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Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 #717364
05/26/13 09:02 PM
05/26/13 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 691
G
GaryMartin Offline OP
Underboss
GaryMartin  Offline OP
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Underboss
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Posts: 691
Top leaders of the Chicago Outfit meet following the death of Paul Ricca to announce organizational structure.

I found an old FBI file I saved that indicates a Criminal - Top Echelon (CTE) informant has been providing information about Outfit business. Listed below is the link. Take a look and share your opinion about the identity of the RAT.

Just like Skinny said, no right or wrong answers.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=70996&relPageId=3

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717368
05/26/13 09:16 PM
05/26/13 09:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,809
Scotland
Camarel Offline
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Camarel  Offline
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Scotland
Originally Posted By: GaryMartin
Top leaders of the Chicago Outfit meet following the death of Paul Ricca to announce organizational structure.

I found an old FBI file I saved that indicates a Criminal - Top Echelon (CTE) informant has been providing information about Outfit business. Listed below is the link. Take a look and share your opinion about the identity of the RAT.

Just like Skinny said, no right or wrong answers.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=70996&relPageId=3


Thanks for this Maryferrell is a great website but i usually don't have the time to comb through it.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: Camarel] #717377
05/26/13 11:38 PM
05/26/13 11:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 198
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PP Offline
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Made Member
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Great stuff.

Thanks for posting.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717409
05/27/13 11:43 AM
05/27/13 11:43 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
T
thecooler Offline
Wiseguy
thecooler  Offline
T
Wiseguy
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
I believe the informant is Ralph Pierce.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717416
05/27/13 12:38 PM
05/27/13 12:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 691
G
GaryMartin Offline OP
Underboss
GaryMartin  Offline OP
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Underboss
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Posts: 691
The cooler - I've seen Pierce's name in several articles but I know nothing about him. But I will by tomorrow.

Thanks for the feedback.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717417
05/27/13 12:42 PM
05/27/13 12:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
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Faithful1  Offline
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Richard Cain would be the other choice.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717423
05/27/13 01:29 PM
05/27/13 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 691
G
GaryMartin Offline OP
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GaryMartin  Offline OP
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Underboss
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Faithful1 - Good call ! Considering Cain played "both sides," he surely would be a top suspect. Been reading about Ralph Pierce and he, too, looks suspicious.

Thanks

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717426
05/27/13 02:17 PM
05/27/13 02:17 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
T
thecooler Offline
Wiseguy
thecooler  Offline
T
Wiseguy
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
I tend to think the informant is Pierce.

On page "D" of the report, the informant refers to a 1956 meeting when Giancana was made boss of the Outfit. The informant doesn't reveal that he was at the meeting but he supplies such precise details-the location of the meeting, the agenda, the attendees, etc, that it seems to me that he was probably one of the guys at the meeting. (Someone could have learned the information secondhand but it would be hard to keep the details straight fifteen years later).

As for suspects, if we eliminate the dead mobsters and assume the informant isn't Accardo, Giancana or Alex, it leaves Kruse, Vogel or Pierce.

Furthermore, the same informant knows confidential details about Alex's current schedule that only one of his top subordinates-Kruse, Vogel or Pierce, was likely to know.

Combined with clues found in other FBI documents, I tend to go with Pierce as the source.

I wrote more about Pierce here.

http://informer-journal.blogspot.ca/2011/07/roemers-men-in-outfit.html

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717430
05/27/13 02:58 PM
05/27/13 02:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 691
G
GaryMartin Offline OP
Underboss
GaryMartin  Offline OP
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Underboss
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Posts: 691
I've never seen this site, but it looks GREAT ! And you could be absolutely correct about Pierce.

All members should take a look at thecooler's site.

Thanks so much for sharing.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717432
05/27/13 03:11 PM
05/27/13 03:11 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
T
thecooler Offline
Wiseguy
thecooler  Offline
T
Wiseguy
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 29
Definitely not my site! Credit goes to Tom Hunt. Like many here already know, he edits the Informer.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: thecooler] #717434
05/27/13 03:21 PM
05/27/13 03:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 691
G
GaryMartin Offline OP
Underboss
GaryMartin  Offline OP
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Underboss
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Posts: 691
Oops! My mistake. Sorry.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717454
05/27/13 07:47 PM
05/27/13 07:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
Faithful1 Offline
Underboss
Faithful1  Offline
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Posts: 1,841
OC, CA
I tend to go with Ed the Cooler on this one. When it comes to discovering confidential informants he's the best.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717467
05/27/13 10:06 PM
05/27/13 10:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
C
cookcounty Offline
Underboss
cookcounty  Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,213
Chicago had area bosses way back in 1972.......big shock

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717505
05/28/13 10:44 AM
05/28/13 10:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 869
C
ChiTown Offline
WestTown
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Underboss
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Posts: 869
Very cool nice post.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #717525
05/28/13 01:58 PM
05/28/13 01:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,350
A
azguy Offline
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azguy  Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,350
I love these old documents...


"In onore della Famiglia la Famiglia e' aperta"
Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #786587
06/30/14 11:29 AM
06/30/14 11:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 78
JJB Offline
Button
JJB  Offline
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Posts: 78
That document got me to researching Sidney Korshak a bit more, and I found an interesting Vanity Fair piece on him. It's here.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #786624
06/30/14 05:08 PM
06/30/14 05:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
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jonnynonos Offline
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
There's a book on Cain called The Tangled Web. I think it was written by his brother. I own it but only flipped through it.

Re: Chicago Outfit Top Echelon Meeting 1972 [Re: GaryMartin] #786651
06/30/14 08:12 PM
06/30/14 08:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,727
Larry's Bar
Giacomo_Vacari Offline
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Giacomo_Vacari  Offline
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Larry's Bar
The informant is most likely Ralph Pierce as Richard Cain was on thin ice at the start of the 70's with the Outfit, and most likely would not have been invited to attend that meeting, so he would not have been able to give out precise details, only second hand information. Pierce was in good standing with the Outfits top echelon.


"I have this Nightmare. I'm on 5th avenue watching the St. Patrick's Day parade and I have a coronary and nine thousand cops march happily over my body." Chief Sidney Green

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