When Don Zaluchi begins his speech to the Dons about regulating the drug business, we see a shot of Tattaglia calling over his consigliere and whispering something to him.

While it's clear that FFC wanted us to see this, so it must have some significance, I have no idea what he would be saying.

Any guesses?

"Is this the deal Barzini told me I should make? Let's wrap this thing up in the next ten minutes. Call that whore and make sure she's on time."

Very good question and something I've wondered about too ever since seeing that scene for the first time. It probably has to do with Zaluchi being described as a loyal ally of Vito, and therefore an enemy of Tattaglia.

I think it was to show he was thinking it over, and getting help. Also, Vito speaks and thinks for himself, while Tattaglia needs someone to help him. Scene shows Vito as strong and independent, Tattaglia as weak.

The other thing is while Vito is apparently going to go along with a compromise, Tatt wants to make sure that this means there will be no further acts of revenge against him. Yes he is weak, and he knows that once the Corleones got stronger they could muscle into his territories in a way that might be trouling but which would not cause a war. Perhaps he was asking his aide how to handle this and the aide stupidly suggested, "Go through Don Barzini."

I think that was the exact moment when it became clear that Vito would have to give in on drugs. Tatt's consligliere may have been alerting him to that fact. Or, Tatt may have been asking him if he (Tatt) should ask for guarantees that Vito would not attempt vengeance after the deal was made.

I always thought it was to show that Tattaglia is scummy and isn't really paying attention. He in part caused the war, and now when things are being discussed he's whispering to his henchman instead of caring what Zaluchi is saying. It kind of came off as a "Yeah, yeah, whatever. Let's get this over with" kind of vibe to me personally.

yeah im with wayne, i dont wanna overthink it too much , this movie is filled w subtleties though

Maybe he was lining up hookers.

I don't have the book in front of me, but I remember that in the passage that Zaluchi is speaking, Puzo writes that not only was Zaluchi a Corleone ally, he was also very old school and against the drug trade. Having Zaluchi starting off on accepting a compromise was taking the laying the groundwork for compromising on drug trade, yet at the same time Puzo writes that his speech was the rambling of an old man saying the obvious, because everyone present knew that the drug trade would have to be approved by the commission and regulated (no matter how meaningless that "regulation" meant, it was a sop to the old school Dons)


I don't think that Vito realized he'd have to give on drugs at the meeting. The minute he called the meeting everyone would have known he'd have to compromise on the drugs. Though the Tatt's were seriously weakened and at the end of their rope, Vito was still negotiating from a point of weakness. Luca and Sonny, the muscle of the family, were dead and he was trying to save Micheal's life. Vito had to give on something to avoid fatally weakening his family through continuing the war and everyone at the meeting knew it.

That's why Vito realized it was "Barzini all along" at the meeting, Barzini took charge as the "impartial" negotiator and settled terms for Tattaglia, something that Tattaglia should have been doing if he was at all competent. Showing Tattaglia conferring with his adviser helped illustrate that, his presence at the conference was a formality since he wasn't the one "pulling the strings".

"... and Don Corleone will give it [drug trade] protection in the east ..."

Now, while Vito's influence in the New York city area and even in New York state might have been all pervasive, it would not necessarily extend to New England or the mid-Atlantic states.

True. But the drugs would be coming in through the Port of New York, and Sol and people would be operating out of New York. The novel states that Sol's concern was that "some of my couriers [emphasis added] will be caught over the years," and that he needed Vito to assure that they'd get light sentences. I infer that Sol was concerned only with the wholesale end of the business. By the time of the Commission meeting, the other Dons' appetite for the drugs trade seemed to be whetted because they'd be in the distribution business.

That begs a question: When Barz said, "The traffic in drugs will be allowed, and Don Corleone will give it protection in the East," did he mean Vito would protect the importation/wholesale end, as Sol had suggested, or the street distribution end--a much different, much bigger proposition?

True TB. The novel is confusing. At the meeting with Sollozzo, Vito states that he won't have to concern himself with operations. However, Tom refers to middlemen having clean records, but Vito states that they will not help a real snowbird. I'm not sure that they are not referring to distribution.

Of course, the reason for Sonny's gaff is given as his desire to run an operation of his own. I don't see legal and political protection as an operation and certainly not for Sonny; an operation sounds like distribution to me.

You make a strong case, Oli.

Did Sollozo know about Barzini? or did he think he was just dealing with Tataglia?

I'm pretty sure he knew. Maybe not the extent (since it was almost certain that if the assassination attempt had succeeded, Sollozzo and/or Tattaglia would have been scapegoats), but I'm sure that he knew that Barzini was backing it in some fashion.

Solozzo would have never tried to assassinate Corleone without the assent of all the heads of all the other families. That includes Barzini, and everyone else Michael eventually lilled (in the movie at least).

Sol was no dummy, and even if he began by dealing with tattaglia, he had to realize early on that Barzini was really in charge.

I would add the element of "control" was more than a sop to the old guard. By restricting the drug trade to the "dark areas" and keeping it away from schools and children, there was a much better chance that the political and judicial protection Vito could provide would in fact be effective.

I'm not so sure DT. Afterall, Vito's political and legal influence was very much in place and very much needed by the families in a whole lot of areas. Why would they consent to lose that influence (by Vito's murder) simply because Barzini and Tattaglia wanted to enter the drug trade?

Both the movie and the book basically said that the other families would side against the Corleones only to avoid a war, so they weren't involved otherwise. Whether or not Sollozzo knew about Barzini is up in the air.

I always inferred that Barzini knew from the start Don Corleone would refuse Sollozzo; by this point Barzini had dealt with Don Corleone for a while so he had to know that he was an old "Mustache Pete" and would be against drugs. He also would have had to know that Sollozzo wouldn't take a refusal lightly as it would interfere with him being able to make his own living, and being a "man of respect" he couldn't allow that. Of course at the time nobody knew that Sonny would have had his outburst.

What I think happened is that Sollozzo approached Tattaglia to help with distribution (in the nightclubs and with the prostitutes, most likely), and Tattaglia introduced Sollozzo to Barzini; I'm guessing that Barzini was financing the operation or profiting from it in some other behind-the-scenes way, if for no other reason than to profit where the Corleone's wouldnt; remember Tom's advice that if the Corleones didn't get into it, the other families would and use that to grow their power.

Now, I'd guess that Barzini had some kind of backup plan for when Sollozzo was refused, maybe trying to use whatever connections he had to help instead (which wouldn't be nearly as good as Don Corleone's, of course). However, Sollozzo likely mentioned to Tattaglia about Sonny's outburst, and this probably prompted Barzini to push the assassination attempt, since not only could he profit from drugs but he could usurp the power of his old enemy Corleone.

My view, which I have stated before, is that Barzini was playing everybody as fools. If the assassination attempt succeeded, the Corleones would have lost half their power as Sonny struggled to hold what was left; like he says himself he couldn't just go after Sollozzo immediately without losing face, but would likely do it later on. In any event I'm sure Barzini would have feigned condolences to Sonny and offer his aid, likely throwing Sollozzo and even Tattaglia to the wolves; this would have let Barzini take over the Tattaglia's operations, as well as Sollozzo's, and coupled with the Corleone's lost power from Vito's death as well as the aftermath of a war against Tattaglia and Sollozzo, he's now the #1 guy and can mop up the Corleones. Even if the assassination failed (which it did of course), my guess is that Barzini's intention would be to do the same thing - sell out Tattaglia and Sollozzo, since nobody knows that he had any involvement since he's been a silent partner the whole time.

The wrench in all the plans was Michael not being the patsy. Even after Michael killed Sollozzo, it was Barzini's goal to weaken the Corleones and then with the deal it would have been the same as before - he would have used the drug trade to help increase his own power and later on go after the Corleones again, since IIRC Vito being sick reduced their strength in some regard anyways.

Now granted the above is speculation and opinion, but from reading the novel many times and watching the films likely more, that's how I think things were playing out behind the scenes.

I also agree that Barzini was in it from the beginning but I come at it from a different direction than Wayne's:

Sol needed three things: to operate under the umbrella of an established NY family, working capital, and police and political protection. But he also had something to give: the money his partner made with him would make the partner stronger--perhaps strongest because of the profitability of drugs.

Any family could have given him the umbrella and maybe the working capital. But only Corleone could provide the police/political protection. And Corleone didn't need his profits because he was already Number One with businesses that were far less risky than drugs.

So, I believe, Sol went first to Barzini, who he recognized as younger and more ambitious than the other Dons, impatient to be Number One, and more needful of drugs profits. Barzini would have said, "Your logic is sound. But you still need Corleone's police/political protection. If you tell him I'm your partner, he'll say no. Go to Tattaglia--he's a pimp. Corleone isn't afraid of him. Tell Tatt and Vito anything you want. But I'll be your silent partner. And I'll have your back."

Barzini couldn't lose. If Vito said yes, Vito's capital and police/political protection would help make Barzini (through his partnership with Sol) stronger. If Vito said no, Sol would try to kill him. If he succeeded, Barzini would be Number One by default. If he failed, Vito and Sonny would come after Tatt.

One question...by the time Vito made the deal to provide political cover for the drug rackets, Barzini must have already figured out a way to allow Solozzo to operate withot the Corleones because he was complicit with what would have been Vito's assassination. Moreover, by the time of the meeting the Corleones were not a very strong family. Sonny had hurt their business, effectively lost the war, and Vito was not very well. Wouldn't the judges and others have taken notice of this and started loooking for other benefactors such as Barzini himself? So why make any deal with Vito?

That's a good point DT. I don't think that anyone outside of organized crime has a good grasp of who has what influence on politics and the judiciary. It's probably unrealistic to think that the other New York families were so dependent on Vito for such influence; I think Puzo's representation of that influence was an exaggeration.

I know I am just poking holes into the storyline, but the corleone's influence seems to be fairly random. There was enough power for Tom to arrange for a "Jew Congressman" not in the local district to get Enzo the Baker's immigration papers, and enought for an informer to tell Santino the NYPD has a signout sheet which McCluskey used.

The fact that the police were able to clear out the hospital without anyone in the family learning of the plan in advance shows a lack of insider information, or perhaps a lack of thinking by Santino. Then again. Tom sure got that Writ ordering McCluskey out of the hospital and his people in, with a potential Show Cause Order in about ten minutes, and at night.

DT, you cite some flaws which we have chalk up to expediency and authorial license.

I too would have thought that the first thing that one of the Corleone men would have done after leaving the hospital was to call his capo about it. Also, why wouldn't Phillips have contacted Sonny? Of course, even corruption in high places could not move as fast as is represented in the movie to secure any type of order. But again, it's the movies.