Listen man...I'm not on the side of stoolies or law enforcement...I had a few uncles and my grandpa who were all made and one being a Capo as part of the LaRocca Crime Family...believe me when I tell you that I do not take everything law enforcement says as gospel...However, I work a regular job and do research for several mob authors because I enjoy reading and learning about OC, but I'm also realistic and a stats guy and if anything has proved true, its that law enforcement has severely weakened OC activity and have put some of the most powerful mob bosses away for life and decimated families around the country. Do I believe that the FBI has railroaded some guys...absolutely...for what reason? They look at it as the ends justify the means. Like in the military in Afghanistan or Iraq, elite special forces have killed thousands of innocent people...for one reason...to rid the world of evil. It's a classic counter intelligence tactic. The CIA and how they have a broad ranging way of extracting intel from a captured Al Quaida member...starvation, water boarding, physical beatings to name a few. Is it ethical and moral? Probably not...but does it work in most cases? Yes...and that is evident by the success our government has had in killing or capturing guys like Hussein and Bin Laden.

Most wiseguys who come from the "old school" understand that the FBI has a job to do. Like with Baby Shacks, he was always courteous and friendly with the government and when he was indicted, he knew he was caught red handed and he took his sentence like a man but never complained he was railroaded. Not all FBI agents are ethical...but a majority of them are. They are guys who have wives and children and are looking to get rid of evil in society. Do I believe that illegal gambling, prostitution and loansharking are evil? NO...but drug dealing and murder certainly are. The young guys today in the mafia, lets face it, they do not carry the same old school values as the old timers did. Most of them were not born in Italy, do not understand the culture and tradition and honor of being a society guy...which is why you are seeing guys flipping left and right. There hasn't been a mob boss from Boston who has had any real success. It was Patriarca and Manocchio who were the backbone of New England LCN...the bosses from Boston were a joke from Salemme (who was half Irish), Limone and DiNunzio. The heavy hitters in Boston like Ferrara, Spagnolo, Quintina etc are getting up there in years and while they may still be earning, they don't have the muscle they once had. Are they capable? IMO, yes. Those guys know that in today's LCN, it isn't worth bringing heat. Rossetti was a piece of shit and will always be a piece of shit. DeLuca IMO was an informant longer than people realize and he gave up more than the strip clubs...he provided the Feds with a detailed list of who's who and the types of crimes they are involved with and he is still used as a source. The cheesesman will be dead in the near future as guys like him have heart disease and are more detrimental to themselves, he's no threat. Fatboy Anthony certainly is viewed as a joke and truly wasn't an effective Capo, let alone boss. The point is since the old man stepped down, New England is hurting as they can't find a capable leader.

Similar to Cleveland...when the top brass went away, some of the younger made guys like Joe Iacabacci and R.J. Pappalardo were reported to be rebuilding the family with the help of Chicago...well, they never rebuilt the family and they became nothing more than some guys who were made that became independent operatives and did their own thing. The Pittsburgh family had well over 100 associates and recently, there was a big illegal gambling bust...does that mean they have a family? NO, they are simply operating themselves as there is no family hierarchy. Guys like Patriarca and Manocchio don't come around too often and there is "nobody" who is younger that even come close to being as effective a leader as Ray or Baby Shacks...the heyday is OVER and slowly but surely they will cease to exist...like most other families.

jcb, you have plenty of great stuff to share, but you do really seem to carry some sort of a grudge against the phiily and new england families, as all of your posts try and frame them as on deaths doorstep with only a few random guys running around leaderless. we can sit here all day long and hype that they aren't what they used to be, but that's common knowledge and has been beaten to death. with all of the rats, state and federal cases against both families the amount of activity has been pretty consistent over the past decade, showing their resilience. i believe that outside of ny, they will be the last to go.

we can also argue about the #'s, most seem to be between 40-50 a piece. granted, not all of them are active, but just that number right there makes any comparison to cleveland null and void. without a doubt they are still actively making new members, so time will tell how long these guys can hold it together.

anyone know is frank anguilo still alive they said he went rite back to his house/million dollar apartment building that's in some family members name. he looked healthy as shit at his brothers funeral couple yrs ago. he one of those matty horse guys 100yrs old and still mafia. he would be the last brother alive they must have a ton of grandkids nephews ect. jerry was loan sharking out of fort devens he;s whole 20+ bid. remember some congress guy got caught up in some realestate scandal in the early 90tys tring to buy something or get a loan. there some funny lines in the book about buddy ciachi. old ass jerry getting sent to the hole yelling at co.s must have been close to frank locascio and don baldimenti they were all there for yrs. locascio still is I no somegirl married to a c.o, up there they make bank.

Aww all I have to say without making this debate any less pointless is the only thing your correct about is Tony Dinunzio. He was wreckless, stupid and a loudmouth and i assume he was put in that position b/c he can relate between Limone, fat dinunzio to others and keep his mouth shut and he was used as a target knowing he was going to take the fall if it was to happen and it did so thats a smart strategic move to say the least. But Anguilo was not the most effective boss but he was respected and did a pretty good job as underboss. Philip Buccola was a great Boss but we had great influential guys from Boston as well like russo, Cucchiara, lombordo, pryce quintina, sonny boy rizzo, john anselmo, henry selveltelli, henry temeleo, Nicolo and danny anguilo, Mr. Franseco Paul Intiso, Sandrelli, Scarpa and the lits goes on and i can say the same for providence. But this just sit back and watch Limone will bring this thing back to what it can be like in this day and age make it a little bit stronger Mark my word

But pmac as for frankie truthfully i believe he is still alive now i dont think he is still living in the north end as he was few years back at the socail clubs and all but i do believe he is with a family member that i heard but i may be wrong i will get back to you on that for more correct and accurate information on him

I posted a year ago that my cousin was giving baseball lesson to the son of a made guy that lived in Southern Mass. He got friendly with the father and would get VIP passes to the Foxy Lady and other "stuff".

My cousin said there were tons of guys around all the time and there was still a strong present of made guys in Providence. His words were "way more than anyone thinks". My cousin liked all the joints down there and this guy brought him and made introductions saying "this kid tutors my boy in baseball, make sure nobody messes with him"...

Do people forget Manocchio was at the head of the table for like 12 years. Do you think he just sat around watching the family dwindle. Rumor has it there was at least 4 button ceremonies during that time.

Plus, how long were the DiNunzio brothers on the scene for and making money, a longtime, they just didn't show up one day and take over.

Its needless to say that they are loaded down there in providence they always have and will be. Unless your really involved or know people or in my situation where you were born in around that life you wouldnt know esp if your pulling a JCB and listening to what the feds or DA reports than your really fooled and lost. Providence is loaded always has been and will always will be . For decades they had the most italians per capita in any city in the U.S. and i think the state did as well

Joerusso

Appreciate you're input, great reading. How many active made guys do you think they have in Providence? Why has the power base shifted to Boston if they are so capable in Providence?

Cheers.

The powershift is because Limone is probably the best next capable man to do it considering that everyone in providence who is capable are still soldiers by choice and some dont want the limelight due to technology, rats, change in the way things were etc and other things as well and they are all old in their 50's-80's so they just want to make their ends and live queitly without the headache of being skipper. I personally believe there is 20-30 made guys in providence. I mentioned a few people dont know about, some we know of from recent indictments and some are just behind the shadow BUT i wouldnt be suprised a bit if there were more considering thats a whole other world down there for sure of how they do things. Its so crazy alot of boston guys dont have a clue who is the providence guys at all. Years back a bunch of providence guys came up for the st anthony festival and they got introduced to boston guys mostly the younger crowd costa, RIP cono fritz(frizzi, few other guys was there and like 10 providence guys and was introduced to eachother by couple capo's achille being one of them and during introduction it was made clear that everyone was made so they needed to get to know eachother because their in the same family!!! thats how bad it can get between who know who and is recongnized and known between the two.

Do you think it's possible that Boston and Providence will eventually split up?

Neg. They need each other. Diminished strength requires friends of circumstance.

Plus NY would never allow it.

I dont think they will split since thats the way it is like sonny said they need eachother to an extent but i dont think NY has anything to do with it. I think NY has no say truthfully. The commission is somewhat crumbled so until the commission gets back to full effect i dont think NY has much say. Influence yea but control No. I believe Patriarca family, philly and chicago is on their own with no influence from NY just because NY is a mess with no commision, no direct structure to oversee other families as well as theirs. all their families are trying to stay positional powers so to control and oversee other families during this time of getting things back in order as far as commission goes and getting stronger i dont see it happeneing because of that

The comparison to Cleveland is relevant to how the top administration has gone to prison and there is a leadership void. JoeRusso says that there are 20-30 made guys in Providence that nobody knows about. Due to the amount of informants New England has had, do you really believe that the federal government knows "nothing" about alleged made members? They took down the last three bosses, flipped a few high ranking members and sent a lot of their Capos to prison. Do the Feds know everything? No...but if there are 20-30 made guys in Providence that have flown under the radar for this long, then they've made history and I doubt very much that in this day in age that is even remotely possible.

I agree with your statement that outside of NYC, they will be the last to go...but outside NYC, the only viable families left are Chicago, Philly, New England, Detroit and New Jersey. I don't hold a "grudge" against Philly, they are just a truly dysfunctional and disorganized family since the Scarfo years which has been over 30 years ago. In regards to New England, when has a boss from Boston held the big seat for an extended period of time? Boston definitely has more made guys left than Providence and until 20-30 made guys are identified, how can you hold any validity in JoeRusso's statement? Mob guys today don't stay under the radar...people know who they are and law enforcement are watching these guys constantly and have enough inside information to have an idea of what these guys are doing. Do you really think that mob guys are so smart and reclusive that nobody knows who they are? When the regional director of the FBI and the U.S. Attorney say that Providence has been decimated, they have 50 men underneath them conducting surveillance on key players 24/7. They know who they meet with, who that person meets with and so forth. Since the early 1980's when the government first used RICO on James "Jack White" Licavoli in Cleveland and then the infamous Commission case, they have dismantled 15 out of the original 24 mafia families with one powerful law. Even a few of the NY families are limping along (Bonanno and Colombo). Chicago is still operating, but severely reduced.

You say they are "actively" making new members? Where is that information coming from? When was their last making ceremony? How do you really know they are "actively" making new blood. They don't even have a boss, an underboss or a consigliere at the moment. Do you really believe Baby Shacks made a guy with the last name Jenkins?

So your contention is that the government knows nothing? All the success they have had against New England and they are clueless? You are saying that guys on the street are so highly intelligent, that they are invisible for law enforcement surveillance? I'd have to say that the DiNunzio brothers, Baby Shacks, Lato, Limone, DeLuca, Rossetti, St. Laurent among others would even disagree with you. It didn't take too long to send these guys away. If there are 20-30 made guys running around Providence, they have to be meeting with somebody and extorting and threatening at least gamblers that are in default of payments, yet nobody knows who they are? Even Ruggiero who is a "legitimate" businessman was outed as being a made guy. I get that you are a big supporter of the mafia, but if you actually believe that the federal government knows nothing, you are sadly mistaken. They could find Saddam Hussein in a fucking hole or Bin Laden in a compound in the middle of fucking nowhere but they can't find a "street criminal." They have successfully dismantled OC "families" in most cities and you believe that New England will be absolved from that? The government has more time and more money than any organized crime family in the world. It took all of 2 seconds for Peter Limone to be indicted again and if you think the government of the U.S is going to allow a hood to collect $33.7 million dollars without giving him headaches, you're sadly mistaken. They're watching him like a hawk plus he's nearly 80 years old, hardly a threat. Did you support the U.S. government when they sent Seal Team 6 in to whack Bin Laden? Or the Army Rangers and Delta Force to capture Hussein?

Would Lemone not be making new members?

Again you swear you know. Am i supposed to tell you when was the ceremony, who conducted it, who proposed each member, No. do i even have that answer no. My personal belief is 20-30 and thats a little under estimation b/c they are loaded down there, second, they have 4-5 capo's in lato, pretty matt, achilles, st laurent, deluca and scivola and you tellin me there is only one member per captian thats not possible, third they have people like ruggerio who you never heard of, not of the limelight, quiet, and last what info did deluca or rossetti give to be dentrimental. None Limone was in a state case because of deposit of cash flow made him suspicious, rossetti got busted because of his hispinac friends and the dope dealing, so nonthing fatal happened everyone besides rossetti will be out in less than three years of this date, Rossetti be out in 6 years and all they got was the strip club scheme and really only specific inner working of one strip club cadillac lounge. all the other srip clubs was just named. So being capo's and knowing alot they sure gave them horse crap. Nothing fatal to cripple them thats a fact. I told you who was made want me to keep repeating names. all was made recently from providence and boston milisi,scarpa,moriarty,folcarelli,sparo,pari jr,folco cappiccllo etc all providence i mentioned so there no new men being made. I just name 13 people from providence made guys and i dont know providence to much at all never mind the guys who really who is whi in providence forget about it. And you ask me where is this info coming from not the fucking feds or DA thats for sure. It comes from street guys, In the moves the respect, talking people say not rumors but talking thats done out of acknowledgement. Believe or not like ripleys I dont care the truth is in the pudding kiddo these are facts i dont need to reveil my sources but just know thats what it is. To say there is no boss underboss or consgliere your brain is wrapped in mushy tomato sauce. are you serious? Im done arguing and the back and forth you dont know nothing saying there is n o boss, underboss or consgliere just proved it again and actually sustained my theory of you not knowing shit. Because the feds caught osama and hussein thats means they got everything under control right. So why cant they stop the drugs and border traffic? why cant they stop the terrorist from coming here? why cant they stop the curroption in their own country in politics, the navy all armed forces ? Why cant they control and stop russia ? you swear you know but your dumber than the words you speak. Say what you want im done with you you prove time after time you and the feds since your speaking on their behalf dont know nothing at all but mosquito's shit

LMAO...a lecture from a guy who can't spell or even complete sentences. A citizen who hates his country's government...narrow minded neighborhood tough guy. I agree that this is going nowhere...and Lato and St. Laurent aren't going to be out in 3 years. When the old men in diapers from your neighborhood talk, that is gospel, right? Good luck to you sir.

am i supposed to get sophisticated with you because i do have spell check and grammer correction but its not that serious frank. And i bet the old men your talking about that wears diapers is not only sharper but is more respected and appreciated than you ever will be but can also have you disappear faster than the speed of light. he has more hits under his belt than you do killing mosquito's so be an internet wiseguy and advocate for the government all you want im done with you

Again, not in support of law enforcement's war against OC, but I'm a realist and the fact is that the U.S. Government not only is winning the war against OC, but they have crushed and are continuing to assault OC families that are still operating. If you hate the government so much, why do you live in the U.S.? You know and I know as full blooded Italians, and in my case, first generation that there aren't enough full blooded Italians migrating to the U.S. like there was over the last 100 years. Definitely the Americanized ones that are here don't hold the "men of honor" tag to well or adhere to "old school" traditions and rules. There are more rats in today's mafia than ever before. Why? There aren't enough stand up guys who are being made. Like Ruggiero, he paid his way into LCN through his friendship with Louie. When guys like that get pinched, you and I both know they aren't going to spend one day behind bars...they sing like birds and move out west.

Here are some of the indictments for New England LCN figures:

1.http://media2.wpri.com/_local/pdf_files/2012_docs/nelcnindictment.pdf

2.http://media2.wpri.com/_local/pdf_files/LCN-superseding-indictment.pdf

3.http://masslawyersweekly.com/fulltext-opinions/2007/11/19/commonwealth-v-dinunzio/

jcb not evry one in the mob is a killer 50 rats said you didn't have to make your bones when they open the books in the 70tys joe ruggiero is a multi millionare who was around the serial killer salemmi in the 90tys so im guessing he was made way before baby shacks was more than a capo. sounds like you don't like the guy. he just bought millions of land in fall river hugging it out with the mayor he got no shit in his closet the feds wanted him forever so maybe he never would rat. to the guy who asked is limone still making guys xmis is coming up that's usually when it happens wouldn't see why not. this thread is dead. limone is a legend that's that and a boss plus he got 25 mill and still wants to be a gangster the minute his probation is up. Howie winter went on tv couple yrs ago im retired 2 yrs later shaking guy down for 70gs using the north end as his weight.

PMAC nicely said Limone a legend . ruggerio wanted for years never ratted been around for years never was he on any 302's thats that PMAC beautiful

I like Ruggiero actually...but there is a guy never charged with a crime. This is a piece from the Mayor of Fall River:

Meanwhile, Mayor Flanagan, a former state prosecutor, "soundly defends" Ruggiero whom he "describes as 'a self-made billionaire' who coaches Little League and donates to charitable organizations" as reported by Jo C. Goode for The Herald News:

"Mr. Ruggiero is in his late 60s, and to date, he's never received even a speeding ticket. This was a very in-depth (FBI) criminal investigation, and there have been several very in-depth criminal investigations into organized crime, both in Rhode Island and Massachusetts," Flanagan said. "At no point, even in the documents that you have, has he ever been alleged to commit a crime. At no point has he ever been charged with a crime and no point has he ever been convicted of a crime. I've spoken to Mr. Ruggiero about these allegations when I first met with him, and I've even spoken to him about these allegations as late as yesterday (last Thursday). He has definitively told me that he has never been involved in any wrongdoing."


This alone proves my point that although Ruggiero is a made member of the mafia and NEVER even arrested, it is still impossible to fly under the radar at this day in age.

billionaire?

I think he was exaggerating on the "billionaire" status, but he is definitely a multi-millionaire.

Rugiero is compromised. He supplied Salemme with cars to lam it and Deluca has him on tape talking about some serious things. I will leave it at that.

That's a highly fascinating tidbit of info if it's true, u think Ruggiero is cooperating in some capacity?