Two things decided Paul's fate. 1. He was greedy. 2. He hated John Gotti.

Agreed to a point...WE, the public, will NEVER know why things happened the way they did. I don't believe that any of us on this forum are in a position to "critique" why Castellano made the decisions he made. One thing I know that is a certainty: You live by the gun, you die by the gun. He was 76 when he got whacked, so I'd say that he had a "pretty damn good" career for a criminal. 50 plus years in the rackets, not many could say that. He accumulated wealth and did what a lot of bosses do not do...he invested his blood money into legitimate corporations and businesses and set his children, grandchildren and the next 3 generations up so they never had to live by the streets.

Of course he was greedy, like every Mafiosi. Guys don't make it to the top without ambition and greed. As far as hating John Gotti...Castellano was one of many. His biggest mistake? Not whacking him once his brother and Quack Quack got indicted. Due to his upcoming "Commission Case," he didn't want anymore headlines or headaches since he was already facing 100 years in the can. Gotti was about as respected by other bosses and families as Bobby Kennedy was when he was made AG by his brother. Most "street guys" don't make good bosses...It's the guys who see the biggest picture and focus on White Collar rackets as well as staying true to the rules. I will say that I believe Castellano was an ego-maniac, with his Staten Island Home and lavish lifestyle.

I have to agree with turnbull. Had he not been so greedy and spent more face time with the troops maybe they wouldn't have taken him out.

Gotti IMO was taking out whoever he needed to in order to become boss. Gotti knew it was kill or be killed and he struck first. Keep in mind that Castellano was Sicilian and HATED the fact that Gotti was Neapolitan. As a first generation Italian, my famil is Calabrese and it amazes me how men in certain regions of Italy look at other men from a different region. Neapolitans are known for being "serpents" and the Sicilians never trusted the Neapolitans. Guys from Castellano and Gambino's generation took that stuff very seriously.

And so does my father you can't just a neapolitan.

Gotti was lucky IMO. I think Big paul would have killed him but the mafia commission case came out and paul didnt wnat to do anything to create more heat on himself. Also the main reason that the Castellano hit was a success was because Gravano and Decicco decided to help. Without those two i ahve a feeling gotti would have been dead long ago or at least broken down into a soldier/on the shelf

If gotti was such a moron.....why didn't anybody perform a coupe after the big paul hit? I know about the gaspipe attempt on his life that killed decicco....but was having the bull behind him really what kept everybody in line? or was he just a lightning rod?

I guess that could be phrased better.

He was well liked and respected. Feared, even. I think most people couldn't predict how big his ego was about to become and so they were loyal to him.

Jimmy Brown and Danny Marino tried to attempt a coup. They were still plotting all the way up until Gotti was jailed.

so i'm saying, might he scared of Castellano, but Castellano couldn't see the ambition of Gotti, and he kept Neil as the underboss, i mean yeah, Neil was O.K. on Castellano's side, but bugs like Gotti, Gravano, Ruggiero all got powerful under Neil. If I was the Big Paul, i would set a meeting with Neil and Gotti and whack'em right there. You shouldn't underestimate guys like Gotti.

was Bob Kennedy a poor attorney general? I had always understood that he played a pretty big role is dismantling some of the mafia hierarchy in NYC and elsewhere.

I didn't say he was a poor AG...JFK got the presidential nomination because of one man...Sam Giancana. Frank Sinatra went to Giancana and asked for the endorsement of Kennedy, which Giancana was reluctant, but it was presented by Joe Kennedy that if the Teamsters endorsed JFK, "mob business" would be left alone. Once JFK got voted in and Bobby was appointed AG, his first order of business was to go after Giancana and many others.

And NO, Bobby was not viewed by his peers in a good way...they looked at him as a spoiled little rich kid who was given the job because of his brother. The Kennedy's, in most circles, were despised.

We really need to clarify the myth of JFK and Giancana:

The myth starts with Joseph P. Kennedy, JFK’s father, who supposedly had ties with organized crime going back to Prohibition, when he was a major (illegal) importer and distributor of Scotch whiskey. He contacted Sam Giancana, or worked through Frank Sinatra, a friend of both Giancana’s and JFK’s, to solicit Mob money and union support to help his son win the West Virginia presidential primary, and to carry Illinois in the general election. In return, Kennedy promised that his son’s administration would keep hands off organized crime. Giancana agreed to help—and the Kennedy Administration, led by Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, declared war on the Mob. Another wrinkle: Giancana and JFK shared a mistress: Judith Campbell Exner, whom Sinatra had introduced to JKF before he became president. Later, Exner, terminally ill with cancer, alleged that JFK had impregnated her, and Giancana arranged for her to have an abortion. Therefore, Giancana ordered the assassination as revenge on the president.
This myth is full of holes:

Joe Kennedy was not a rumrunner during Prohibition, nor was he Mob-connected. His father, Patrick J. Kennedy, operated saloons before Prohibition. At the beginning of the Franklin D. Roosevelt administration in 1933, Joe Kennedy and Jimmy Roosevelt, FDR’s son, formed Somerset Importers and acted as exclusive agents for several brands of Scotch whiskey and gin. They started business after Prohibition was repealed.

Sam Giancana had no motivation to help John F. Kennedy. In 1959, Giancana was humiliated by Robert Kennedy when he was subpoenaed to appear before a Senate subcommittee investigating labor racketeering. JFK was a ranking Democratic member and Robert Kennedy was chief counsel. After taking the Fifth Amendment in response to several of RFK’s questions, Giancana smiled and laughed. “I thought only little girls giggle, Mr. Giancana,” RFK taunted--not exactly the kind of remark aimed at getting Giancana's support for his brother's presidential campaign. That same hearing marked the beginning of a long-running feud between the Kennedy brothers and Jimmy Hoffa, whom JFK excoriated for “hiding behind the Fifth Amendment.” The Teamsters, one of the Chicago Outfit’s major allies and sources of income, endorsed Richard Nixon in the 1960 election. And, JFK didn’t need either Giancana’s or the Teamsters’ help in carrying Illinois because he’d been promised the state’s electoral votes by one of his strongest allies: Richard Daley, Chicago’s all-powerful mayor, who delivered Chicago’s vote late in the evening, allowing JFK to squeak by Nixon with a margin of fewer than 9,000 votes.

As for Exner: Despite her late-life claims, there is no hard evidence that JFK had any relationship with Giancana through her, or that he even knew that he was sharing her with Giancana—until J. Edgar Hoover warned him that the FBI was aware that he had spoken to her by phone 70 times in two weeks, and that one of the calls had been made from Giancana’s home. Kennedy immediately dropped her.

Among my friends, this has always been a debated topic. Half are convinced Joe had nothing to do with bootlegging. The other half believes he was definitely involved with bootlegging, plus he was known to many gangsters.

Agreed to disagree

If you have Richard Daley on your side do you really need someone like Sam Giancana? Only one of them had REAL power. And most people who believe this myth ignore the "giggle" line.

Besides Kennedy would've won even without Daley and his votes!

As for Castellano I think he accomplished what he wanted during his run. The Gambinos became a business enterprise and, more importantly, his family (blood family) became businessmen. Gotti ruined the Gambinos afterwards but not the Castellanos.

Correct! JFK won by over 80 electoral votes, while Illinois was only worth 27 at the time.

Very interesting HAIRY !Gambino's rise to power is also ... GAMBINO'S treachery is unbridaled . did he make an agreement with Rava/ Johnny Robert's , then secretly wack em both ? another thing report's say Eboli told family member's that the Bonnano murder plot was false, was that why CARLO had him killed ?big argument over here , WAS THE LUCCHESE FAMILY the # 2 power from 58- 67 ?

Yeah, Demeo seemed he wasn't worried if his crew weren't Italians.

There seems to be two different mindsets with these people.

Some probably wouldn't give a shit if the books were opened up to accept Irish and Jews; like Roy De Meo and Lucky Luciano.

And then there are those with a tribal attitude, like Vito Genovese, who whined about Luciano collaborating with all those Jews back in the olden days.

Luciano and DeMeo worked with Jews. Where did you read that they wanted them as made members? Which mafia leaders have ever called for making people with no Italian heritage into the Mafia? Even guys like Veasey and Porter had Italian mothers.

Letting the genovese family whack frank piccolo the captain in Connecticut for the gambino's was a major fuck up

Agree with Dom... thinking about killing someone like Gotti as a perceived threat makes sense; killing DeMeo as a threat to you going to jail make sense; killing a loyal captain who was neither like Gotti nor as pronounced as DeMeo didn't make sense. I can't imagine that the family understood that move.

Yeah jimmy , apparently he was encroaching on genovese family turf so castellano agreed to the genovese demands to have him whacked , all the guys who were sitting on the fence in the gotti castellano dispute suddenly swung over to gottis side ,

Gotti was in teh right place at the time to make a move on Paul. He was on trial, and his loyal guys like Decicco and Gravano didnt like they way he was acting with The Piccolo murder and the maid affair. I dotn think Decicco or Gravano particularly liked Gottin. in fact they made a pact that they would ahve killed Gotti in a year if he didnt cut out the flamboyant bullshit. I guess Decicco's death saved Gotti's life

That was sammy's story after he flipped. He seemed happy making all that money under gotti

Yeah, it's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback after you've already cut your deal with the government.

That's the point I was trying to make with someone the other day. They were hating on D'Arco for his bravado in the Capeci book. But that's all of these guys who cut deals. They all make themselves out to be the balls and the brains of the operation when they sit down to write their books. The truth just wouldn't go over very well .

Buying that penile implant.

If you think about it, none of this happens if Ruggiero doesnt get caught dealing heroin.

Agreed the Bergin crew was pretty dumb. First you had angelo who couldnt shut up and then because of john gotti's gambling he pissed away teh crew's profits and they ahd ro resort to drug dealing