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Vito: More respected than Michael? #720858
06/17/13 09:56 PM
06/17/13 09:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
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Mr_Willie_Cicci Offline OP
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Maybe it was just a matter of traditions changing, but notice how in GFI that nobody refers to Vito by his first name; nobody calls him less than Don Corleone or Godfather, not even his contemporaries in the other Families. Whereas in Part II, plenty of people--Frankie, Roth, etc--all at different points call Michael by his given name and not by Don Corleone. Is it that he was less respected, or had traditions simply changed?

Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #720991
06/18/13 02:54 PM
06/18/13 02:54 PM
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Trilogy Offline
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Trilogy  Offline
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I think its the tradition that changed. Also, Michael wasn't a humble man like Vito. Michael didn't care for his community or did favors for his people.

He was simply..a ruthless business man.

Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: Trilogy] #721016
06/18/13 05:18 PM
06/18/13 05:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Original geschrieben von: Trilogy
Michael didn't care for his community or did favors for his people.


Tempi cambi. Times change. Vito acted under completely different circumstances. Vito lived in an Italian community where people knew each other and had personal contact. This may have changed already when he moved to Long Island, although the old friendships and relationships continued. (I don't think that Enzo and Bonasera were from Long Island.) Anyway, in the early 20th century personal neighborhood relations meant a lot in New York.
Now, Michael lived in Nevada. There practically was no Italian neighborhood. In fact, there was no neighborhood at all.
This doesn't mean he doesn't do favors. For example, he donates for the local university.

Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: Danito] #721030
06/18/13 05:39 PM
06/18/13 05:39 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Michael posed as an important member of the "legitimate" business world. It would have been awkward for him to be called "Don Corleone," even by those around him.


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E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
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Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #721046
06/18/13 07:42 PM
06/18/13 07:42 PM
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Lou_Para Offline
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Maybe everyone thought of Mike as just the successor to Vito,and not Don material. He came up as sort of a mascot to the Family until the Solozzo murder. His ruthlessness and attitude after that set him apart from Vito in the eyes of the others. He was
obeyed,but not respected. In the one scene where he is called Don
Corleone,it's a drunken Pentangeli,and it comes off as condescending.

Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: Lou_Para] #721121
06/19/13 03:59 AM
06/19/13 03:59 AM
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Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Original geschrieben von: Lou_Para
Maybe everyone thought of Mike as just the successor to Vito,and not Don material. He came up as sort of a mascot to the Family until the Solozzo murder. His ruthlessness and attitude after that set him apart from Vito in the eyes of the others. He was
obeyed,but not respected. In the one scene where he is called Don
Corleone,it's a drunken Pentangeli,and it comes off as condescending.

Clemenza kisses his hand and calls him Don Corleone. After the well organised massacre and the killing of Tessio and Carlo, he was respected by the others.

Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: Danito] #721145
06/19/13 12:31 PM
06/19/13 12:31 PM
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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good points by all, and I think the difference between the way people felt about Michael and Vito was very different because they lived in different times and were very diffferent men.

Vito lived in an earlier era. Being a "Godfather" carried religious and social significance that was on the decline in Michael's time. The idea of respect and honor probably was as important as fear.
One reason I think Vito so easily reolaced Fannucci was that Fanucci ruled by fear only, and Vito did it with compassion, honor and the limited and justifiable use of force.

Michael lived in a different era. America had become more secular, and as a second generation Italian he did not hold to the traditions as much as Vito. Sure, he gave lip service to them, but he really didnt believe in them. His marriage to Kay was one of convenience, not love, and his becoming Godfather to Carlo's baby was an act that was a part of a bigger plan which included killling Carlo the same day. Michael ruled by fear, and he was ruled by his own paranoia.

An example of the contrast can be seen in the way Vito and Michael treated Johnny Fontaine. Vito saw Johnny as an errant Godson. When his services were needed to get him out of the bandleader contract or into the movie, he gladly provided them, and while Johnny knew he owed the Corleones, Vito never really pressed him. When Johnny showed up at the wedding Vito told him to spent time with his family (and dump the woman he took from Woltz) and to get some rest and to eat becaue he looked terrible. When Michaell met up with Johnny in Vegas, he got rid of the women in the room not because he cared that Johnny was not a family man, but because he had business to do, namely to get Johnny to repay the debt to the Corleones bu agreeing to play Vegas so many times a year and to ersuade his Hollywood friends to do likewise. Of course at that point vito was still alive so the "favor" Johnny did was offset by lucrative contracts to perform, and thus only enhanced him in Showbiz. In III Johnny is no longer of any use to Michael, and when he performs at the party Michael mocks him by telling him he is leaving the live performance to go listen to Tony Bennett records. Vito would have never acted like that.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #721154
06/19/13 01:02 PM
06/19/13 01:02 PM
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olivant Offline
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DT, I think you hit the nail on the head. Respect or lack thereof shown to Vito and Michael was a function of the eras in which they reigned. As the novel states, Vito made sure that his actions were viewed as personal by those who received their benefits. Micahel made no such effort.


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Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: olivant] #721175
06/19/13 02:32 PM
06/19/13 02:32 PM
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
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Micahel made no such effort. [/quote]

I mostly agree with you, but Michael could be a really nasty S.O.B. and get very personal even when he was doing "business." Shutting the door in Kay's face, insulting Tom for the sport of it, and perhaps the dumbest mistake...going after Moe Green personally for slapping Fredo around. In that instance Moe got the better of him by telling him about the cocktail waitresses and that he has a "busines to run." In that case Michael had to back off and then just tell Moe to think about a price.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Vito: More respected than Michael? [Re: dontomasso] #721385
06/20/13 11:05 AM
06/20/13 11:05 AM
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Posts: 61
A little bit of everywhere
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Karl9905 Offline
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A little bit of everywhere
Times had changed so much between Vito and Michael.

The area Vito started from and worked almost his whole life were from a time where people knew each other, they lived worked and shopped within a few miles. Don Vito could pull strings in his community. He ran it like a king.

By Michaels time the stage had changed, people had more and moved from the old places. Old friends had moved up and out and new people took their places in the old areas. Times had changes and Michael was no longer big in the old community his father once ran and was so well known for.


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