Look at the praise given to a corrupt, repressive country like Russia.





http://bigstory.ap.org/article/some-us-conservatives-laud-russias-anti-gay-bill

I think many on the "religious right" wouldn't agree with the clamp downs on free speech, though they certainly would agree with efforts to not follow "America’s reckless and decadent promotion of gender confusion, sexual perversion, and anti-biblical ideologies to youth."

What's ironic is you have no problem with government involvement in instituting gay marriage here in the U.S., whether it be by a gay judge in California, a governor or President who refuse to do their job and defend certain laws against gay marriage, etc., but you do have a problem with the government going against it in Russia.

Look there should be no national law that institutes gay marriage it should be left up to the states. However, there should not be laws "in the defense of marriage" or hindering and excluding gays. What Russia is doing is extremely disturbing to me not only because it's prejudiced but it's a sign that the country is being oppressed even more by that thug Vladimir Putin who masquerades as a politician and President. Fucking scumbag

Apart from what we think about gay marriage - what happens in Russia is a completely different thing. The new law against gay propaganda is (like so often in Russia) a rubber law. You can easily lock up people for allegedly propagating homosexuality. It may be enough if two men hold hands in public.
How would they have dealt with the kiss of Carter and Brezhnev? And how do they deal with special forces "Omon" who turn their backs to a mirror?

I doubt that many conservatives are in love with Putin after his giving asylum to that scumbag Snowden. The Rosenthals were executed for much less than what this kid did (that the Rosenberg were most likely innocent and persecuted out of mere anti-Semitism is actually beside the point) .

You mean letting the world know how much the NSA is spying the communication on each and every-one of us?

I hate to hijack Ronnie's thread because I like him. But yeah, that's exactly what I meant. Freedom isn't free, pal. If you didn't learn that from your Nazi forebearers, then you'll never get it. But I'd expect nothing less from the peanut gallery that makes up the European Left. After all, and I hate to beat a dead horse here, you're the same guy who admonished us Americans for cheering when that piece of shit bin-Laden caught one in the eye. Your contempt for this great country isn't even thinly veiled anymore, and everyone here knows it (why do you think your thread on the pressure cooker was such a flop?)

So here's hoping that Bradley Manning gets twenty to life, and that scumbag Snowden gets to stay in Russia for the rest of his life at the expense of never being able to see his family again. Unless he man's up, comes home, and faces the music. Then I'll actually have a modicum of respect for the guy. But in the interim, I hope he chokes to death on a bowl of borscht.

How could you not love Putin?

Amen. I'd like to see both Manning and Snowden drawn and qaurtered.

I'd like to see anyone be as cool as this -

Putin on horse -

Or Putin with bowtie -

Sorry Ronnie for the continuing hijacking of the thread.
Never say something like that again, please. You don't know what my family went through.

I don't know why you're taking the discussion down to a personal level.
Look, I don't feel any contempt for your country. (Why would I hang around in these boards?, Why would I visit your country time and again?) Please, don't confuse criticism towards a government with contempt towards a country. In fact, there's been more criticism from you against the current US administration than from me. My opinions may sound radical to you. But so do yours to me and very likely to most Europeans, not only the lefties in the "peanut gallery".

Anyway, I'm just curious about certain things. To paraphrase Vincent Vega: "It's the little differences", I'm curious about.
I do understand certain conservative positions, like the disapproval of legalizing abortions, capital punishment, etc.

But the Snowden controversy I really don't understand. Even from a conservative perspective: Why does everybody seems to be happy to let the NSA break the fourth amendment rights? "Freedom isn't free", yes, I know. But according to what we've heard so far, the NSA doesn't just restrict the 4th amendment, but acts as if it doesn't exist. (sorry if I don't use the legal terms here correctly.)
If we assume that the intentions of secret services or other governmental branches are always good, why do you need the 4th amendment at all?

Did you ever hear of their co defenden, Sobell, confessing in 2008? He said they were in on it, he had done 19 years in Alcatrez for his role in the case.

Then you should know better. Drastic times call for drastic measures.


Bullshit.


That you think I'm a conservative speaks volumes because only a European Lefty would think that. My politics are clearly middle of the road. If anything, as a New York City born grandson of immigrants, I've always identified with most Democratic social policies.

And I don't know why you're saying we when it comes to the 4th amendment. If Germany had a Constitution and a Bill of Rights, you wouldn't have given the world Hitler. America's great shame is slavery, yours is Hitler and the Nazis. And if you won't back off your criticism of my country, then I'll just keep throwing that right back in your face.

But we're done here. We're both guilty of derailing Ronnie's thread, so let's give it a rest.

Who the hell are the Rosenthals?

Jeez, Klyd. Thanks for pointing that out. It must have been a Freudian slip or something on my part. I obviously meant the Rosenbergs .

Ther were Julius and Ethel Rosenberg's heretofore unknown cousins who also gave away nuclear secrets. Until PB spilled this, only the NSA knew.

But marriage, by Defintion, is between a man and a woman.

Never, before now, in the World's history, has man been "married" to a man. Or a woman married to a woman.

Redefining the basic menaing of marriage ... how Orwellian..

Nowhere in our Judeo-Christian tradition, is there an allowence for "gay" marriage.

I believe the ultimate goal in having gay marriage, is to delude and to destroy traditional marriage. That's how I see it.

So what are we going to become.... France, or Greece.

Just because someone wants to jump off the cliff, doesn't mean I will hold their hand, on the way over...

-------------------------------------------

As for the NSA Data Collection..... The 3rd Reich would be extremely envious of our store of information we are able to exact on ANYONE, with just a keystroke !

Like they said in The Field of Dreams ....

"Build It and THEY Will Come."

We're building this All-Knowing Capable Data Base --- and They (The Tyrants) WILL Come. And that, will not be a Field of Dreams, but of a Nightmares, when that happens....Whatever "Party" that comes under.... National Socialists, or otherwise.

You are wrong. There was same sex marriage until about the third century. And why are you dragging France into this? They have a ban on Gay marriage.

And how does the fact that two guys or two women are married interfere with a straight person's marriage.

Why don't you stop with your right wing talking points and THINK.

If anything, it's a sign that he's a populist. You may argue that Russia is 'undemocratic', but on this specific issue, I'm sure that Putin has the support of majority of Russians. You have to understand that Eastern Europe (ex-'communist' states) has a bit different mentality from the rest of the West when it comes to social issues such as this LGBT 'rights movement'/ideology. People here are more cynical about political correctness and all kinds of 'rights' movements. Even the leftists are often hostile to some of these trends becuase many of them are nostalgic about the former socialist authoritarian systems which were to some extent socially conservative on some issues, at least compared to today's (marxist) left. Those 'old school' commie regimes would never allow any manifestation of pro-LGBT movements back in those days. Anyone participating in such subversive political activities would be beaten by the police.

Anyway, in Eastern Europe, whenever the public is given the power to decide about issues such as gay marriage and adoption, the majority is against it. You had a referendum about it last year in Slovenia about the new family law which wanted to extend rights for gay community but it was rejected - and Slovenia is one of the most leftist EE countries. This year in Croatia, more than 700,000 people signed petition for anti-gay marriage referendum (the country has a total population of around 5 million) and 2 years ago the gay pride parade in Split was aborted because of violent protests. In Belgrade, they never even had such parade and in the last few years they more or less stopped trying becuase it would cause an outrage. In Montenegro you had riots just few weeks ago. In Budapest too (few years ago). And let's not even start about Poland, they're like the most Catholic country in Europe. Just to give you some examples. Russia is no exception and that's just how people feel about these issues. This law was actually a democratic move from Putin in the true meaning of the word. Putin's rule is democratic in some bonapartist sense.

I support Putin on this issue. It's not gays who are the problem, the 'gay-rights propagandizers' are as it was explained by Putin.

Russia’s contentious law was signed by President Vladimir Putin in late June, imposing fines on individuals accused of spreading “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations” to minors, and even proposing penalties for those who express these views online or in the news media. Gay pride rallies also are banned.

This law is a reaction to agressive propaganda of LGBT ideology (to give it a name) by gay activists or whatever you want to call them. As I said, the majority of people in EE are against it or at least indefferent to such propaganda - the so-called 'progressive' ideas from the West have not managed to permeate the society in such a way as in Western Europe, although they're of course present to some extent. Well, it's not only EE, I would dare to say that also a significant part of southern Europe has been equally reluctant to accept these ideas. I know this is not the case in Germany and northern Europe.

Anyway, LGBT rights activists, feminist groups and all kinds of NGOs working in such environments are becomming more and more bitter and agressive because they're beginning to understand that no matter how much they try, there's still going to be a huge part of population that is either against them or doesn't give a f???. They're extremely self-righteous and simply don't accept other views on this issue, so they often resort to mocking the opposition and primitive provocations which creates this athmosphere of "kulturkampf" and even further alienates them from more conservative part of the population.

The worst thing about them is that they're full of hypocrisy. These activists pretend to be some sort of 'oppressed revolutionaries', but in reality they're unconditionally supported by the 'elites'. They have the backing of the media which is parroting almost anything they say and which accuses any alleged "homophobe" of being against 'human rights' and stuff like that - that's what they always do, resort to hysteria and emotions. How is one supposed to defend himself when publicly accused of being against human rights or being a homophobe? If you don't have means to write an essay-long answer and publish it somewhere where it will actually be read and heard, you can't really do anything.

It's no secret that gay rights activists and propagandists are financed and protected by the political 'elites' of particular countries (with exceptions like Belarus and Russia of course), the EU and also by organizations like NED ("National Endowment for Democracy"). Take those FEMEN activists for example, it's nothing but a deliberate provocation. All kinds of institutions from the West finance and support such groups and observe how the local populations react to such provocations, in other words, they're basically experimenting with people and their emotions. Provocateurs vandalize churches and monuments (FEMEN activists demolished a cross which was dedicated to the victims of holodomor in Ukraine, for example, a despicable and disgusting act) and call it 'political activism' and when the state (rightfully so) takes measures against it, bunch of hysterical westerners protest with some empty rhetoric about human rights.

It's loathsome how such people resort to 'petite-bourgeoisie' hyper-moralizing and hysteria about homophobia on one side, only to change into complete ultra-militant fanatics when the discussion is about the Catholic Church (or Orthodox Churches) or anything that derives from traditional patriarchal society. I hate such double standards.

Another problem with LGBT ideology is that it always comes together with a particular form of eurocentrism and some form of 'racism'. When the adherents of this ideology cite examples which supposedly confirm that their 'values' are completely normal, they always mention some western/northern European countries (they often do this here in countries that are 'not so progressive' by their standards). "They have this law in Sweden, that law in Holland etc." The vast majority of the world doesn't have such laws and doesn't know about any 'gay rights', but for them this isn't important because this tiny part of the world somehow knows better as if (northern) Europeans were some sort of "herrenvolk". Of course, they'll never say anything like this, but this would be the only circumstance in which their argument would make sense so they're in a way implicitly saying just that. They have this patronizing attitude to islamic countries and more conservative parts of Europe, as if we were still living in the 19th century and have to be 'civilized' by the 21st century progressivists.

The truth is rather the opposite, for centuries now Europe has been a sick continent and all the sick ideologies which created so much evil originate from western Europe - jacobinism, (scientific) racism, eugenics, euthanasia, social darwinism, marxism, nazism etc. - needless to say, all of them were hailed as progressive when introduced, so having a 'progressive' ideology is not a good thing per se. This LGBT obsession and hysteria is just the latest fashion but it is from the same source. So it's only natural that people are sceptical about it. I mean, those gay rights groups hand out propaganda flyers to children in schools where they can read that "gender doesn't exist" and similar sick nonsense. I don't see this as something normal, sorry.

So it's not about the gays as such but about this agressive ideology which viciously attacks what the majority of the population respects. Many people practice gay lifestyle but don't want to have anything to do with this LGTB parade circus.

What? Where?

Hardly anywhere. But dontomasso thinks if there was the odd "gay marriage" here or there down through the millenia, he can argue that there's always been gay marriage. Generally speaking, it's virtually unheard of. But libs LOVE to rewrite history to suit their agenda.

Well we certainly know what schools Ivy League did not attend. I cant give you people a detailed history here, but it was permitted in Messopotamia, Assyria, Ancient Greece, Rome (until it was outlawed in 342 AD by Constantine) and Fujian China until the Ming Dynasty, to name a few. It was sanctioned but not formalized elsewhere in the ancient world.

Instead of the tired olf "libs do this and that" why dont you ppeople turn off Fox and do some reading?

Why? What's wrong with what they did (and don't tell me anything like "if you don't understand it by yourself, it's useless to explain it to you")?
I like what they did. I hope somebody in Russia exposes Putin's system in the same way they exposed the American one. I hate politicians, the military and especially the secret services, they deserve to be shitted on.

You hate the very military that protects you? Yeah, that's really mature .

It's one thing to hate war. That's fine; so do I. But if you actually mean what you just posted, then you're no better than the ungrateful scumbags who spit on the U.S. troops when they came home from Vietnam.

We both know what the military of any country does in the countries they invade. To me, a child shot dead by a sadistic soldier is an argument that outweighs everything that you or anybody else can say in their defense. To make my opinion clearer, I don't care about which country is the attacker and which country is under attack, if it's communism against capitalism, Islam vs Christianity etc. KILLING INNOCENTS IS BAD. PERIOD.

How old are you and what country are you from?

Just answer me and don't tell me that it has nothing to do with anything. Because you sound like a naive child.

I am 26, I am Russian, but have been living in Italy for 13 years. If you don't believe me, that's your choice.

Until we will continue saying that "war is bad, but the military is good", wars will continue.

You're naive if you believe that all war will just end without a military.

And why wouldn't I believe you? You sound like you're in your mid 20's with a psyche formed in a scumbag totalitarian country. It's not your fault. If your parents cared anything about you they would have tried to get you out sooner. I actually pity you. But I'm glad you ended up in Italy.

Have you ever heard about the concept of "arrogance" and "fanaticism"? That's what you are made of, as it seems from your posts in this particular thread. In the others you make sense, but here you seem to come from a country far more totalitarian than mine, as you justify murder of innocent people by soldiers, and I don't.
Calling a "naive child" everybody who doesn't agree with you is a clear sign of arrogance and fanaticism (which is the same as "patriotism").
Anyway, I would prefer to be a naive child than somebody who justifies murder for the good of the country.

Everybody can vomit arrogance and insults, what about EXPLAINING your point of view?