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Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: ChiTown] #710788
04/15/13 06:36 PM
04/15/13 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted By: ChiTown
Don't think this was Accardo as much as Aiuppa. Santo wanted this guy clipped and when Giancana died, Jonny Roselli had no more friends left in Chicago. Aiuppa gave Santo the go-ahead.

But did Aiuppa ever do anything without asking Accardo first?


Willie Marfeo to Henry Tameleo:

1) "You people want a loaf of bread and you throw the crumbs back. Well, fuck you. I ain't closing down."

2) "Get out of here, old man. Go tell Raymond to go shit in his hat. We're not giving you anything."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: MobWriter] #710941
04/16/13 12:24 PM
04/16/13 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: MobWriter
I can't understand why you're so hung up on some rumour you heard that defies logic and the facts. You really think a trusted gangster would have survived and prospered in the Mob for 50 years as a homosexual, closet or othewise? Just because you "heard" it or read it on some blog doesn't make it so. I suggest you study the thousands of pages of FBI surveillance files on Rosselli, as I have, and then show me where he's living a secret gay life. Good luck with that.

As for why Rosselli was killed, it was because he was about to talk to Congress about the JFK assassination, and the Mafia co-conspirator he was going to talk about, Santo Trafficante, was the one who had him murdered. Johnny knew it was coming, knew it was Santo, and told his friends about it when he came out to LA to say goodbye (yes, I've talked to those friends in depth, and none of them are gay, BTW). Johnny accepted his fate and did nothing to avoid it. He had lived the later years of his life in pain from TB, Emphysema, and Arthritis, and he was ready to pack it in.

Rosselli's murder was OKed by Chicago, which was not a big deal to them, since Rosselli was out of the picture by then. Tony Accardo never liked him, and had always been jealous of Johnny, going back to the days when Capone took a liking to Rosselli (and not in a gay way, in case you're interested).

As for him being cut in half when he was killed, it wasn't to send a message about him being half a man. Where did you get that? He was supposed to disappear. They stuffed him in an oil drum and dumped him in Dumfoundling Bay so he'd never be found! They cut him in half because they couldn't fold him into the oil drum after rigor mortis had set in. They punched holes in the barrel so the gasses from the decomposing body could escape, and the oil drum would stay at the bottom, but they didn't punch enough holes. He wasn't supposed to be found.

Can't wait for your next bad joke.



Little story on Roselli and his JFK assassination involvement.

by William Tosh Plumlee

Beginning November 20, 1963, I was assigned to be a co-pilot on a top secret flight, which was attached to a Military Intelligence unit and supported by the CIA. Our mission, we were told, was to 'Abort' a pending attempt on the President's life which was to take place in Dallas. We were contracted as "cut-outs" a system used to shield a secret operation from public exposure. Our team was based out of South Florida. My pilot for this operation was Emanuel Rojas. We had flown together before. I was the co-pilot for this operation. The first leg of the flight would be from Lantana, Florida ( about five miles south of West Palm Beach) to Tampa Florida. The aircraft used for the first phase of this trip was a D-18 Twin Beach aircraft. We took-off before day break on November 21, 1963 expecting to arrive in Tampa about sunup. We were to pick up other personal at Tampa. One of these people was John Roselli, whom I knew.

I had known John Roselli before this flight. I had flown Roselli and others to places like Cuba, Bimini, Galveston Texas, Las Vegas and California. He was also known to me as"Colonel Rawlston" or just "the Colonel". We (Rojas and I) were to pick up 'the Colonel' at Tampa's Congress Inn that morning. We changed aircraft at Tampa to a waiting DC-3 that was registered to 'Atlantic Richfield', and continued our trip to New Orleans, where a couple of people, who I did not know, got off and a few others got on. The Colonel stayed on board the DC-3. We continued our trip leaving New Orleans and continuing to Houston International Airport where we spent the night at the Shamrock Hilton, not far from the airport. We parked the aircraft on the Trans Texas side of the airport not far from the Texas Air National Guard and their AT6 type aircraft.

The next morning, November 22,1963, about 4:30-5 a.m., our weather briefing was not favorable for a VFR flight into Dallas's Red Bird airport. We selected Garland as an alternate in case the weather had not improved by the time we arrived near Dallas air space. We did not file a flight plan nor intended to file IFR. This would have left a record of our flight with air traffic control. We continued to Garland,in northeast Dallas instead of Redbird Airport in Oak Cliff, a suburb of Dallas. We made this decision because of possible bad weather southwest of Dallas that had not cleared as yet.

We arrived in Garland near daybreak. There had been so many threats against the President's life that we didn't have a great sense of urgency about this particular one. While waiting out the bad weather in Garland, and about thirty minutes after landing three of the passengers were picked up by car, including Roselli. (There are three documented corroborations of my presence at Garland airport that morning). After the weather had cleared sufficiently for the plane to continue via VFR flight rules to Redbird Airport in Dallas, we left Garland for the ten minute flight to Red Bird. We landed at Redbird around 9:30 or 10:30 a.m., perhaps as late as 11 a.m. where everybody got off and went their own way.

It was my impression at that time that I was flying an abort team into Dallas, comprised of John Roselli, a couple of Cubans and some people that I surmised were connected with organized crime in New Orleans. The CIA's specific information about the assassination, which their field personnel had obtained from Texas informants and international sources, was past to Military Intel units attached to the Pentagon. Some of this information, I had been told, came from the interrogations of Two Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach, Florida.

The pre-mission briefing was held at Loxahatchee, Florida on the evening of November 20th, but since I was not "field operational" at that time, except as a ‘contract pilot', I was not directly addressed at the briefing, other than routing and weather reports pertaining to flying the team into position. There would be no formal flight plans filed and the routing would be conducted under VFR (Visual Flight Rules) I only began to learn the full scope of the operation from my pilot Rojas and a field operative friend of mine named Sergio. Most of the details of this operation were told to me only after we had become airborne. I would learn more operational details upon reaching Redbird Airport.

I learned that it had been discussed by the abort team where to go, how to abort, and what to look for. I had not at first paid much attention to any of these details as bits and pieces unfolded. I was told that the abort team, for whom I was only the pilot at that time, would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in the Plaza. Most of the team members felt that this was another false alarm, there had been many during the past few weeks. The detailed instructions to the team had come from Robert Bennett and Rex Beardsley, as well as another case office whose name I can not recall.

Although my specific assigned function was only a pilot. Upon arriving at Redbird Airport, Sergio asked me if I wanted to come along and see the President. I could also act as a spotter for him and his team, which, he said, were assigned to the south side of the plaza. I was told other members of the team would be patrolling the north side and the overpass. I understood we would be looking for a type of triangulation ambush. I gladly accepted Sergio's offer. It seemed like an adventure I didn't want to miss. We were driven from Red Bird Airport to a place not far from the Oak Cliff Country Club, then driven to Dealey Plaza, where we (Sergio and I) checked various areas and attempted to spot potential members of an attack team from the position on the South Knoll. The original information the team had received from sources in Texas and the CIA was an attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel, but for reasons unknown to them, I was told ,the routing of the motorcade had been changed at the last minute to Dealey Plaza.

While on the south knoll, Sergio and I were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters might be located, but everything was confused, the timing was off, team members were late getting into position. They were not where they were supposed to be and the limited radio contacts that we had with them were not working, or spotty at best. It was soon after our arrival that the motorcade arrived. When the shots rang out, I had the impression of 4 or 5 shots, with one being fired from behind and to my left on the South Knoll, near the underpass and south parking lot. While leaving via the south side of the underpass near the train tracks, Sergio and I smelled gunpowder. I never saw Roselli in Dealey Plaza that day.

We were picked up on the back side of the underpass, southwest side, by a person who had previously been at the Country Club. After driving away, and on the way back to Red Bird we stopped in the parking lot of Ed McLemore's Sportatorium, where Sergio changed out of the clothes he had muddied when he fell down the slippery west side of the railroad tracks. We stopped by the place in Oak Cliff, then returned to Redbird Airport. We waited for a few of the operatives who had been on our flight into Dallas to return. We waited as long as we could before departing without Roselli and some of the others. At approximately 2 o'clock in the afternoon, we took off from Red Bird without filing a flight plan. Our original flight out of Dallas called for us to fly to Shepard Air Force Base in Wichita Falls, Texas. But because of the assassination that routing was changed at the last minute by Rojas. We would head for Houston and back to south Florida.

On the plane, besides myself, were Rojas, Sergio, a person who I knew as Gator from the Loxahatchee camp, and two other individuals that I didn't know. Gator had identifying characteristics of an unusually large Adam's Apple and a missing finger, which had supposedly been bitten off at an alligator farm.

The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet. I interpreted their silence as dejection at the mission's failure to abort the assassination of the President. I believed that if these men had been the shooters or assassins themselves, they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why to this day I take issue with the idea, which I have been asked to speculate on many times, that the attack on the President was in behalf of the CIA, Mafia, or Military Intelligence, and I had unknowingly flown an attack team in which had assassinated the President.


Colin Sullivan: "What Freud said about the Irish is: We're the only people who are impervious to psychoanalysis."

Cincotti said: "They don't have the scruples that we have." Zannino agreed. "You know how I knew they weren't Italiano? When they bombed the fucking house. We don't do that."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Bennie_The_Ball] #710994
04/16/13 05:29 PM
04/16/13 05:29 PM
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Yes, Tosh Plumley has a very interesting story to tell. I have no doubt that Rosselli had foreknowledge of the assassination, and some level of involvement in the planning stages. What is most interesting about the Plumlee story is that they were on an abort mission, supposedly arranged by certain CIA officials. He claims they started when he picked up Rosselli in Tampa (Trafficante's domain), stopped in New Orleans (Marcello), and ended up in Dallas the morning of the assassination.

My biggest problem with the story is that Rosselli, who was supposedly picked up in the morning at a Tampa hotel, was seen the night before by FBI informants in Beverly Hills. He was dropping off Judy Campbell (JFK's former paramour, who Rosselli was responsible for), at his favorite Beverly Hills hotel, ostensibly to keep her isolated during the impending assassination furor.

Could he have made it across country in a few hours to be picked up in Tampa. Possible, but seems unlikely. However, Plumlee's claims about Rosselli do track with James Files' story that Rosselli had tried to stop the assassination when he got to Dallas, but was rebuffed by the team leader and forced to go along with the plan.

Supposedly, the FBI lost track of Rosselli right after he dropped off Judy, and there are no reports of his whereabouts between the 20th and 27th of November, when he was seen again at the hotel to tend to the grieving and drinking Judy Campbell. Are there secret FBI files that haven't been released about those mysterious days? Betcha there are!

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: ChiTown] #710995
04/16/13 05:36 PM
04/16/13 05:36 PM
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kuklinski killed him

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #711224
04/17/13 10:47 PM
04/17/13 10:47 PM
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Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: BarrettM] #711703
04/19/13 02:09 PM
04/19/13 02:09 PM
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Good stuff. Santo was a survivor, and a skillful liar!

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: BarrettM] #711739
04/19/13 05:18 PM
04/19/13 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: BarrettM


Mcadams is a CIA puppet and that's a fact


Colin Sullivan: "What Freud said about the Irish is: We're the only people who are impervious to psychoanalysis."

Cincotti said: "They don't have the scruples that we have." Zannino agreed. "You know how I knew they weren't Italiano? When they bombed the fucking house. We don't do that."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: BarrettM] #711819
04/20/13 11:49 AM
04/20/13 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: BarrettM
Tony do you really think Roselli was a rat? I can see it happening. He was an aggressive guy and St. Louis and Detroit had their own little thing going on that kept cutting Chicago out.


Barrett: Yes, I do think Roselli was a rat (see attached NY Times article). This article spells it all out pretty clearly, assuming the writer has accurate facts. I would love to know who the sources are. According to this article, Roselli was killed for ratting out St Louis and Detroit, and for talking to the Senate Committee.

St Louis and Detroit were working with Chicago in Vegas. No one was getting cut out to my knowledge.

Attached Files Rosselli Part 1.pngRosselli Part 2.png

Best way to catch the smart ones? Get an idiot working for them.
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: TonyG] #711833
04/20/13 01:08 PM
04/20/13 01:08 PM
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Secret location (WITSEC)
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Thanks for the articles, Tony.
Interesting enough, also Bill Bonanno (who was held in the same prison as Roselli) said that Roselli had shown signs of despair when he started to talk out loud about stuff he shouldn´t be talking about. Bill sensed that Roselli didn´t longer believe in the values of their world.


[Linked Image]
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: HairyKnuckles] #711877
04/20/13 05:46 PM
04/20/13 05:46 PM
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I don't agree with the characterization of Roselli in the second pic. But it's all still very informative and I definitely agree. He wasn't someone who could stand up to much pressure. What I disagree with is characterizing him as someone weak and non-powerful. In my opinion, Roselli is the scariest kind of gangster because of his international contacts. They can't be written off as something that was just a way to impress his boss because he had ties to the actor's unions, the Vegas casinos, extreme ties to the CIA, ties to Cuban rebels, and ties to the Guatemalan government. He was 'in the know' on so many things. Even if everyone in Chicago hated him he was still an extremely powerful guy who operated on the same level as some bosses.

Regarding St. Louis, Chicago, and Detroit. I know that under Aiuppa there was tension between Chicago and St. Louis, and St. Louis responded passive aggressively by becoming closer to Detroit instead. That being said I know you're a lot smarter about Midwest stuff than I am so let me know if I'm wrong.

And back to the Santo Trafficante testimony. The reason it was interesting was because he revealed so much. I suppose at that point he wasn't ratting on everyone but he was very chatty with the committee and answered everything that didn't incriminate him honestly. I suppose that was his plan.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: BarrettM] #711996
04/21/13 10:57 AM
04/21/13 10:57 AM
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Some thoughts on the last years of Johnny Rosselli:

Johnny maintained a close relationship with one of the probable CIA operatives involved in the JFK assassination, Bill Harvey, and probably had the same political leanings. Rosselli's story to Jack Anderson in 67 about a CIA hit team that was turned around by Castro and sent to kill JFK, was all part of the conspirators efforts to point the finger at Castro to instigate a US retaliatory invasion (that was why Oswald was instructed to pose as a representative of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee).

By the late sixties, Rosselli was in a lot of legal problems: he'd been implicated in the Friar's Club cheating scandal and was facing deportation, as the FBI had discovered that he wasn't born in the states, as Rosselli claimed. He eventually went to prison, and spent much of his time in Springfield Mo, in the feds medical facility.

When he got out in the early 70's, he was a shell of a man. Friends who spent time with him during that time told me that he was drinking heavily (something he never used to do), and was being a little too talkative when he did.

When Rosselli's statements to Anderson stirred up the firestorm that would eventually hobble the CIA, Johnny was called to testify to Congress. In that testimony, I found it very interesting that the only Mafia guy he implicated in the CIA/Mafia plots was Trafficante.

I can think of a couple of reasons why he might do that: First, Rosselli, who was committed to the effort to kill Castro, knew that Trafficante had more than likely taken sides with Fidel, and in return for being allowed to continue his narcotics operation in Cuba, Santo informed Castro about the numerous botched attempts on his life. Second, Rosselli, who was a sick old man by this time, was in constant pain,and was ready to pack it in. He didn't want to die in bed, struggling to breath. He knew that implicating Trafficante would be punishable by death, and he knew Santo wouldn't hesitate, especially because Johnny was preparing to testify at the upcoming hearings looking at the JFK assassination.

Johnny was skilled in evasive testimony, as most of the mob survivors of that day had to be. He knew what he was saying, and he knew the implications.

I would be very careful about taking Bill Bonnano at face value when it comes to Rosselli. There were long-standing problems between the Bonnanos and Rosselli, dating back to the time when Joe came to Rosselli, looking for help in making a move in LA, against Commission guidelines. Rosselli was known for being a "Commission" guy who was close to Frank Costello, and I believe Meyer Lansky, and Johnny told Frank about Bonnano's overtures. When the Bonnanos became ostracized, I'm sure some of the blame fell on Rosselli. So, when Bill claims that he saw and talked to Rosselli in prison in the early 70's, and Johnny supposedly told him that he'd been on of the JFK shooters, firing from the storm drains, I'd keep a salt shaker handy.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #712014
04/21/13 03:44 PM
04/21/13 03:44 PM
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Barrett - I agree with your characterization of Rosselli. Johnny was very well connected and powerful. I have never understood his position on the west coast other than the Outfit's man out there. I sense that he had much more power than the LA or SF / SJ family bosses.

There was tension between St Louis and Chicago toward the end of Giordano's life. He and Auippa did not see eye to eye, mostly because Giordano was pissed that Rosselli gave him up and Auippa allowed Wortman to move into some of the St Louis action in the unions and vending / gambling.

Detroit and St Louis were always tight - there were family relations between the 2 cities, and many of the early Detroit guys moved there from St Louis (Licavolli, Tocco, Gianolla and Vitale are last names you will find in both cities).

Last edited by TonyG; 04/22/13 12:44 PM.

Best way to catch the smart ones? Get an idiot working for them.
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: TonyG] #712082
04/22/13 10:27 AM
04/22/13 10:27 AM
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You're right: Rosselli had huge connections, going back to his early days in New York and Chicago. When he came to LA in '24, he was essentially a free agent, but a known friend to Capone. He worked for Tony "The Hat" Cornero early on in his bootlegging operations, and later for Jack Dragna, who ran the weak LA Mafia. Rosselli rose quickly, and became the smooth-talking gambler/wheeler-dealer that partied with many of the Hollywood stars and movie moguls. It was during this time that he befriended Joe Kennedy, who he would remain close to (in a very careful fashion) until Joe's stroke in Dec. '61 (a very critical moment in our nation's history, when Joe's Machiavelian maneuvers suddenly spun out of control).

Rosselli became known for his ability to show how everyone could win, without violence. He smoothed the transition of Ben Siegel into the LA mob scene, including keeping the feisty ex-boxer, Mickey Cohen, from upsetting the apple cart. Guys in NY like Frank Costello and Meyer Lansky got good reports on Johnny from Ben, and his stature rose.

Rosselli's involvement in the big IATSE case gave him national exposure in the '30s and early '40s with the NY mob and his old friends in Chicago. And, he became acknowledged as a "stand up guy" for keeping quiet when he and several of the Chicago bosses, including Rosselli's close friend and mentor, Paul Ricca, were convicted in the labor racketeering case.

When Rosselli got out, he returned to LA, and continued to bolster his power base, despite the fact that we wasn't a boss. The LA Mob was becoming an embarrassment, and when Rosselli was passed over after Dragna's death, he was happy to get out of LA. He went to Havana and worked at the San Souci (Trafficante's place), but was known to be close to Meyer Lansky, and reportedly became an intermediary between Lansky and Batista.

Everything I've read indicates that all went well for Rosselli in Havana, and his stature rose. That was when he was tapped to take over as the "Man" without a crew in Vegas. He was there because he was trusted to be a fair arbiter of the various mob interests in the open city. His first project was to demonstrate that everyone, working together, could make money and keep the blood from flowing. The Tropicana brought together mob families from NY, New Orleans, and Chicago, and it's been reported that even that old gangster, Joe Kennedy, had a piece of the Trop.

It's no surprise that Rosselli presided over the "Golden Age" of Vegas, where style was required, and violence was forbidden under the "Pax Rosselli." This position only strengthened his growing reputation among the power elite. Whether it was Howard Hughes, the Kennedys, or the bosses at the top of the Commission, people listened to Rosselli... for a reason.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #712086
04/22/13 10:42 AM
04/22/13 10:42 AM
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Was Roselli made into the LA family?


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Sonny_Black] #712115
04/22/13 12:51 PM
04/22/13 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Was Roselli made into the LA family?


Good question. Everything that I have read indicates he was made into the Chicago Outfit. I have not seen anything that he made into the LA Family.


Best way to catch the smart ones? Get an idiot working for them.
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: TonyG] #712133
04/22/13 02:09 PM
04/22/13 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: TonyG
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Was Roselli made into the LA family?


Good question. Everything that I have read indicates he was made into the Chicago Outfit. I have not seen anything that he made into the LA Family.


Chicago:

Roselli was born Filippo Sacco in Italy in 1905 and immigrated to the U.S. with his mother in 1911, settling in East Boston. He dropped out of school taking a job driving a milk wagon basically to cover the delivery of morphine to a variety of customers. On September 14, 1922, at age 17, Roselli had his first recorded run-in with the law. He was being trailed in a sting operation by Federal narcotic agents during one of his deliveries to a drug addict who was also a government informant. Roselli was arrested and released after six months in jail. Shortly thereafter the informant was found murdered and Roselli became the number one suspect.

Harassed and suspected of murder Roselli fled to New York taking up with the New York gangs. Soon he was farmed out to Johnny Torrio who had moved to Chicago in 1918 taking his eventual underboss Al Capone, who was facing a potential murder charge in New York, with him, becoming a member of the Chicago mob. In Chicago one of the 18 year old Roselli's early jobs, as a predecessor to Joe Accardo, was being the driver for the 24 year old Al Capone before Al Capone became Al Capone. When Roselli was diagnosed with early stages of tuberculosis, doctors recommended a warmer climate. Having established himself as a staunch foot soldier and loyalist to the creed and not wanting to waste Roselli's talents as a fearless follow through enforcer Torrio sent him to Los Angeles in 1924.[1] There he was supposed to fall under the auspices of Joseph Ardizzone and Jack Dragna. Instead he turned to bootlegging working for Tony Cornero without planting his feet under anyone specific. Cornero was indicted by federal authorities on Dec. 22, 1926 for his bootlegging activities. He escaped from the authorities and was on the lam for two years before turning himself in, after which he served two years. With Cornero out of the picture Roselli began focusing his efforts exclusively toward Dragna.

During that period Dragna had continually strengthened his position and eventually took over as the sole Los Angeles don after Ardizzone disappeared October 15, 1931. Dragna had his own longtime core of people around him that he knew, trusted, and was familiar with. In a sense Roselli was an outsider, albeit with strong ties to the Chicago outfit. One area Dragna was weak in was the entertainment industry, that is, Hollywood and the film industry. Keeping Roselli at arms length yet still providing a much needed service he put Roselli in charge of dealing with Hollywood --- which he inturn did amazingly well.


Colin Sullivan: "What Freud said about the Irish is: We're the only people who are impervious to psychoanalysis."

Cincotti said: "They don't have the scruples that we have." Zannino agreed. "You know how I knew they weren't Italiano? When they bombed the fucking house. We don't do that."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Bennie_The_Ball] #712167
04/22/13 06:47 PM
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Yes, Rosselli was made in Chicago by Capone before he went to LA.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: TonyG] #712368
04/23/13 04:56 PM
04/23/13 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: TonyG
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Was Roselli made into the LA family?


Good question. Everything that I have read indicates he was made into the Chicago Outfit. I have not seen anything that he made into the LA Family.


Yes, he was a member of the Los Angeles Family under Dragna then transferred to Chicago when he died. Rosselli was made part of the Outfit under Torrio but wasn't "made" at that time because the Outfit was not part of the Mafia/Cosa Nostra until 1931. He could have been made when Ardizzone was boss.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: MobWriter] #712388
04/23/13 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: MobWriter
Yes, Rosselli was made in Chicago by Capone before he went to LA.


So he was alreade made in his teens? Nothing but a handshake right as Capone didn't do the traditional ceremony?


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Faithful1] #712389
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Originally Posted By: Faithful1
Originally Posted By: TonyG
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Was Roselli made into the LA family?


Good question. Everything that I have read indicates he was made into the Chicago Outfit. I have not seen anything that he made into the LA Family.


Yes, he was a member of the Los Angeles Family under Dragna then transferred to Chicago when he died. Rosselli was made part of the Outfit under Torrio but wasn't "made" at that time because the Outfit was not part of the Mafia/Cosa Nostra until 1931. He could have been made when Ardizzone was boss.


Sounds more plausible to me. Maybe he was already recognised as such but became an official member when the Outfit joined the Mafia.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Sonny_Black] #716309
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Sonny you are correct. Roselli was made into the Chicago Outfit before he went to Los Angeles. In those old days, The Outfit did not use the East Coast ceremony. Doesn't mean none of those men weren't made. They were made the Chicago way. The Los Angeles Boss took orders from Roselli because when Roselli was talking, it was CHICAGO TALKING.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Sonny_Black] #716310
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No. Chicago.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: elmwoodparker] #716356
05/19/13 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: elmwoodparker
Sonny you are correct. Roselli was made into the Chicago Outfit before he went to Los Angeles. In those old days, The Outfit did not use the East Coast ceremony. Doesn't mean none of those men weren't made. They were made the Chicago way. The Los Angeles Boss took orders from Roselli because when Roselli was talking, it was CHICAGO TALKING.


He wasn't made as a Cosa Nostra member back then. Capone wasn't yet the Outfit boss, Torrio was. Capone had certain connections that Torrio didn't have. Whether or not Rosselli ever took part in a ceremony himself is not known, but he took part in them as an adviser to Dragna later, and was a member of Dragna's borgata. After Dragna died he and Fratianno transferred their memberships to Chicago; Los Angeles didn't recognize Fratianno's transfer and that created contention between them. Frank LaPorte and San Giancana stood up for Rosselli to Los Angeles, but they didn't inquire about Fratianno until Giancana was out of the picture and LaPorte said he wasn't sure. Anyway, the point is that Rosselli was a member of the Los Angeles Family while Dragna was its boss and possibly earlier considering he lived in California since 1924/25.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Faithful1] #716391
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Faithful1, I always heard he belonged to Chicago and was sent there by Chicago as their representative on the West Coast. He was very friendly with Dragna and the Los Angeles People. There is no question about it. Was he actually made into the Los Angeles Family? I doubt it. Chicago sent him there and he belonged to them wether he was made in Chicago earlier or made later into Dragna's group. Let's put it this way. He took his orders from Chicago. Where he was technically made, who knows.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #716475
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I don't know when he was made, but based on the timeline of him that we have he was only in Chicago for a short time before he came to California, and when he was in Chicago Torrio was in charge. According to more than one informer he was a member of the Los Angeles Family, so maybe he transferred his membership from Chicago to Los Angeles, and then transferred back to Chicago after Dragna died. He stayed with Chicago until the day he was murdered.

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #716875
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Capone only made the guys he trusted and he did it with a hand shake, if he trusted u then u reported directly to him at his headquarters at the hawthorne hotel, it was said that these guys was called the "incrowd" or sometimes called the "bigshots". Johnny roselli was al capones favorite boy and apart of the "incrowd" fellows was jealous of the attention capone gaved to him, thier hate grew from that


"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: thebigfella] #716905
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Originally Posted By: thebigfella
Capone only made the guys he trusted and he did it with a hand shake, if he trusted u then u reported directly to him at his headquarters at the hawthorne hotel, it was said that these guys was called the "incrowd" or sometimes called the "bigshots". Johnny roselli was al capones favorite boy and apart of the "incrowd" fellows was jealous of the attention capone gaved to him, thier hate grew from that


Where are you getting all this information from? What does Al Capone making people have to do with Rosselli since Rosselli joined the Outfit when Torrio was still in charge?

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #716906
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Originally Posted By: Jenkins
I don't know if you guys are bullshitting or not but who gives a damn if he was gay. He played a huge role during the height of the Outfit's power. I would love to hear more of his story.


He figures prominently in Russo's book if you are interested in learning more about him.

Unfortunately I forget most of it!

Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #716910
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Roselli was under torrio but his career did'nt take off until capone tooked him under his wing, another poster made a comment that he dosent know y outfit members didnt care for roselli, hence my comment, all of my info is factual, read up on it


"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
Re: Handsome Johnny Roselli [Re: Jenkins] #716911
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Capone was rosellis guardian angel


"McGurn likes you, so I make you. So you are now one of us, if you fuck up, we take it out on McGurn. He is your sponsor. Fuck up, it's his ass. You work in his crew, he is your capo."
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