I could see that too, I guess...Either way Lombardo would have been on the spot and definitely would have been given their tickets.

Yeah you were right Ivy. PB explained it to me.

The american mafia could survive only just having as a reference the Ndrangheta, which is almost impenetrable and which supplanted in power the Sicilian Mafia.
The boys of the Ndrangheta grow and are introduced through marriages between young people who are already introduced, creating some blood ties, because no one would betray, this would impact on his family, exposing it to transversal vengeances, in Calabria Ndrangheta kids grow already knowing what is their fate, they are already indoctrinated as children.
In addition, the division into local and untouchable hierarchy that undergoes continuous changes with degrees that are discovered by the police more often, making the Ndrangheta a mixture of a criminal organization and a Masonic lodge.

If the mafia goes completely white collar, is that a bad thing? At the end of the day it's about money and connections which the white collar stuff gets you. I assume you would still need some muscle around just in case. I'm not sure why there is such a focus on street rackets like gambling and poker machines being the be-all/end-all definition of OC. Would love to hear your guys thoughts.

[/quote]THIS IS WHY ITS CALL MY OPINION! [/quote]

And my opinion sir is that you must be 15 or have no real knowledge of the street racket. [/quote]

It still my opinion sometime this sh*t feel like school everyone want to be the COOL KIDS. [/quote]


think about what you are saying...political power? what kind? local? state? federal? explain yourself a little better...and then ask why any politician would have an adavantage being a aligned with some wiseguy...can you imagine Bloomberg needing any of the mutts that are calling themselves wiseguys? Imagine Bloomberg having lunch at a Queens diner with Tommy DiFiore...those days are over and NEVER coming back

the government is the new mafia any way...they took everything...gambling, loans...its all legal now in some way or form

omerta'?????...when do you see that coming back?

not trying to be a cool kid, just saying your points are a pipe dream

the glory days you see on tv are far far far gone

everyone with any knowledge on here already told you

either you got handed a great garbage/construction business by a family member or extremely close friend (and that club has dwindled to a few) or you are taking bets, loaning out or selling drugs and how long do you think that lasts until you are on the radar and bye bye

much respect to you amigo

the new Bonnano boss was arrested for shaking down porno shops a decade ago...its over

No pipe dream my friend because i do not care my answer was the step they need to take to attempt to regain it.

glad you clarified you are clueless

Sticks and Stones!

Difiore or mancuso?

Can they regain what they had? No. Not close. Can they grow, yea. I think for the most part recently they have proved that.

The problems they have today boil down to two things. Greed and a lack of schooling. Look at these last bonanno arrests. A boss loaning out money directly and meeting with pr associates. Having weed and guns in ur home. I was reading that colombo indictment from 2011. That russo captain that flipped was made for a year before he was made captain. Then he goes along on fucking home invasions. And mikey u robbing card games as a fucking captain. The westside schools guys for yrs as acting and decide if they are capable of becoming captains. Thats the difference and it shows. They wont promote guys they dont think are capable. If theres no one they will send a guy from another crew to be acting. Or have an established captain oversee the crew. All this drives internet guys like ivy nuts but just based off indictments theres no way to know. Are there willing italian kids? Yes. A ton. The problem is the street guys in these nhoods are like the cool kids in school. (Some of them). Ive seen grown men ass kissing a street guys kid.... Everyone is tell so and so i said hi! A good portion of these guys still comand respect and the awe of ppl who dont know that life.

Can they regain what they had? No. Not close. Can they grow, yea. I think for the most part recently they have proved that.

The problems they have today boil down to two things. Greed and a lack of schooling. Look at these last bonanno arrests. A boss loaning out money directly and meeting with pr associates. Having weed and guns in ur home. I was reading that colombo indictment from 2011. That russo captain that flipped was made for a year before he was made captain. Then he goes along on fucking home invasions. And mikey u robbing card games as a fucking captain. The westside schools guys for yrs as acting and decide if they are capable of becoming captains. Thats the difference and it shows. They wont promote guys they dont think are capable. If theres no one they will send a guy from another crew to be acting. Or have an established captain oversee the crew. All this drives internet guys like ivy nuts but just based off indictments theres no way to know. Are there willing italian kids? Yes. A ton. The problem is the street guys in these nhoods are like the cool kids in school. (Some of them). Ive seen grown men ass kissing a street guys kid.... Everyone is tell so and so i said hi! A good portion of these guys still comand respect and the awe of ppl who dont know that life.

I heard that through history only 30 'Ndrangheta guys have become "pentiti" and only one of those was some sort of 'captain'. Considering the huge number of 'Ndrangheta connected guys in Calabria and the rest of Italy and Europe, this is really a small number. They're by far the most respected in the criminal world because they never rat and that's why they're so successfull.

Anyway, I think that such structure is impossible to implement in the USA. 'Ndrangheta prospers because its base is a rural mono-ethnic region with almost 'medieval' values when it comes to marriage, patriarchy and clan. I'm talking about rural parts of Calabria, such as the famous village of San Luca for example. 'Ndrangheta has been recognized as a supreme authority for decades, people simply don't trust the state and there's not much the government can do about it.

Urban areas of USA where American LCN exists are a completely different environment though and it's impossible to completely isolate from it and try to live by some mediterranean rural patriarchal code of honour. Things did work well for the American mafia for a certain period of time, when the Italian-Americans haven't assimilated yet and lived in their neighbourhoods where omerta existed on a certain level, but from what I read such neighbourhoods no longer exists and LCN has difficulties recruiting new members. Once the American LCN lost its base, the decline became only a matter of time.

tommy d

exactly my point...its a joke...you got guys high up in the hierarchy sort of speak and they are pulling bullshit capers

is there still money to be made? ABSOLUTELY

the golden age though is so far from over its not even close

@ slava: +1

@ cheech: /me chuckles

@ baldo: the reason there is minimal transference by the mob from blu collar gambling and loan to white collar (stock fraud etc) is simply because the mob is composed of blue collar guys.

Operating a juice book and manipulating a stock price are two very very different things. It's not a case whereby the admin of a family can just 'decide' to move into white collar crimes. The intellect and skill base isn't there. If it was, they wouldn't be in the mob in the first place.

They'd be robbing/stealing and fucking people over from Goldman Sachs. Legally.

Heres a good link to information about the mafias involvment with the stock market. Its from 2000 so nothing recent but still a good read.


http://www.sec.gov/news/testimony/ts142000.htm

Question. If there is not a sufficient recruiting pool in America, why don't they recruit people from Sicily? True these guys todays are 5th/6th gen Italian-Americans but at least some have to have connections back home.

When guys suggest just recruiting guys from Sicily, what exactly makes anyone think Sicilians want to be in this country? They do have their own minds and can think. I always hear it put the way you did, and it implies that sicilians are some sort of property and can just be brought here if wanted.
Sicilians don't want to be here. They're happy where they are.
And if they do come here, then what? They're here as visitor, which means they can only stay 6 months and have to keep going back to renew visitor status to come back here. Eventually they may be granted a visa, but if not, they'll get tossed out.
It's not as easy as just recruit sicilians to come here. Nobody ever puts much thought into that statement.

Carmela haven't you said the living conditions in southern Italy are still bad and many would immigrate here if they could?

No, that wasn't me. I've said Italy and Sicily's unemployment rate is at all time high, something like 30%. Places in Sicily look like ghetto towns over here. No air, no washer/dryer, simple things they don't have that we could never live without over here. BUT, I said what makes them happy is just being surrounded by their family and food. Life is simple. They don't want to be here to live.

^Maybe we could take a page out of there book sometime

Carmela, I speak as a boy of southern Italy, and I tell you that the situation is truly tragic and more come down to the south, more it becomes worse. There is a terrible youth unemployment, and though I'm a university student, I don't know if I'll find work. To tell the truth a lot of people from Sicily, Calabria Campania etc. emigrate no longer in America but in Europe because it suits him more by having a good chance of success while remaining close to home (a friend of mine emigrated in Toulouse in France). That said, if the American Mafia would restore the old bridge with the mother country, he would be recruited (assuming that they'll can enter in the United States) many criminals from all over Italy not only from the south.

We're pretty much saying the same thing. I wish you luck finding a job when you graduate.
I also have a cousin that just 2 weeks ago moved out of Agrigento to Tenerife, Spain, for work, after Italcementi officially closed about 6 months or so ago in Italy. He thought he had a secure job, who would think a company such as Italcementi would ever close.
But going to Spain, France, etc is easy with a Euro passport. It's not like trying to get a visa in the US.

I still say it's not so easy to just "recruit" guys to the US. Coming into the US isn't as easy. It's not like mexicans. Once they catch up with you, you're out. And if you DO get a visa, and you go back to Italy and stay in Italy for extended period of time, they'll revoke your visa for 10 years to this country. Whatever they'd do as far as mafia recruitment, it'd have to be as visitors; back and forth every 6 months or less.

That's spot-on, Carmela. The Mexicans can crawl under a fence to get here, the Italians can't. And even if Southern Italians and Sicilians were inclined to leave their family lives behind and come here legally, the immigration laws no longer favor Western Europeans. And that's not going to change anytime soon, if ever. The United States government would rather welcome potential terrorists than Western Europeans today, all in the name of "fair" demographics. And people wonder why this country is so fucked up .

An American citizen can always marry some one from Italy and bring them here. A real or just for show wedding.

There's a lot of smart people in the mafia, they will find a way if they want to.

You're over a decade behind. This hasn't been the case since ICE took over after 9/11.

EXACTLY.

And not only will you get deported, you'll be treated almost like a terrorist while you're incarcerated and waiting to get shipped back. It's no fucking joke.

But Sandra Bullock did it in 'The Proposal'?!

hysterical