I have commented on Fosco’s American News Post and personally have relatives who were affiliated with the Outfit (one who was murdered). The information about Chicago on this website is so totally off-base that it is offensive, intellectually. It is clear to me that the people providing information here get it from books or possibly some of the more outlandish ANP comments. Much of this site’s content is obviously people’s own armchair assessments and wishful thinking, a few true crime readers espousing romantic theories from behind the veneer of a message board. I have no admiration for the Outfit these days, and it is still frankly embarrassing to read some of the chatter on these forums. Though I got over my Outfit-ogling years ago, I feel strangely compelled to clear the air on some of this stuff.

The “number of made guys” is totally irrelevant. Johnny DiFronzo and his dog could be the Chicago Outfit if the numbers dwindled enough. Thirty is a decent, possibly even charitable, estimate. For those of you who are Outfit cheerleaders, this “low enrollment” is not a bad thing because over the past century numerous bosses established the corrupt political infrastructure and deep ties to law enforcement that will sustain the Outfit for decades to come. The Outfit does not need large numbers to do what it does. Having a large roster these days is not feasible and would probably be counterproductive.  In all likelihood, the 2013 Outfit would be just as lean and low-profile with Accardo at the helm. There are also plenty of wanna-bes and “star struck” posers (especially municipal workers, restaurateurs, and business owners), as well as sons, grandsons, and nephews of Outfit guys who will do anything to assist the Outfit just to feel attached to it. Since made guys share in the profits of the Outfit then it is obviously in its best interest of to keep their ranks “lite” especially when there is no shortage of volunteers willing to “work” for free. There is more loyalty to and admiration for the Outfit in certain pockets of Italian-American Chicago than there is in Brazil for particular soccer teams, and that is not an exaggeration.

Any source claiming that the Outfit formally initiates non-Italians is a nonsense source. Chicago is as much a traditional organization as any other LCN family in the U.S. In the first part of the 20th century, many Italian-Americans in Chicago adopted Anglo/Irish surnames to camouflage their ethnicity because Irish-Americans ran, and still run, the City of Chicago and State of Illinois to this day. (There was a news story last year about Michelle Obama being unnerved by the Irish-Catholic triumvirate running Chicago and Illinois—Daley, Madigan, and Hynes.) Obvious examples are: Jack McGurn, Joey O’Brien, Joe Arnold, Pat Marcy, etc., were all Italians whose adopted Irish names belied their true identities. The present day Banks family of the 36th Ward is Italian (Panebianco). This list goes on and on, and I am just restating the obvious.

Also, Chicago being the most segregated metropolis in the country, the Outfit has always worked with criminals of other cultural backgrounds (often Greek), and though these folks are not made, their relationship with the Outfit is often worthwhile. These “associates” can make more money than some of the more dimwitted or shelved made guys. Gus Alex (Greek) probably made more money than 99% of made guys. Present day money maker Casey Szaflarski has probably earned more under the tutelage of Outfit than most active made guys in the past ten years. Nick Calabrese, who was made, earned more on the legit as a union guy at McCormick Place than he ever did in the Outfit. Schweihs was a wealthy extortionist because he was a killer; he was never made. Porky (Polish) is just a killer, not made, certainly not a boss of any kind, and not wealthy at all. The only instance I can think of in which someone who did not have an Italian surname could have been “made” might have been Harry Aleman (Alemán), a killer who was half Latino but also had the benefit of being Joe Ferriola’s nephew. And that is only if Harry was made. I am not convinced that he ever was. (As a side note: Being one himself, Accardo had a latent suspicion of Italians, often preferring the company and trusting the business acumen of non-Italians.)

Family Secrets was certainly a tidal wave, but, aside from that, the Outfit’s low numbers have resulted in comparatively few major RICO cases against it. The made guys are very well insulated by all the layers of runners, lackeys, and knock-around-guys. There is a lot of loyalty, too, as many Outfit guys are related or “interrelated” in some way. I am pretty sure there will be another RICO major case before the end of the decade, but that will not be the end of the Outfit. The City of Chicago is such a travesty of what an American city should be (the same goes for the entire State) that it simply could not function without the existence of the Italian mob and concomitant Irish-American pollies who are really just are popularly elected gangsters themselves. The Outfit is part of Illinois political and economic infrastructure, and after Dion O’Banion was killed, it was almost as if all the Irish gangsters put on suits and became entrenched in politics.

For anyone pulling for the Chicago Outfit—don’t worry! It is not going anywhere! For the Outfit to die, the government would literally have to burn Illinois, Wisconsin, Arizona, Las Vegas, parts of Florida and Central America completely to the ground (possibly detonate a nuclear bomb in Melrose Park just to be absolutely sure), repopulate it with residents of other states, and start from scratch.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wisconsin, Arizona, Florida, Las Vegas and.... CENTRAL AMERICA?

Endemic corruption?


The outfit a political, let alone NATIONAL, LET ALONE INTERNATIONAL syndicate?

Please.

YAWN.




PS: Any evidence? Didn't think so.

You're missing the central point of the post. The Outfit is not big; it does not need to be. Mooney established gambling outposts in Central America that exist to this day. The Bastones (Cicero) supervised them after he was killed, and they went to Elmwood Park after Aiuppa and Carlisi died. This is not anything new. Read about Michael Posner in Aruba. You might be able to find something about Joey DeVita on the internet--an Outfit guy who retired to Arizona. He oversees the Outfit's spotty gambling interests outside of Illinois. I'm not saying that there's this vast operation, but it does exist. The Outfit established an infrastructure of the years.

I wish some made guy from the Outfit would just write a book to clear up all this mess!

How's stone park these days?

Stonepark:

Those with direct knowledge of the outfit (posters Chicago, Huron) and those who substantiate arguments with evidence (posters Ivy) all have indicated that the outfit is a shadow of itself with little to no political connections let alone a national or international reach/influence/operations.

Just because some guy from Elmwood park retires and buys a ranch in Montana doesn't mean the outfit is in Montana. Nor does it mean if I call up poster Chicago and give him my action is the outfit in NY.

And unless you can show evidence otherwise the preponderance of information is as I've stated.

Apologies to posters Chicago, Huron and Ivy if I've incorrectly spoken for you.

It's widely known that DeVita is in Arizona as well as the casinos in central America. Vegas not much anymore but they're still there. Florida no idea. Not as far fetched as you think it is Sonny.

I agree with some of the original post but the numbers do matter. Without a core group of made guys, there really is no Outfit anymore. Just family members, friends, and associates scattered here and there, many having gone completely legit. It's important not to extend that Outfit label too far, where it doesn't really apply. Also, while I agree the smaller size of today's Outfit is, in part, intentional, one can't ignore attrition being a factor as well.

Most of the Outfit's presence does not extend beyond Chicago and it's suburbs within Cook County. Very little activity out west anymore. The Crazy Horse Too bust was the last big case out there and that was a decade ago now. And when was the last time anyone read anything about any Outfit operations in Florida? Maybe some old guys living out their twilight years there but not much else, I'd expect. Posner does have the Excelsior in Aruba but I'm not aware of any other interests in Central America or anywhere else. Back in 2005, it was reported some investors of a tribal casino boat (Lac du Flambeau) off the coast of Mexico did have Outfit connections but that project never panned out.

You'll also notice that the non-Italian names that always get listed when it comes to the Outfit's working with other ethnic groups are usually long dead.

Finally, to equate the Outfit with the "government" of Chicago is also a highly outdated notion. Chicago couldn't function without the Italian mob or corrupt Irish politicians? C'mon. As I've said many times, all or even most of the corruption in both the city and state has nothing to do with the mob.

Still a lotta corruption in the suburbs ivy..
Will county, dupage county, Rockford

This is your typical response. Still a lotta this....still a lotta that. Well, the devil is in the details, as they say. There is still a lot of corruption in Chicago and it's suburbs, period. However, only a relatively small portion of it seems to be connected to the Outfit.

Is there mob corruption in the actual city of Chicago today? Barely any. But you're completely wrong about some of the suburbs.

It's easy for you to say that. Actually coming up with some good examples is another matter. When one actually keeps track of stuff, as I do, there are still examples of the Outfit taking advantage of the general corruption in Chicago and it's suburbs. But it's not a case of the corruption revolving around the Outfit. Some of those would include:

* In the 2000 Centraccio case, included in the allegations were local police being paid off to protect gambling operations.

* The 2001 case involving the town of Cicero insurance scandal.

* In 2001, the the Menominee Indian tribe pulled out of a Kenosha casino deal because one of it's major investors was Morgan Murphy Jr., a former Chicago congressman who had ties to an Chicago LCN-connected labor official.

* The November 2004 "Hired Truck" scandal, where several companies, including mob-connected ones, were involved in bid-rigging for city contracts.

* From 2005 to 2011, there were several news stories about DiFronzo's companies getting contracts in various local townships.

* In 2005, two parole officials indicted on charges of voting to release Chicago LCN associate Harry Aleman in exchange for one of the official's sons receiving help to secure employment as a singer in Las Vegas. (This was in Springfield)

And there's always rumors, allegations, and hearsay about guys like James DeLeo. Speculation about people at the Thomas Benigno fundraiser. Some Outfit-connected people are able to get city jobs. Some current or former cops (Scalise, Natale, Handhart, Scalvo, Vitalo, Formato) involved in Outfit cases.

International? The genovese are intergalactal.... The chin ran the numbers game with irish associate and nasa racketeer buzz aldrin on the moon


just to relate to u guys how dumb the dumb reporter based comments are.... In the late nineties, there was a guy close to the westside hoboken crew. Call him sam. its not his name but it doesnt matter. To call him a degenerate gambler would be a gross understatement. He was in AC by friday evenings and would leave by monday mornings. Like clockwork, always lost money. He was a boom operator and a agent for bobby manna. He got the best comps, paid rooms, a meal or two. This casino manager whos a cousin of tony rotolo in bobbys crew eventually gets sam a job working junkets/referal/customer service type work. In the mid 2000s he started working in the offshore industry. He became a managing partner in 2008-09ish. He basically rewrote the book on online bonuses. He lives in a mansion in costa rica that makes malibu look like morningside hts. Anyone who has ever bet online knows this book, it is one of the top books that service americans. This guy sam by all rules is still a genovese associate. Is this book genovese connected book? Sure. Is it genovese CONTROLLED? No. I doubt sammy has kicked anything up in ten years, he probly still owes them money. Does this make the genovese an international organization? NO. This book takes action all over.... Canada, UK, China (huge market).... Of course some reporter gets a hold of the whole story and the genovese family is expanding to china.... Its reporter bullshit. Ive never read past wikipedia page on the chicago outfit and i can tell u now these big connections dont ammount to shit.

And nicky, whats with u argueing how possible it is like your rooting for the entire family to come back and be strong? Rooting for a guy or two i can understand. Im rooting for big frank in brooklyn. Im rooting that they dont legalize gambling in nj. But u dont see me hoping the colombo family can regain their ranks.

Would this be Carmen Cicalese?

No its not. And for christ sakes i go out of my way NOT to say this guys name or his business and you think if u guess right ill just spill the fucking beans?

I figured if it was, you would simply verify. Not exactly any harm in that. I don't think the FBI is going to fly down to Costa Rica, kick down the guy's door, and arrest/extradite him because you mentioned his name on an internet forum. But that's me.

Well look at this internet gossip bullshit that goes around here about outfit in aruba. Exactly what i was saying. then u would go around posting it on mob forums and shit. Next thing u know xxxxx is a genoves book.... Same goes for chicago corruption. An article comes out and a few apologetic posters turn an allegation into fact.

You guys are killing it tonight...great thread..some truth in what Stone Park said, but the Outfit does NOT have that kind of reach anymore. Are they on the verge of extinction? NO... Are they the colossus they were? No..

As they say "the truth lies somewhere in between"

Great thread hope one day the truth come out

+1000 Skinny

You don't know what you're talking about open your Eyes Nicky what corruption post one related case within the past 5 fuck it 10 years verifying what you say. Why does it mean so much to you that there's a Outfit you make yourself look like a joker. Do you writes letters to gangsters In prison? I could see you doing that. You should send Little Jimmy a pic of your little jimmy maybe he'll send you one back you can kiss every night before bed. LOL I KID I KID.

Cicero with the Betty Maltese situation. Why the fuck would I write letters to prisoners? Wow you didn't say your gay saying "dickride" in that whole responce! Congrats

Cicero what, that was 01. Stop dickriding.

Why are there so many threads with arguments over how large of an organization Chicago has? I see many New York vs Chicago type fights on here too, it gets a bit funny. Sorry, but I am starting to laugh as I read through some of them. I almost want to start a thread insisting Los Angeles has bigger and more active organization than both

Toronto N'Drangheta (Not Vito) vs Outfit?

Place your bets gents.

(I can't work out if I'm serious either)

The Cicero crew is alive & well, don't be ridiculous.

Yeah Cicero is alive but the widespread corruption that once was there is gone.

dwfdef

hahahahahahahahah so true...they are talking about it here to and weed...im begging actually