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Why didn't Junior back Richie? #718865
06/04/13 09:33 PM
06/04/13 09:33 PM
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Mr_Willie_Cicci Offline OP
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After Larry Barese backs out of Richie's idea to whack Tony, why didn't Junior have someone go and assure Larry that Richie had his support? Or better yet, let Richie kill Tony, then have Richie whacked and re-establish control using one of his supporters (for example Patsy Parisi) as Acting Boss?

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #718873
06/04/13 09:47 PM
06/04/13 09:47 PM
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Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mr_Willie_Cicci
After Larry Barese backs out of Richie's idea to whack Tony, why didn't Junior have someone go and assure Larry that Richie had his support? Or better yet, let Richie kill Tony, then have Richie whacked and re-establish control using one of his supporters (for example Patsy Parisi) as Acting Boss?



Junior answers your question. He says Richie couldn't sell it, he's not respected he flat out says he's better off with Tony. I remember that scene well because of Bobbys hilarious respone to the question what are you looking at? ''i'm in awe of you'' lol

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #718876
06/04/13 09:50 PM
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I dont think he had the stomache, the muscle or time for an all out war. He was under house arrest, the feds were "so far (his) ass he could taste brill cream", alot of his guys were with Tony , and those who werent didn't stack up to Tony's support level. Furthermore, he wasn't doing well health wise. He was just over it I think at that point. He tried, he lost, he rolled over and died.


Frank Costello: Fucking rats. It's wearing me thin. Mr. French: Francis, it's a nation of fucking rats.
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: vinnietoothpicks26] #719297
06/07/13 01:18 PM
06/07/13 01:18 PM
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BarrettM Offline
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This was my favorite scene in the series. When Junior realized he was better off with Tony, who he at times flat out hated. It's like any other mafia affair. If Richie didn't have the support of the captains, how could he be a boss?

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #719348
06/07/13 10:25 PM
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waynethegame Offline
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Simply put, because if he had backed Richie he wouldn't have any Family to be the Boss of. Everyone else regarded Richie as a punk, pretty much, because while he was a made guy and did his time in prison he had no respect for what had changed and kept trying to ride Jackie's legacy as the reason why he should be given everything on a silver plate.

The fact he couldn't get any support just sealed the deal. Junior made the smart, and correct, move: Tony had respect, people liked him for the most part. He could keep things running. If he had backed Richie, not only would there have been a war but there wouldn't have been anything left after the smoke cleared.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Camarel] #719402
06/08/13 05:14 PM
06/08/13 05:14 PM
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DE NIRO Offline
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Originally Posted By: Camarel
Originally Posted By: Mr_Willie_Cicci
After Larry Barese backs out of Richie's idea to whack Tony, why didn't Junior have someone go and assure Larry that Richie had his support? Or better yet, let Richie kill Tony, then have Richie whacked and re-establish control using one of his supporters (for example Patsy Parisi) as Acting Boss?



Junior answers your question. He says Richie couldn't sell it, he's not respected he flat out says he's better off with Tony. I remember that scene well because of Bobbys hilarious respone to the question what are you looking at? ''i'm in awe of you'' lol


One of the best scenes in the whole series..


The Mafia Is Not Primarily An Organisation Of Murderers.
First And Foremost,The Mafia Is Made Up Of Thieves.
It Is Driven By Greed And Controlled By Fear.

Between The Law And The Mafia, The Law Is Not The Most To Be Feared

"What if the Mafia were not an organization but a widespread Sicilian attitude of hostility towards the law?"

"Make Love Not War" John Lennon
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #720138
06/12/13 07:24 PM
06/12/13 07:24 PM
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KingofNewYork Offline
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Why go through all the trouble of propping a guy up when he knew Tony would take care of him to the end.

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Camarel] #722608
06/26/13 10:05 PM
06/26/13 10:05 PM
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cookcounty Offline
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Originally Posted By: Camarel
Originally Posted By: Mr_Willie_Cicci
After Larry Barese backs out of Richie's idea to whack Tony, why didn't Junior have someone go and assure Larry that Richie had his support? Or better yet, let Richie kill Tony, then have Richie whacked and re-establish control using one of his supporters (for example Patsy Parisi) as Acting Boss?



Junior answers your question. He says Richie couldn't sell it, he's not respected he flat out says he's better off with Tony. I remember that scene well because of Bobbys hilarious respone to the question what are you looking at? ''i'm in awe of you'' lol



actually he called Richie a fucking loser

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #722934
06/28/13 11:30 AM
06/28/13 11:30 AM
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goombah Offline
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Another point to consider is that Junior had previously tried to whack Tony in the first season, with Livia's blessing. With one failed attempt, Junior was wise enough to know that a second failed attempt would mean Junior's own death.

Plus I think Junior saw Richie's flaws and weighed them against Tony's flaws. Junior correctly assessed that Richie's flaws were greater and that Tony was a more profitable partner.

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: cookcounty] #722973
06/28/13 02:29 PM
06/28/13 02:29 PM
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Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Originally Posted By: cookcounty
Originally Posted By: Camarel
Originally Posted By: Mr_Willie_Cicci
After Larry Barese backs out of Richie's idea to whack Tony, why didn't Junior have someone go and assure Larry that Richie had his support? Or better yet, let Richie kill Tony, then have Richie whacked and re-establish control using one of his supporters (for example Patsy Parisi) as Acting Boss?



Junior answers your question. He says Richie couldn't sell it, he's not respected he flat out says he's better off with Tony. I remember that scene well because of Bobbys hilarious respone to the question what are you looking at? ''i'm in awe of you'' lol



actually he called Richie a fucking loser


Your right, he more or less says that under his breath though.

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #773069
04/14/14 11:12 PM
04/14/14 11:12 PM
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That is one of the funniest and epic scene in the series for me. Junior has no choice but to back up Tony instead, as Richie did not have anything going in his favor.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #773114
04/15/14 08:11 AM
04/15/14 08:11 AM
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My impression was that Richie was trying to back Junior, rather than the other way around. As in, he was looking to make Junior boss, not himself.

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #773156
04/15/14 11:59 AM
04/15/14 11:59 AM
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afriendofours Offline
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Richie didn't have the support or the respect by this point, they realized they were better of with Tony in the end, so did Junior.

Last edited by afriendofours; 04/15/14 12:01 PM.
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: slumpy] #773161
04/15/14 12:14 PM
04/15/14 12:14 PM
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waynethegame Offline
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Originally Posted By: slumpy
My impression was that Richie was trying to back Junior, rather than the other way around. As in, he was looking to make Junior boss, not himself.


He was looking to whack Tony and (presumably) take his place as Underboss/Street Boss. Junior was already boss (although Tony had the real power). He wanted Junior to back *him* with letting him hit Tony, and the entire issue came from the fact that nobody would have respected Richie enough to accept him, and it would have basically resulted in a civil war.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #773179
04/15/14 02:50 PM
04/15/14 02:50 PM
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Slumpy, Richie wanted Juniors go ahead with killing Tony, but needed the backing of at least the Barese crew for Junior to give the OK. When Richie could not get the Barese crew on board, Junior had no choice but to side with his nephew and keep Tony alive. Chianses played the emotion of Junior very well in the doctors office when he realized he is better off with Tony as BerrettM had said, but Richie was not trying to become the boss, he just wanted to kill Tony.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #782271
06/05/14 07:14 PM
06/05/14 07:14 PM
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There were only two options that Junior had. (1) Use Richie to whack Tony even though nobody else in the family supported this move, and just hope it turns out alright in the end (hope the captains decide to keep Junior as boss - when those captains may in fact decide to whack Junior for whacking Tony as this would have been an unjustified murder).
(2) Rat on Richie to Tony (This allows Tony to begin trusting Junior again. And, Tony immediately increases the amount of money Junior makes every week so he sees immediate benefits.)

He decided...it was a safer play to go with #2.

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #782438
06/06/14 05:09 PM
06/06/14 05:09 PM
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Junior's plot to let Richie take over puts me in mind of Paul Castellano in several ways.

1)Junior planned to let Richie become Boss,while Junior could still be the real Boss,sit back,stay out of the spotlight,and collect money. Just like Castellano holing up at his White House.The fact that he thought that any of the Capos would back Aprile shows how out of it he was.

2)Junior was so out of touch with the street that he thought the guys would fall in line out of fear of Richie,just like Big Paulie naming Billoti as his Underboss. He had no idea that the Capos considered him a lugheaded scumbag.

Just like Paul underestimated Gotti,Junior underestimated Paulie and Silvio.Before Janice killed him,Sil had already advised Tony to kill Richie.

If by some chance Richie was able to get rid of Tony,the next move would be Paulie Walnuts putting Richie and Junior to sleep.

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #782485
06/07/14 03:05 AM
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Without the Barese crew, Junior didn't have the muscle or support to do anything. Even if Richie was able to pop Tony, things would most likely get fucked up and there would be a civil war in the family. I can't imagine Paulie, Chris or Silvio falling back in line and taking orders from Richie or Junior.


-I shot him a coupla' times.
-What's a couple?
-Hmm, more than a couple... Really I don't know the exact amount, maybe I shot him 10 times, 12 times?
-Maybe fifteen?
-Hmm, it could've been fifteen...

-Anthony "Gaspipe" Casso
Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #782642
06/07/14 09:54 PM
06/07/14 09:54 PM
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Richie simply wasn't respected or liked by any of the Capos or Soldiers in the family. Only idiots seemed to show allegiance to Richie, (Jackie Jr., Dino, Sean Gismonte, and Matthew).

He was a loose cannon and making Beansie (a well-respected and well-liked store front) into a paraplegic didn't really help matters either.

Re: Why didn't Junior back Richie? [Re: NinoBrown] #782657
06/08/14 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted By: NinoBrown
Richie simply wasn't respected or liked by any of the Capos or Soldiers in the family. Only idiots seemed to show allegiance to Richie, (Jackie Jr., Dino, Sean Gismonte, and Matthew).

He was a loose cannon and making Beansie (a well-respected and well-liked store front) into a paraplegic didn't really help matters either.


Precisely. Junior was a crafty old bastard, he knew better than to back somebody like Richie that nobody respected. Imagine what would have happened if he did back Richie:

Richie whacks Tony, and then what? Was he planning on magically stepping in to become Street Boss? Paulie and Silvio are still around (and Pussy too but he's a rat), so Richie is highly likely to get whacked himself in short order or maybe even get caught for the murder if Pussy let the FBI know to look into it (not that I think he would, since he'd likely want to whack Richie, but still it'd be an option). It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Richie wasn't smart enough to plan this on his own so had to have somebody backing him, and the obvious person would be Junior. So Junior has just started a civil war with what little he has (if he even has anything besides Bobby) versus Paulie/Silvio and the remaining Soprano crew. Barese is a pussy so would likely back the Soprano crew too. So Junior has nothing and is likely whacked and the empire crumbles, either being reformed under Silvio or Paulie or getting swept up into New York (and, with Tony dead, it's debatable if Pussy would have been found out as a rat). Honestly, interesting things could have come from such a scenario, but it wouldn't be the Sopranos that we all know and love smile

So yeah... there's no way he could have backed Richie. It would have been disastrous for everybody. Richie might have been a stone cold gangster but demanded respect for things from 15 years ago and just stepped on everybody's toes while tossing around his brother's name as justification, ironically in a similar way to his nephew Jackie Jr. (must run in the family or something).

Last edited by waynethegame; 06/08/14 04:07 AM.

Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi

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