills that argument...Unions are the key, always have been. Too many hands in the till, period.

Places like Youngstown, Pittsburgh and Cleveland detest the African Americans moving in and bringing down property value, which I'm sorry to say is a "fact." I am anything but racist, but these cities businesses were barely affected by the mafia. The working men drank and gambled and had the money to do so because work was plentiful and overtime was sky high due to steel production. Blame our government...blame that cocksucker that's in office right now who is destroying our country day by day and extending unemployment by a year, jacking up insurance rates on the middle class so the poor could have free insurance, allowing immigrants to come into this country and get free education...If you have children, you SHOULD be worried about their future cause this asshole is hell bent on ensuring they have nothing.

Show me numbers to back your claim. I'd like to see you demonstrate how unions affected steel companies and the auto industry. Unions were a small variable in a much bigger picture. Cheap labor equals more profitability. In the case of Youngstown, Pittsburgh & Cleveland, they weren't affected until 1971. They were booming in the 50's and 60's.

No need to be offended JCB, no offense intended. I'm not in court and history itself backs my claim. Mob infested towns were hit harder and fell faster. Truly it's never just one thing that caused our country's current predicament but that wasn't the subject of this post was it? At 50 I see more and more the difference between book learning and theory and experience. Those towns were all in decline *whether noticeable or not since the early to mid 50's. Not to mention the siphoning still continues to this day.

Not offended at all...I was born and raised in Youngstown when my parents emigrated from Italy...If you think about it, the city with the richest history of organized crime was New York...and the mob is still prospering (maybe not to the degree that it did), but still in relatively good shape.

*There's still plenty of taking to do in big cities, always will be. Not to mention that New Yorkers in general have always been a more local-minded bunch and with a city that size who can blame them?

that drunk career C- student is more to blame for our countries downfall

you can't blame the guy who got voted in to pick up the pieces

He's had 5 years to pick up the pieces and all he does is spend. The mantra is take, take, take, gimme, gimme, gimme. Healthcare, the crowning achievement, is in shambles. 53% of CNN viewers want the Affordable Care Act repealed. This guy is going to go down in history as a failure.

I'm an impartial pro union moderate but this guy is too left for me.

Amen!

You fellas seem to want to expand the subject beyond it's original scope. I was speaking about the effects of mob infiltration on smaller cities in the mid-west and East, my experiences there and my working life within them which spans from about 1978-1993 or so. What happened to The Sulky in the Heights and Carlo Lorenzetti's place in Hazel Crest? What about the fire at Washinghton Park Race track? Were these places burned for economic improvement of the Southside? I'm thinkin' no.

^^^^^^^^
True.

That steel situation was not the case when those towns began their decline, though it exacerbated the situation in later years. *And even so, Chinese and Korean steel being cheap in relationship to our domestic steel prices. Why would they be so much cheaper *once again ~ because things cost too much to do here. Why is that? Answer - too many hands in the till.

The very moment the unions became business interests within themselves all was lost. Why are the workers paid 75% less, they don't have to worry about union stooges with their hands in their pockets. The governments are the unions hahahaha

you can't save a ruined economy in five years

our economy may never get back to the way it was pre-bush

bush spent billions on fabricated wars and nobody seemed to care much

I blame the Cheney-and-his aides political machine that ran the show as Colin Powell, Condy Rice, and maybe Bush himself stood around ill informed. Not that those three are saints in any way, you know. There's a little truth in both sides but the war crimes, war profiteering, human rights abuses, and lies to the American public should never be forgotten ESPECIALLY when comparing presidents. What's my take on Obama? Way too inexperienced to be a head of state and sold out on his own healthcare platform to private insurance companies to appease the the GOP. I can't see any 'good' president doing half of the things he does but the times have changed. Seems any day now the tea party might declare its independence and we'll have a 3 party system. I don't know enough about economics to say what kind of job Obama has done digging us out of recession. I'm a liberal and he's done enough to make me mad but I would rather him than Bush any day.

I feel like I'm not contributing here and I apologize but OP, where is Gary and which mob fam had control? Thanks.

None of the crap about Obama/Cheney/whatever has anything to do with the original post.

Best post in the thread.