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Stretching Artistic License #739672
09/13/13 08:35 AM
09/13/13 08:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline OP
MaryCas  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
We all agree that the story line(s) of the Trilogy makes for exciting reading and cinema. We wouldn't be here is we thought otherwise. But after all these years and analysis, what-ifs, and how-comes, we still come up with more. So here is my latest:

In GF, for me, the most exciting, tension-filled scene is Louis Restaurant with the planning around the dinner table, the car ride and u-turn on the bridge, then the culmination in the restaurant. But I was thinking about all the things that had to fall into place for Michael to "kill them both".
1. Sonny has a man in McCloskey's precinct who happens to see the book that McCloskey signs out.
2. The phone works
3. Tessio knows the restaurant. His turf is Brooklyn, but he dines in the Bronx.
4. Tessio formulates a plan immediately - they've got an old toilet with the chain....how did he know there was space behind it to accomodate a gun.
5. They get Michael to Jack Dempsey's on time.
6. Lou makes a perfect U-Turn on the bridge.
7. The restaurant is fairly empty, no cops out for a drink.
8. When Michael goes to the bathroom it is unoccupied.
9. Planting the gun - The gun-planter was able to get to the restaurant unnoticed, did he eat dinner first, have a drink at the bar, or just walk into the bathroom. How good was the duct tape in late 40's. No moisture on the tank?
10. Where did Michael hide the gun and how did he pull it out unnoticed.

Any little thing to change any of these actions could have foiled the whole plan. I'm sure there are more.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Stretching Artistic License [Re: MaryCas] #739695
09/13/13 11:33 AM
09/13/13 11:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Originally Posted By: MaryCas
We all agree that the story line(s) of the Trilogy makes for exciting reading and cinema. We wouldn't be here is we thought otherwise. But after all these years and analysis, what-ifs, and how-comes, we still come up with more. So here is my latest:

In GF, for me, the most exciting, tension-filled scene is Louis Restaurant with the planning around the dinner table, the car ride and u-turn on the bridge, then the culmination in the restaurant. But I was thinking about all the things that had to fall into place for Michael to "kill them both".
1. Sonny has a man in McCloskey's precinct who happens to see the book that McCloskey signs out.
2. The phone works
3. Tessio knows the restaurant. His turf is Brooklyn, but he dines in the Bronx.
4. Tessio formulates a plan immediately - they've got an old toilet with the chain....how did he know there was space behind it to accomodate a gun.
5. They get Michael to Jack Dempsey's on time.
6. Lou makes a perfect U-Turn on the bridge.
7. The restaurant is fairly empty, no cops out for a drink.
8. When Michael goes to the bathroom it is unoccupied.
9. Planting the gun - The gun-planter was able to get to the restaurant unnoticed, did he eat dinner first, have a drink at the bar, or just walk into the bathroom. How good was the duct tape in late 40's. No moisture on the tank?
10. Where did Michael hide the gun and how did he pull it out unnoticed.

Any little thing to change any of these actions could have foiled the whole plan. I'm sure there are more.


1. It is not surprising that Sonny has a man in McCluskey's precinct any more than it is surprising that the family has press people on the payroll.
Where the directorial license comes in, however is the timing of this disclosure. This information would have logically come up in the early planning stages. When Tessio was discussing how Louis was a perfect place for them, that would have been the time for Sonny to say, "and I have a guy in McCluskey's precinct who will find out where they are going."
2.It would be more purprising if the phone didn't work.
3. Louis has the "best veal in the city" it is logical that Tessio would have gone from Brooklyn to the Bronx for veal as good as that.
4. Also not a surprise that Tessio used the can when he dined there. Remember Tessio was "always smarter." He probably noticed the old fashioned toilet. Also it was a small gun and because it was a wooden box there had to be a space between it and the tile wall.
5. Getting to Jack Dempsey's wasn't a problem. It was after rush hour, and no question Michael's drivers knew when they had to leave the mall to get there on time. Even if they were five or ten minutes late. Sol would have waited.
6. Lou was a pro. When he oulled off the U-Turn Sol did something that was very rare...he paid someone a compliment. "Nice work, Lou,"
7. It was probably a weeknight. Louis' was a quiet family place, and families probably had their dinner earlier. It was not the kind of place where cops would hang out. After all Louis didn't serve donuts and coffee.
8. Well, there weren't many people in the restaurant, and if he encountered someone there, he could have gone into the stall and waited for them to clear out.
9. It was still daylight when Sonny learned where the meeting would be, so there was plenty of time for one of Clemenza's people to go there (maybe two or three went) order food, and then have one of them go to the bathroom to plant the gun. Maybe even two went so no pain in the ass innocent bystanders could use the bathroom while they planted it. As for taping it, Clemenza was a tape genius. If he had a special tape that made it impossible to find fingerprints, it is not a stretch he had something as good as duct tape (which I dont think had been invented as of that era). No moisture cause the tank was wooden.
10. It was a small gun... probably in his pants.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Stretching Artistic License [Re: dontomasso] #739744
09/13/13 02:20 PM
09/13/13 02:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
MC, I go along with what dt posted. For me, the scene that really involves directorial license is the Great Massacre of 1955. For starters, how did Michael get the intelligence to know where all those important people would be, in order to whack them almost simultaneously--since a delay of even an hour between individual killings would have tipped off the survivors?

The rest of it is "artistry" rather than "reality": Rocco and a confederate using Madsden submachine guns to whack Tattaglia and his whore in bed. Fat Clemenza climbing all those stairs carring a shotgun in a box, and just happeningn to intercept the elevator carrying Stracci (and probably killing the other guy and the elevator operator in the process--shotguns have that tendency when used at close range). Neri taking out Barzini and all the others armed only with a six-shot .38 revolver (shooting Barzini at a distance, and killing him with one shot, would be a feat worthy of Annie Oakley with that weapon).


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Stretching Artistic License [Re: MaryCas] #739787
09/13/13 09:22 PM
09/13/13 09:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline OP
MaryCas  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
Yes gentlemen, I go along with what dt posted also, which also proves that artistic license could be stretched in the opposite direction. TB, I applaud your dissection of the five family killing. Both scenes prove that behind these scene are actions that defy logic - this is an art form, not a scientific sequence of events like smashing an atom. There are events that "happen", not because someone figured them out ahead of time; they just make for good stories. I was hoping that the GF brain trust might come up a few more, not dispute the illogical logic that I presented. What if....? Michael didn't enlist.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Stretching Artistic License [Re: MaryCas] #739795
09/13/13 10:03 PM
09/13/13 10:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
O
olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
Yes, any number of variables could have intervened to ruin the restaurant murder plan. I also agree with TB that the timeliness of the Massacre was "exceptional". I also agree that Clemenza at 300lbs. scaling all those stairs to arrive just when the elevator doors open was quite a feat.

But, what if:

1. Vito had not stopped at the fruit stand.
2. The nurse refuses to help Michael and calls the police.
3. Enzo doesn't stop at the hospital, or he takes Michael's advice and leaves the hospital.
4. Kay turns state's evidence.
5. Moe Green cancels his massage.
6. Someone steals the car that was left for Rocco and Clemenza

The list goes on.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Stretching Artistic License [Re: olivant] #739822
09/14/13 09:11 AM
09/14/13 09:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
Consigliere to the Stars

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
1. Michael sticks to his guns and doesn't join the family business.
2. Johnny Fontaine doesnt get that picture.
3. Connie and Carlo have a happy marriage.
4. Kay turns Michael down.
5. Michael gets into the car instead of Appollonia.
6. oll and Mike really go to Jersey to eat.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."


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