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Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo #746767
11/01/13 04:26 PM
11/01/13 04:26 PM
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Posts: 466
Stewartstown, PA
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VitoC Offline OP
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VitoC  Offline OP
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Stewartstown, PA
In Part II, when Michael is in Cuba, Fredo comes to see him with the suitcase full of cash. He introduces himself to Michael's bodyguard, who doesn't shake his hand until Michael appears to tell him that Fredo's his brother. Does this make any sense? During this period of crisis, would Michael really have a bodyguard who was such a stranger to the Corleones as to not even know who Fredo was?


Let me tell ya somethin my kraut mick friend!
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: VitoC] #746782
11/01/13 05:44 PM
11/01/13 05:44 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Michael's bodyguard (Bussetta) was brought over from the old country. I believe this is described in the screenplay, or otherwise it was said by Coppola. He was probably brought over recent so that could explain why he didn't know who Fredo was. Besides, Fredo was kept arm's lenght, running Mickey Mouse nightclubs.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: VitoC] #746789
11/01/13 06:53 PM
11/01/13 06:53 PM
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paprincess Offline
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paprincess  Offline
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Agreed, Fredo was passed over because he didn't have a good sense of judgment, if he wasn't the Godfather's son he could have just as easily been killed with Paulie back in the first Godfather. That guy was seriously half retarded or something, he pretends not to know Johnny Ola then makes an announcement to everyone that he learned about that weird nightclub with the girl being tied up from Johnny Ola, then is dumb enough to confess to the senator old man Roth isn't into that thing... and the Senator was an even bigger freak.. some prostitute from one of the brothels ends up all bloody and dead in front of him then a few months later he is laughing and telling jokes in a similar type setting...

Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: paprincess] #746861
11/02/13 12:59 PM
11/02/13 12:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Michael using that bodyguard was part of his plan to deceive Roth. The bodyguard clearly was a hired gun, from outside the family. If Michael had used Neri or Rocco, he would have signaled Roth that he didn't suspect them of involvement in the Tahoe shooting. He wanted Roth to believe that he was still in the dark. True, Michael at that point hadn't completely ruled out Neri and Rocco as being complicit, but he wanted to prevent Roth from making any assumptions.

As for Fredo: The bodyguard's refusal to shake his hand was probably part of his professional demeanor. The bodyguard had one job--to guard Michael and let nothing distract him from giving that job his full attention. He was probably trained to view everyone else with suspicion, so he shook Fredo's hand only after Michael identified him as his brother.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: Turnbull] #747081
11/04/13 04:07 PM
11/04/13 04:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 341
North America
Mr. Blonde Offline
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North America
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Michael using that bodyguard was part of his plan to deceive Roth. The bodyguard clearly was a hired gun, from outside the family. If Michael had used Neri or Rocco, he would have signaled Roth that he didn't suspect them of involvement in the Tahoe shooting. He wanted Roth to believe that he was still in the dark. True, Michael at that point hadn't completely ruled out Neri and Rocco as being complicit, but he wanted to prevent Roth from making any assumptions.


Outstanding point and one I have overlooked up till now. Amazing how I still pick up new things in these movies (with lots of help from the posters here)

Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: VitoC] #747099
11/04/13 06:35 PM
11/04/13 06:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,372
Alabama
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dixiemafia Offline
ROLL TIDE!!!!!
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Alabama
Turnbull hit it directly on the head. Great post.

I too think it was a little of both, he still did not know who was involved until he caught Fredo in the lie when they all went out. That would be the reason he had a bodyguard outside the family, he knew he had no way to be back stabbed once he stepped onto the island.

I will admit Turnbull I had no idea what the bodyguards name was. Shows how dumb I am on the movie.

Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: dixiemafia] #747118
11/04/13 09:10 PM
11/04/13 09:10 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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You're not dumb, Dixie. The bodyguard's name isn't mentioned at any time in the film (in fact, he never utters a word). We know his name only from the credits. Ditto Roth's wife's name (see another thread in this forum).


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: VitoC] #754949
12/23/13 01:07 AM
12/23/13 01:07 AM
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Posts: 2,727
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Larry's Bar
Great post Turnbull. I had always viewed Bussetta as a Luca Brasi who did not speak. By bringing Bussetta over from Sicily, it showed that Michael was both smart and cautious.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: VitoC] #754960
12/23/13 01:55 AM
12/23/13 01:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Texas
It was amusing to see Busetta take off his coat and look up at the sun during Roth's birthday party on the balcony.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: olivant] #755144
12/23/13 05:50 PM
12/23/13 05:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
He was so focused on killing Roth that he decided to smother him with a pillow. Wouldn't a quick and silent throat slashing have been more effective -- or if he knew he was on a suicide mission anyway, why not just shoot him a few times at close range? He must have been trained by the same Corleone ally who found the "twins" in Part III.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: dontomasso] #755163
12/23/13 07:20 PM
12/23/13 07:20 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
Well DT, a throat slashing might have splattered Busetta's hands and clothes with blood. Also, having died from smothering, Roth would have appeared to be sleeping, thus not raising any alarm for quite some time. I really don't think Busetta considered it a suicide mission.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: olivant] #755183
12/23/13 09:34 PM
12/23/13 09:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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AZ
Originally Posted By: olivant
It was amusing to see Busetta take off his coat and look up at the sun during Roth's birthday party on the balcony.

Oli, if you look closely, you'll see that he's looking up because a bird crapped on his hat, which is even more amusing. lol


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: olivant] #755184
12/23/13 09:37 PM
12/23/13 09:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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AZ
Originally Posted By: olivant
I really don't think Busetta considered it a suicide mission.

And that raises another point: Michael obviously left Cuba without Buscetta--but did he know he was dead when he ordered his plane to leave? Or, did he have some agreement that Buscetta was to meet him at the plane by a certain time, and if he wasn't there, the plane would take off without him? I can't see Michael knowingly leaving Buscetta behind--he looked like the kind of guy who'd stop at nothing to avenge himself against Michael if that happened.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: Turnbull] #755194
12/23/13 10:47 PM
12/23/13 10:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: olivant
I really don't think Busetta considered it a suicide mission.

And that raises another point: Michael obviously left Cuba without Buscetta--but did he know he was dead when he ordered his plane to leave? Or, did he have some agreement that Buscetta was to meet him at the plane by a certain time, and if he wasn't there, the plane would take off without him? I can't see Michael knowingly leaving Buscetta behind--he looked like the kind of guy who'd stop at nothing to avenge himself against Michael if that happened.


Is that really true about the bird? I'll have to watch for that next time.

I'm not sure why Michael had a plane ready to fly him out. He knew about his and Roth's intended assassinations, so why did he attend the reception? He couldn't know that Castro was on the doorstep nor could he have known that Roth's murder didn't take place. However, he should have realized that once in the Palace, Batista could have had him locked in. Why not fly out before the reception?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: VitoC] #755328
12/24/13 01:19 PM
12/24/13 01:19 PM
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Posts: 2,727
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Larry's Bar
Michael taking off without knowing what happened seems to indicate Buscetta had one job to do, and that was taking care of Roth. If Michael had flied out before the reception, it would single other members in the different organizations that were there, that something was up. Also he had to confront Frado, as well as protect him as he was close to Roth and with Roth out of the way, Frado loses any protection he has. I think Michael was outing to give Frado a pass and put him on the shelf, but that changed when Frado ran away from Michael during the chaos in Cuba.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: olivant] #755466
12/25/13 01:26 PM
12/25/13 01:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant

I'm not sure why Michael had a plane ready to fly him out. He knew about his and Roth's intended assassinations, so why did he attend the reception? He couldn't know that Castro was on the doorstep nor could he have known that Roth's murder didn't take place. However, he should have realized that once in the Palace, Batista could have had him locked in. Why not fly out before the reception?

Michael knew that he had to have Roth killed before he (Michael) left the Presidential New Year's Eve party. He also knew that SIM ("Batista's Gestapo") would regard him as the prime suspect when Roth's body was discovered--because Roth had engaged SIM to have Michael assassinated following the party. Michael's attendance at the party was his attempt to establish an alibi. Of course, SIM would pay no attention to legal or diplomatic niceities if they'd grabbed Michael. So, he had the plane on standby to get him out quickly.

I think he was counting on just enough delay in the discovery of Roth's body, and general New Year's Eve street mayhem, for him to be seen at the party and to get away to the plane inconspicuously. Once he was back in the US, the alibi would help him if the Cuban government demanded he be extradited for Roth's murder.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: dontomasso] #755529
12/26/13 12:39 AM
12/26/13 12:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98
New York, NY
Questadt Offline
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Questadt  Offline
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New York, NY
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
He was so focused on killing Roth that he decided to smother him with a pillow. Wouldn't a quick and silent throat slashing have been more effective -- or if he knew he was on a suicide mission anyway, why not just shoot him a few times at close range? He must have been trained by the same Corleone ally who found the "twins" in Part III.


IMO, the fact that Roth was already in hospital, incapacitated with a stroke, gave Buscetta a perfect opportunity to murder Roth while making it look like a natural death. Since hit men are generally trained to stay "under the radar" and avoid calling unnecessary attention to themselves, I can't see Buscetta passing up an opportunity to smother Roth with a pillow, rather than slashing Roth's throat - unless for some reason Michael had wanted to send a particularly bloody message.

For that matter, there were even quicker and more effective methods available to Buscetta, had he been prepared to use them - such as injecting Roth with a poison or with a substance that would stop his heart, or introducing such a substance into Roth's IV drip. Since autopsies were not automatically conducted in 1958/59 in the absence of obvious evidence of foul play or other unnatural circumstances, there is every likelihood that those in Roth's circle would simply have assumed that the stroke had finished him off.

Last edited by Questadt; 12/26/13 12:40 AM.

"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns."
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: Turnbull] #755532
12/26/13 12:52 AM
12/26/13 12:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 98
New York, NY
Questadt Offline
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Questadt  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: olivant
I really don't think Busetta considered it a suicide mission.

And that raises another point: Michael obviously left Cuba without Buscetta--but did he know he was dead when he ordered his plane to leave? Or, did he have some agreement that Buscetta was to meet him at the plane by a certain time, and if he wasn't there, the plane would take off without him? I can't see Michael knowingly leaving Buscetta behind--he looked like the kind of guy who'd stop at nothing to avenge himself against Michael if that happened.


For that matter, why use Buscetta at all for the hit on Roth? Since Buscetta had been publicly seen shadowing Michael as his bodyguard throughout Michael's entire visit to Cuba, any capture or killing of Buscetta in the attempt would automatically and directly implicate Michael. And Michael just seems far too calculating and careful to ever leave such a contingency unmet.

Last edited by Questadt; 12/26/13 10:36 AM.

"A lawyer with his briefcase can steal more than a hundred men with guns."
Re: Michael's Bodyguard and Fredo [Re: Questadt] #755575
12/26/13 12:16 PM
12/26/13 12:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted By: Questadt


For that matter, why use Buscetta at all for the hit on Roth?


Good point. But what is even more curious is how did Michael intend to assassinate Roth. As he told Fredo, Roth will never see the new year. Well, when Michael told him that, Roth was not hospitalized and there were no plans to hospitalize him. So, where and how was Roth's murder to take place?

I disagree with TB about the timeliness of Michael's escaping Cuba by plane. There was no reason for Michael to attend the reception because once there, he could not be assured of being able to leave. You might also notice that Michael's departure from the Palace seems to be prompted not by a prearranged plan, but by Michael's assessment of the military situation from what Batista was saying. In addition, I don't see why Michael would have to have an alibi of any sort regarding his whereabouts during Roth's murder.

Last edited by olivant; 12/26/13 12:16 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."

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