^

This will only add fire to the flames,Let the outfit debates end.

What factors in my opinion of the Outfit in 2013...


1. According to the FBI, approximately 25-30 made members and a little over 100 associates.

2. Scope of activity does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County, for the most part.

3. Down to two or three crews.

4. Still involved in street rackets like sports betting, video poker and stolen goods. Legit/quasi-legit interests include things like DiFronzo's companies, trucking companies, strip clubs, trade shows, etc.

5. Little to no involvement in narcotics.

6. Only residual influence in the unions. There hasn't been a labor racketeering indictment involving the Outfit in years. The 2002 Stier report resulted in no prosecutions.

7. Significant connections to politicians, judges, etc. seem based more on hearsay, innuendo, and speculation than anything else. Whatever influence is left seems to be grossly exaggerated by some.

8. Some examples of financial scams though unclear if they are directly connected to the Outfit or individuals acting on their own.

9. Murders of Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo shows the Outfit is still willing and capable of using violence. Low number of informants shows it still maintains cohesion and discipline.

10. General attrition has taken a huge toll and will see the end of the Outfit, more so than indictments, and in spite of cohesion and discipline.

What factors in my opinion of the Outfit in 2013...

7. Significant connections to politicians, judges, etc. seem based more on hearsay, innuendo, and speculation than anything else. Whatever influence is left seems to be grossly exaggerated by some.

Don't forget the legalization of casinos in Illinois pretty much wiped out the mob card games. Those were big money back in the day.

What factors in my opinion of the Outfit in 2013...


1. According to the FBI, approximately 25-30 made members and a little over 100 associates.

2. Scope of activity does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County, for the most part.

3. Down to two or three crews.

4. Still involved in street rackets like sports betting, video poker and stolen goods. Legit/quasi-legit interests include things like DiFronzo's companies, trucking companies, strip clubs, trade shows, etc.

5. Little to no involvement in narcotics.

6. Only residual influence in the unions. There hasn't been a labor racketeering indictment involving the Outfit in years. The 2002 Stier report resulted in no prosecutions.

7. Significant connections to politicians, judges, etc. seem based more on hearsay, innuendo, and speculation than anything else. Whatever influence is left seems to be grossly exaggerated by some.

8. Some examples of financial scams though unclear if they are directly connected to the Outfit or individuals acting on their own.

9. Murders of Jarrett, Chiaramonti, and Zizzo shows the Outfit is still willing and capable of using violence. Low number of informants shows it still maintains cohesion and discipline.

10. General attrition has taken a huge toll and will see the end of the Outfit, more so than indictments, and in spite of cohesion and discipline.

Great post as usual Ivy! I think this has been brought up before and this isn't really related to this post but do you keep tons of word documents with listings of different families members and their activities and indictments ect? Your knowledge and ability to post REAL information is amazing! Thank you for making this forum informative and interesting buddy!

Haha Very funny thread poking fun @ The Don & baiting ivy league at the same time LOL

#7

How is Jim Wagner former head of Chicago FBI. How is him saying the Chicago Mob replaced roti and Marcy with Sam banks in the 36th ward, speculation and conjecture???

Jim Wagner isnt credible???


#6
John matassa jr is the head of the amegalmated transit union
Not a member he's the head., how is that residual??

I've kept track of every mob indictment since 2000. I also pay attention to the latest charts. (the credible, well researched ones)



Are you sure that's what he was doing or is it just what you hope he was doing?



If there's one thing I give even more credence to then what the feds say, it's what they do. And that applies to both things you mentioned above. When it comes to the LCN, nothing would please the feds more than cases related to political corruption or labor racketeering. The lack of either in years says a lot.

And, yes, at least as of 2004, Matassa was secretary-treasurer of the small and financially struggling Amalgamated Transit Workers Union Local 711. But if you look at the Outfit cases since then, there's hardly been anything in terms of labor racketeering. Once Matassa, DiForti, the Carusos, Lombardo Jr., Caravetta, etc. were all booted from the Laborers Union in the late 1990's and early 2000's, there doesn't seem to have been much left. Read the Stier Teamsters report in it's entirety and you'll see basically some residual influence. None of which, as I said, resulted in any indictments.

Have a gander at the shout box, Copernicus.

So when u quote an article that quotes the FBI saying they have 30menbers that is credible, but when I post the exact same thing of them saying Chicago mob has control of the 36th ward ,that is not credible??
Are you dumb. Do you understand everything isn't black and white. They're are politics to consider when the Feds go after certain politicians. And I'm sure this has some factor

My question then is are you saying Jim Wagner is a liar or are you saying that we should ignore Jim wagner and listen to you

Ps. Just because something has been indicted doesn't mean it isn't going on
The trucchio father and son ran a drug operation from the early 80s to the early 2010s
Does that mean in 2006 they were not dealing drugs because they hadn't been indicted??

Jonnynonos +1000..when The Outfit had the 1st Ward their power and influence at the city and county level was almighty. They had the ability to get Mayor Byrne to fire a police chief. They appointed judges at the County level. They decided which judges got which cases. The influenced city and county contracts and jobs it was unreal.

Most people dunno either that the Daleys and the Briattas of the 26th Street crew are intermarried too. I've never read Cooley's book but will soon. He was a degenerate gambler I'm sure the $$ he must have owed played a part in his decision to run to the FBI.

It's a better than average mob book, though, as it was co-written with Hillel Levin, the former editor of Chicago Magazine, so it isn't just some schlep recording every whopper that a turncoat tells him and writing it down. It was all treated with good journalistic practices etc. And I think the vast majority of it was verified off the wires Cooley was wearing.

I actually agree on the overall quality of the book. Cooley has repeated something very interesting more than once in interviews: That, as far as he could tell and to the best of his understanding, Pat Marcy was the most powerful figure in the Outfit (more so than any other single individual, boss or not) in all his years of being affiliated with the Outfit. That is a pretty powerful statement from someone so well-networked at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofs3-rxmCpM

I saw it. Not sure what you were talking about, i.e. retaliation or whatever.



You can listen to whoever you want. When it comes to you, louie, time has shown you'll listen to whoever tells you what you want to hear.

Anyway, when you read that article, you'll notice the relative lack of prosecutions following Operations Greylord and Gambat in the 1980's and Roti's conviction in 1990. I can respect Wagner's theory, such that it is, but it didn't result in much. It's sort of like the law enforcement officials in New York who predicted back in the 1980's and 1990's that the mob would be gone by now.



Well, they eventually were indicted on those drug charges. And they were indicted in two other cases earlier in the decade. So get back to me when there's actually a political or labor-related bust involving the Chicago mob.

Michael Genovese wasnt indicted does that mean he wasn't the boss
Vincent loscalzo inducted John Mamone into the trafficante family in 1995 and received tribute from his gambling loan sharking and drugs
But loacalzo wasn't indicted, does that mean none of it ever happened???
John difronzo started jks and his car dealerships and bought his buildings with mob money, and yet he wasnt indicted for money laundering does that mean it didn't happen.

Those Cleveland guys that were loan sharking and pressuring that guy at mcCormic involved with Rudy fratto. Those cleveland guys were never indicted
What about the Cleveland mob guys that gave the Lamborghini to the Philly crew. Those Cleveland guys weren't indicted. Does that mean it didn't happen???

Matassa jr is a felon and is draining the funds from the transit union
Does that mean its not happening
Do you think matassa jr does any illegal activity with this union???
Is he not a member of the mob?? He wasn't indicted???did it not happen???

The point your trying to make might be valid in the short term. However, as time goes by, it becomes weaker and weaker. If you stretch your way of thinking out long enough, somebody can claim this or that is going on forever; regardless of the lack of evidence. Your entire argument is based on hypotheticals, louie. Are you going to be making the same argument in another ten years if/when we still haven't seen any political or labor cases involving the Chicago mob? It's the same problem you have with the Detroit and Buffalo families. How much time has to go by before you finally write them off?



Matassa is "draining the funds" from the union? And we know this how? Because he's a mobster and that's what mobsters do with unions? Sure, plenty have. But you're adding 1+1 and getting 3 in this case. More hypotheticals.

Number 1 he has a history of doing this. Why then would you assume he works for the local, since he's a made member, what is his purpose of working there???
Also the people that hired him must be in. Bed with the mob.
One simple background check or google search would bring up his history??
Anyone in the field of labor that deals with him on a regular basis has to know him and what he is and what he represents.How could anyone in labor in Chicago not know about his expulsion from the laborers an obviously they deal with him because the mob in the unions is a fact of life in Chicago, even today

Also don't tell me he's retired or retreated. He's mentioned in the news and court papers and was said to be a capo in Scott burnsteins family affair book.
I know if I was a "legit union treasure" I would sue the shit outta him for libel and slander unless of course I can't because whats been said and written and alleged is true.
The same goes for the banks family and jimmy deleo. I know if I was a "legitament" politician like those guys and not controlled by the mob then I would sue the shit outta John kass and the tribune and the FBI, unless of course I can't because what was written and alleged and stated by a fucking FBI agent is factually correct
Again don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's 1983, I know it's 2013. I'm just saying they have more labor union and political connections than you give them cedit for.

Fact is, they are a toothless tiger.

That essentially is what all these conversations are about.

And the bottom line is these days "The Outit" is about as formidable as a legitimate mid size business. No more, no less.

Back in the early 2000s the feds estimated the entire Outfit annual take at $200 million, which was almost certainly inflated.

These days it's far less. Which puts it squarely in the "small business" category.

They don't kill people and they have greatly, greatly diminished political connections.

Essentially it's over.