Let's hope he wasn't the boss. He basically went down for stealing jewelry and a pipe bomb.

Ivy League is the FBI not above disinformation to suit its own interests? Would it be the first time they tried to stir a shitstorm on the street with naming one guy as who they feel as the boss to either keep the REAL target off guard or to make themselves look better when they indict and convict who they SAY was the boss? As for the internet and the pics etc I will say this....No I'm not an Outfit guy. No I'm not privy to who is made and who is a boss etc. And no I'm no fucking groupie. I do know Cicero, however. I have met many of these guys just from growing up where I did and through certain misguided family members. No I will not drop names and no I am not some idiot who wants ppl to be impressed because I grew up in an environment where I happened to know many of these guys. Believe me don't believe me wipe yourself with my posts lol it makes no diff to me..:) Sarno was no boss and not only was he never a boss, the FBI is smart enough to know that as well. They know DAMN WELL who the real power is they just wanted the headline of OUTFIT BOSS SARNO CONVICTED OF ETC..The next guy they indict will be the next boss

Agreed on most points.

I wouldn't have called it a full scale investigation into the poker machines. There was more than just poker machines going on at the Redwood. It was a known speakeasy for Chinatown soldiers & had been being monitored for years. The poker machine racket is still alive & well throughout the Chicagoland area. The Outfit still have interests within city limits, but post-bob Cooley, their operations are largely based out of the surrounding suburbs.

Also, grand avenue is far from "white collar". They aren't as gritty as Chinatown, but they are still very much street level. You still have the younger guys in that crew doing shit like jacking computers off trucks at Fulton & Wolcott LOL. People assume That because grand Ave is directly connected with elmwood that they are white collar as well.

Exactly. All of this. The sarno being boss bullshit Was a rouse to try & put JI & SD back in the can, and to grab headlines. Nothing more.

Exactly. And he didn't even have the confidence in his own crew to carry it out LOL. He tried to rope Caruso into it & he refused, so he turned to the bikers.

The article I linked to said 12 taverns were raided. That's pretty much a full-on investigation, unless it's wrong.

One thing about Sarno being caught heading up the B&E ring would indicate that the profits from the gambling are probably not what some people think; only a fool would risk going down on running a stolen jewelry racket when they are already sitting on a gambling fortune.

Twelve taverns throughout the entire city of Chicago? Nah. Maybe a full on investigation in Danville or something lol. They used the machines as an excuse to shut down a few well known crew hangouts.

Also, the sarno family is extremely wealthy, So I dunno what to tell ya about that...

Believe me, you would have never seen DiFronzo etc. meeting with Sarno to discuss Outfit business. LOL

Nobody said the Grand Ave guys were saints. But do you really think that some younger Grand Ave guys jacking computers off trucks are really part of a big Outfit enterprise like Poker machines, Bookmaking, Loan sharking etc. like the old days? Sounds to me like you have a few young soldier/associates jacking some shit on their own.

Well, 12 in Bridgeport.

No offense but I doubt the FBI would go out of their way to shut down known mob hangouts just for the hell of it.

I imagine they have better things to do than inconvenience a few wise guys by forcing them to find a new watering hole.

There are other mobbed up spots in the city they could have tried to close if that was their goal.

I don't really know. Feds put the entire Outfit take at $200 million annually a long time ago, at least 10 years ago, as that figure was cited in John Binder's book.

Joe Fosco for what it's worth thought that was way overblown, although I know he isn't really seen as a credible source for various reasons.

Absolutely not, that's not What I was insinuating at all. I was just pointing out that grand Ave can be lumped into the same category as the southern groups. Elmwood park is something else altogether.

I agree that the DiFronzos, Andriacchi and D'Amico are out of it. Regardless of whether there is a beef or was ever a beef between Elmwood Park and Cicero, you know darn well each of those EP guys has muscle to call into play that is independent of Cicero to defend their interests if need be. That in and of itself may be a main reason why the Grand Avenue Crew is still there, who knows??? Those are some rough guys...

What about Cataudella and Matassa in terms of rank? Also is Zitello still active in Chicago or down in Florida?

2 orders of the Fried Ravioli appetizer from RoSal's will do it to ya!

Cataudella is 'Acting Front Boss of Cicero' which makes him front boss of the Southern Outfit.
Matassa belongs to Elmwood Park. He was made into the North Side/Rush St years ago with Vince Solano. That Crew pretty much ended in 1992 when Solano died. Matassa then went with Elmwood Park because it's on the North Side. He belongs to Johnny.

Chicago, let us know after you've consulted your JMS confidant.

Also, grand Ave crew is in no way defunct, another ludicrous statement based off of absolutely nothing. And there is no Melrose park crew, as was previously pointed out.

Not so! ever been to chicago theres lotz of nieborhoods with old peoples like myself. you give em credit at place with slots (you get the picture. Don't ax me for any of them figures but there are places that make a few thousand dollars a day.

^^^^ to comment on the machines.... If you look at his expense sheet, hes spending like 180k a year in labor.... At first i thought repairs, but thats a different spot. For you ppl who still are lost HES SKIMMING. So while he claims 110k or whatever on his 1040 hes making about 300k, idk what he kicked up, dont know who that was/position whatever. Not that bad imo, maybe i wandered onto a forum full of billionaires. Machines are always big. Not as much with the young hip crowd... More older guys or blue collar guys. Which is why if they are in a bar its gonna be a dive or a pool hall, bowling alley... In jersey they are bigger in gas stations/corner stores and cafes. Cafes are popular places to like red said line up a rooms wall with them bc they dont have a 300,000 dollar liquor liscense to lose when they get caught. Big in social clubs... They used to have special just machine clubs that looked like those video arcade places they legalized in fla. Im sure you probly had a dozen of so in your area red haha

You're just repeating yourself without answering any of my questions. And it's because you can't. If you want to believe Sarno was never acting boss, fine, but don't try and pass it off as anything more than your opinion.



Maybe not but you'll get a lot more from valid online sources than the legion of self-proclaimed insiders who come and go on these forums.



The problem is, I see that same excuse about "misinformation from the feds" used all the time. Other posters said it about this or that family in New York. It seems to be an excuse to dismiss what the feds say when somebody doesn't agree with them. Again, if you don't believe Sarno was acting boss, fine, but the feds apparently believed it and that's good enough for me.



Well, the Outfit (like other families) has always been involved in burglaries.



Melrose Park is another name for the Cicero crew. The term was used in the Family Secrets case. As for Grand Avenue, if the Outfit is down to 2 or 3 crews, it seems to be the odd one out.

Wow...conversing with you is like attempting to educate a third grader on quantum physics. And it really shouldn't be. Again, this is not rocket science.

It isn't my opinion that mike sarno was never the boss. He wasn't. It is not debatable.

No one ever said the Outfit was down to 2-3 crews. Again, just pulling crap out of thin air. Grand Ave crew still occupies their same routes & social clubs daily, just as they have for years. Again, not debatable.

This is the difference between you and I. I can back up what I say with evidence. You just talk out of your ass and then repeat. You say it's not debatable because you have no ground to debate anything.


The Chicago mob once had as many as seven street crews, but is down to two or three, Rice said.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-...onspiracy-trial

.....yaawwwnn...

You haven't backed up anything with any type of solid evidence. Just hearsay & rumours perpetuated by people like yourself: gangster groupies who base their "information" off of absolutely nothing whatsoever.

AGAIN, no one ever thought the grand Ave crew went defunct. This was something that was never, ever up for debate.

I apologize if I'm coming across as curt/short. I'm just not particularly adept at dealing with the mentally handicapped.

I see. You claim "nobody" said the Outfit was down to 2 or 3 crews, but when I provide you with a link that shows an FBI official said that very thing in 2011, you conveniently ignore it. And on top of that, you call me a gangster groupie. As people here will tell you, that's the last thing I am. If anything, it's you who's the gangster groupie here. Just one more Outfit fan boy who comes here, pretends to have the inside scoop, and tries to pass off his opinion and wishful thinking about the Chicago mob as fact. Sorry pal, you're late to the party. Others came, tried what you're doing now, and failed.

Do you bring anything to these forums besides babbling incoherently out of your butt?

You're a squirrely, pasty guy from Bumblefuck, Utah that is enthralled & obsessed with gangster culture. You scour over bogus fbi reports & ipsn articles like you're getting paid for it (hopefully you are). I'm sorry, but that is the absolute definition of a groupie.

Not once have I contributed my "opinion" on anything. No one ever thought that the Outfit was down to 2/3 crews. There have been four crews since the mid 90s, and that's that. It isn't something that is up for debate.

Give it up & stop taking this shit so seriously. You get your panties twisted up over absolutely nothing. You're wrong, deal with it.

On a side note, I found it amusing that someone asked your opinion on Jimmy I. Jim has never been a prominent figure in the press, and has always flown under the radar, so how would you know anything about him/his position? LOL

A groupie (or fan boy) is someone who roots for a particular mob family or the mob in general. You're obviously an Outfit fan boy. And I'll take FBI reports, which provide real information, than bullshit from internet phonies like you any day. It's not about "taking shit seriously." It's about you not passing off your opinions as fact or acting like you speak for everybody. And now, in addition to just repeating your BS, you're misrepresenting what I said. Go back and read what I said about Inendino - that I wasn't aware of much about him other than what's been in the press in recent years. Of course, you have yet to explain how you're in a position to know about him, or Sarno, or be a better source than the feds. Also, why are you saying "nobody" ever said the Outfit was down to 2 or 3 crews? I just gave you a link that showed the FBI said that in 2011. You can keep saying "you're wrong" all you want but I have evidence to back up what I say. You've got nothing. Your credibility on this forum is already dead.

Ivy is not a gangster Groupie at all. He doesn't care or root for a home team. He's only presenting the facts given to him by the Feds over the last 10 years.
I think someone could make a better argument against some of the Feds statements from 35 years ago as being off or being exaggerated or really not accurate or misleading. I would be the first guy to say it.
However, within the last 6 to 8 years, the Feds are a lot more accurate than 30 to 35 years ago. They are not stupid.
Ivy doesn't know you, so, if he has to choose between what the Feds have told him within the last 6 years or some unknown blogger, he will always take the Feds word. I do understand him well.
As far as our fat ass friend Sarno, Ivy is correct in saying that Sarno, according to the Feds who are pretty fucking good in 2013, was the 'Acting Boss' of Cicero making him acting Boss of the Street Racket Outfit.
This is all he's saying. It doesn't mean Sarno was the most powerful Outfit guy in Cicero. However, he was probably in the top 3. That's how far down the Outfit has gone from the glory years. They are operating at about 1/4 speed, not even 1/2 speed.
Grand Ave is basically an extension of Elmwood Park. All of the top men in Elmwood Park were born and raised on Grand Ave.
Joey Lombardo and Johnny DiFronzo were very close. Joey Andriacchi is Lombardo's cousin through marriage. There really aren't many active made guys in Grand Ave anymore. I seriously doubt Albie Vena is really doing anything concerning Bookmaking, Poker Machines or Loan Sharking. Show me something.
Are there really very many Poker machines around Grand Ave? Is there really any large scale Bookmaking Franchise being run by Grand ave with a bunch of Street Agents having their players call in the action to an office in the Grand Ave area?
If the Elmwood Park Crew retreated several years ago, don't you think their first cousins on the North Side, the Grand Ave Crew, retreated with them? Don't you think Joey Lombardo, DiFronzo's closest ally before he went to prison, retreated with him? Why would ONLY DiFronzo retreat and not Lombardo?
The Grand Ave Crew, as a once powerful business organization, is relatively small in number with remaining made men and retreated years ago with DiFronzo.
Nobody said the Grand Ave is Crew is defunct, they are just smaller than Elmwood Park and they retreated years ago under Lombardo. When Lombardo got out of prison years ago, the deal was that they would let him out but he could not be seen or associate with any known Outfit members. he could get away with seeing Andriacchi, because he could argue that it was his cousin and they were Family.

Honestly Ivy and I have worked out the approximate 25 made men number ad nauseum. It fits every available piece of reliable evidence. I can repost all the links tomorrow but there is not much to debate about.

And that's another key point. I never said for sure that Grand Avenue is no more. But, if the Outfit is down to 2 or 3 crews, it certainly seems to be the odd one out. Whether that means it's few remaining members are with Elmwood Park or whatever, I don't know.

Bottom line, we know the FBI said in 2007 that the Outfit was being run in "northern and southern sections." And in 2011 it said the Outfit was down to "two or three crews." Other than Elmwood Park being in the northern section, and 26th Street and Cicero being in the southern section, how it all lines up is anyone's guess. I wouldn't be surprised if, eventually, 26th Street and Cicero merge into a single crew.

Huron is on a vacation from the boards. Two days and already flaming someone....