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Giulio Andreotti RIP #714216
05/06/13 08:20 AM
05/06/13 08:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
J
Jules_X Offline OP
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
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è morto il divo, il papa nero - seven time italian pm Guilio Andreotti dies at 94 ...

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Jules_X] #714217
05/06/13 08:54 AM
05/06/13 08:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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ROME —
Former Italian prime minister Giulio Andreotti, who died on Monday at the age of 94, was a behind-the-scenes power broker of Italian post-war political life, accused of shadowy links with the mafia and the Vatican.

A government minister for over three decades, Andreotti was involved through all the upheavals that rocked Italy from World War II until his retirement from mainstream political life in 1992, after which he stayed on as senator-for-life.
Born in Rome on January 14, 1919, he was elected to parliament in 1946 and became a junior minister — at the start of a lengthy career.

He was known for his love of political intrigue and close ties with the Vatican, beginning his career with the pro-Catholic Christian Democratic party before going on to be prime minister seven times and a minister 21 times.
With his stooped figure and bespectacled, hangdog expression, Andreotti was a controversial figure who was inevitably associated with a period of extremist political militancy that rocked Italy in the 1970s and 1980s.

At various points in his career he was nicknamed “The Untouchable”, “The Black Pope” and “The Divo” in an award-winning 2008 film on his life.
Andreotti was once convicted to 24 years in prison for ordering the murder of an investigative journalist in 1979 after a high-profile trial, but an appeals court cleared him in 2003 and he served no time in prison.
“I’m being blamed for everything, except for the Punic Wars because I was too young then,” the caustic senator, who became famous for his put-downs, once said in an ironic reference to the battles between ancient Rome and Carthage.
He was also blamed for his intransigence when his political rival Aldo Moro, a former prime minister, was kidnapped by the Red Brigades in 1978.

As prime minister, Andreotti refused to negotiate and Moro was found dead in the boot of a car parked on a Rome back street after two months in captivity.
Andreotti habitually attended mass every morning even when in office and helped shape the Christian Democratic party founded by Alcide de Gasperi.
“While Alcide spoke to God, Andreotti spoke to the clergy,” who had the advantage of being able to vote, a famous Italian journalist once wrote of him.
Marco Tarchi, a professor of political science at the University of Florence, once said: “He knows all the corridors of powers and the underbelly of power and he does not hesitate to use any means necessary.”

A foreign minister under the Socialist Bettino Craxi in the early 1980s, he forged an opening to the Arab world and the Soviet bloc.
The United States never really trusted him despite his staunch anti-Communist credentials and, observers say, rightly so as Libya was tipped off by Italy about an imminent US bombardment in April 1986.
He was the butt of many jokes and was popularly dubbed “The Hunchback”.
A famous comedy sketch once represented Andreotti ringing a doorbell to hell and the devil opening the door and saying: “Daddy’s home!”

http://mafiatoday.com/general-breaking-news/giulio-andreotti-italys-ex-pm-surrounded-by-intrigue/

Last edited by carmela; 05/06/13 08:55 AM.

La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Jules_X] #714218
05/06/13 09:02 AM
05/06/13 09:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
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Jules_X Offline OP
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thx Carmela

for those interested in his story - there is an incredible movie about
andreotti called "Il divo" - for me personally the best italian movie I have ever seen, a real masterpiece - have to say that it's not an easy movie if you don't have some background info on italian politics & crime in the 70's and 80's

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Jules_X] #714224
05/06/13 10:04 AM
05/06/13 10:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,776
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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I surely won't cry for him. He was the symbol of the maximum power that could be reached by the mafia in Italy. When he was sentenced to 24 years, it was one of the happiest days of my life.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Jules_X] #714227
05/06/13 10:27 AM
05/06/13 10:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
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Jules_X Offline OP
Wiseguy
Jules_X  Offline OP
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Wiseguy
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sentenced .. yeah but he never spent a day in jail - if I am correct he was indicted 26 times & acquitted 26 times - yep alot skeletons in his closet ... that's for sure

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Dwalin2011] #714228
05/06/13 10:29 AM
05/06/13 10:29 AM
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Posts: 2,292
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
I surely won't cry for him. He was the symbol of the maximum power that could be reached by the mafia in Italy. When he was sentenced to 24 years, it was one of the happiest days of my life.


You need to get out more.


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: carmela] #714229
05/06/13 10:33 AM
05/06/13 10:33 AM
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Posts: 1,776
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
I surely won't cry for him. He was the symbol of the maximum power that could be reached by the mafia in Italy. When he was sentenced to 24 years, it was one of the happiest days of my life.


You need to get out more.


Why? I am surely not the only one who hated him. When he was convicted, I thought that at least some judges try to apply the dying principle (or better, the principle that was never applied) that "everybody should be equal in front of the law".


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Dwalin2011] #714230
05/06/13 10:36 AM
05/06/13 10:36 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,292
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: carmela
Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
I surely won't cry for him. He was the symbol of the maximum power that could be reached by the mafia in Italy. When he was sentenced to 24 years, it was one of the happiest days of my life.


You need to get out more.


Why? I am surely not the only one who hated him. When he was convicted, I thought that at least some judges try to apply the dying principle (or better, the principle that was never applied) that "everybody should be equal in front of the law".


I know you long enough and well enough to know your feelings on the mafia and them being brought to justice and all that, I just think saying it was one of the happiest days of your life when he got 24 years (although never served) is a bit odd.

Last edited by carmela; 05/06/13 10:37 AM.

La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: carmela] #714233
05/06/13 10:43 AM
05/06/13 10:43 AM
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Posts: 1,776
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela

I know you long enough and well enough to know your feelings on the mafia and them being brought to justice and all that, I just think saying it was one of the happiest days of your life when he got 24 years (although never served) is a bit odd.

Maybe you are right, it's just that to me he was more of a symbol than a person. I mean, it seems no other single mafioso in Italian history had the same degree of power (maybe Licio Gelli also, but he wasn't a Cosa Nostra member). Good people are dying, often violent deaths, and Andreotti continued to live and grasp for power at an age when he should have rather played with his great-great-grandchildren. Also, it's annoying that, when such criminal politicians die, many people express their condolences and wish them to rest in peace instead of just forgetting about them like about toxic waste that disappears into a dumping ground.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Dwalin2011] #714379
05/07/13 05:09 AM
05/07/13 05:09 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 116
johnnyboysala Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011

I mean, it seems no other single mafioso in Italian history had the same degree of power (maybe Licio Gelli also, but he wasn't a Cosa Nostra member)


Was Andreotti actually a MEMBER? I know he was thoroughly in collusion with the mafia, like Dell Utri and to an extent Berlusconi but he wasn't an actual member, was he?

Makes me wonder, what's the highest an actual mafioso has risen in front line politics? Obviously they've managed to infiltrate Italian politics to the highest level at various times, but what about actual mafioso politicians - and I mean outside the countless members on town/village councils in rural Sicily and Calabria.

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: johnnyboysala] #714384
05/07/13 07:37 AM
05/07/13 07:37 AM
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Posts: 1,776
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: johnnyboysala

Was Andreotti actually a MEMBER? I know he was thoroughly in collusion with the mafia, like Dell Utri and to an extent Berlusconi but he wasn't an actual member, was he?

Makes me wonder, what's the highest an actual mafioso has risen in front line politics? Obviously they've managed to infiltrate Italian politics to the highest level at various times, but what about actual mafioso politicians - and I mean outside the countless members on town/village councils in rural Sicily and Calabria.


That's an interesting question. I read about some mayors who were made members of the mafia and bosses of their own families, like Giuseppe Biondolillo from Cerda, but these were mostly small towns, almost villages. There was the mayor of Castelvetrano though, Antonino Vaccarino, who was the consigliere of Francesco Messina Denaro's family. He was surely made, if the informant Vincenzo Calcara was telling the truth: he said Vaccarino was the one presiding over the ceremony of him being made.
Also, there was the mayor of Palermo, Vito Ciancimino, a close ally of Toto' Riina, but nobody seems to know if he was ever made.

As for Andreotti, I doubt he was actually made, although some informant said he was. But they usually son't make non-Sicilians.

Last edited by Dwalin2011; 05/07/13 07:37 AM.

Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: carmela] #714387
05/07/13 07:40 AM
05/07/13 07:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 490
Latvia
ThePolakVet Offline
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Originally Posted By: carmela
accused of shadowy links with the Vatican.

lol


Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: ThePolakVet] #714388
05/07/13 07:44 AM
05/07/13 07:44 AM
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Posts: 1,776
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Dwalin2011  Offline
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Originally Posted By: ThePolakVet
Originally Posted By: carmela
accused of shadowy links with the Vatican.

lol

Why are you laughing?


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Dwalin2011] #714448
05/07/13 02:23 PM
05/07/13 02:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,604
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Toodoped Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dwalin2011
Originally Posted By: johnnyboysala

Was Andreotti actually a MEMBER? I know he was thoroughly in collusion with the mafia, like Dell Utri and to an extent Berlusconi but he wasn't an actual member, was he?

Makes me wonder, what's the highest an actual mafioso has risen in front line politics? Obviously they've managed to infiltrate Italian politics to the highest level at various times, but what about actual mafioso politicians - and I mean outside the countless members on town/village councils in rural Sicily and Calabria.


That's an interesting question. I read about some mayors who were made members of the mafia and bosses of their own families, like Giuseppe Biondolillo from Cerda, but these were mostly small towns, almost villages. There was the mayor of Castelvetrano though, Antonino Vaccarino, who was the consigliere of Francesco Messina Denaro's family. He was surely made, if the informant Vincenzo Calcara was telling the truth: he said Vaccarino was the one presiding over the ceremony of him being made.
Also, there was the mayor of Palermo, Vito Ciancimino, a close ally of Toto' Riina, but nobody seems to know if he was ever made.

As for Andreotti, I doubt he was actually made, although some informant said he was. But they usually son't make non-Sicilians.


If he was a made member and if Riina was his Godfather than that was the greatest success of the Beast...but i also highly doubt that he was a made member but you can never know the power of greed and its extent.Dont get me worng but i find it funny when some of yall say "they only make sicilians".Theres no honor....the end!


He who can never endure the bad will never see the good
Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Toodoped] #714455
05/07/13 02:58 PM
05/07/13 02:58 PM
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Dwalin2011 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Toodoped

If he was a made member and if Riina was his Godfather than that was the greatest success of the Beast

If somebody made him (which I doubt), it was surely not Riina. Andreotti was close with the "traditionalists" of the Cosa Nostra: Stefano Bontate, Gaetano Badalamenti, Vincenzo and Filippo Rimi. But with Riina he wasn't on very good terms. He might have negotiated with him or even covered up for him out of fear, but Riina doesn't have any diplomatic skills. He is just another Casso, even though more powerful.


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Jules_X] #714790
05/09/13 06:37 AM
05/09/13 06:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/PaqgMHPyzlk[/video]

There was a recurring joke about Andreotti, that when he died they would have removed the black box from his hump, so would solve many italian mysteries.

Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Jules_X] #714796
05/09/13 07:34 AM
05/09/13 07:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 7,237
naples,italy
furio_from_naples Offline
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naples,italy
This first 5 minutes video from the Opening of the movie Il Divo is a brilliant and definitive summary of Italian political history after WWII till the 90s.


Re: Giulio Andreotti RIP [Re: Jules_X] #714981
05/10/13 06:19 AM
05/10/13 06:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 22
J
Jules_X Offline OP
Wiseguy
Jules_X  Offline OP
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Wiseguy
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Riina didn't have any diplomatic skills, right but Provenzano definitely did - strong team while it lasted - Provenzano was pretty good with the christian democrats - He didn't support Riina to support the socialist party when DC weren't doing them any favours anymore - Bad move from Riina


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