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The Baptism did not take place in 50 #700142
02/27/13 05:45 PM
02/27/13 05:45 PM
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Sorry but the Baptism simply could not have taken place in 1950 here is why:

Anthony Corleone was three years old when the baptism took place, So if it took place in 1950 then he would be born in 1947

Now if Michael and Kay got married and had a kid in the same year then that all would have happened in 47.

Since Michael said it had been longer then a year since he got back he would have returned in early 46 going by this timeline.

Since the Turk was killed in late 45/early 46 then it would not be possible for this timeline to work because Michael spent a good amount of time in Sicily

So the end point is that it is simply impossible for the baptism to have taken place in 50 because all of the events in the movie cannot take place in only 5 years

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700181
02/27/13 09:36 PM
02/27/13 09:36 PM
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Of course Michael Francis Rizzi's baptism didn't take place in '50. That's proven not only by Vito's tombstone, but also by all the 1955 cars shown in the baptism and Great Massacre scene.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Turnbull] #700190
02/27/13 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Of course Michael Francis Rizzi's baptism didn't take place in '50. That's proven not only by Vito's tombstone, but also by all the 1955 cars shown in the baptism and Great Massacre scene.


Well TB, while the props say '55, I still say '50/'51.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: olivant] #700212
02/27/13 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Of course Michael Francis Rizzi's baptism didn't take place in '50. That's proven not only by Vito's tombstone, but also by all the 1955 cars shown in the baptism and Great Massacre scene.


Well TB, while the props say '55, I still say '50/'51.


Read what i posted above, it is simply not possible for all these events to happen in only 5-6 years

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700236
02/28/13 05:07 AM
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Agreed. And 11 years old is a little long in the tooth for first communion. And considering the parties those crazy Catholic Sicilians throw for a first Communion, I really don't think they would delay such a landmark event for Anthony.

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: olivant] #700249
02/28/13 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Well TB, while the props say '55, I still say '50/'51.


Good for you. clap


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: olivant] #700259
02/28/13 10:49 AM
02/28/13 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Well TB, while the props say '55, I still say '50/'51.


Big deal. You still say Adriana LaCerva is alive, too.


.
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: SC] #700267
02/28/13 11:16 AM
02/28/13 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: SC
Originally Posted By: olivant
Well TB, while the props say '55, I still say '50/'51.


Big deal. You still say Adriana LaCerva is alive, too.


Just wait for the Sopranos sequel.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: olivant] #700282
02/28/13 02:51 PM
02/28/13 02:51 PM
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Ok..
Vito gets shot in late 1945. We know this because Tom tells Sonny "this is almost 1946,"in the meeting when they are discussing what to do, which has no relevance to anything except the timeline.

The meeting with Michael and Sollozzo had to come within a few weeks of that, so it is safe to assume he got to Sicily in 1946.

How long was he there? Hard to say. I would guess at least two years. There's his courtship and wedding, which only happened after he got bored from being pent up in the Villa. Also his Italian got very good, and his closeness to Dontomassino was well established.

The truce was probably made in late 47 or even 48 and I'd guess it probably took Vito and Tom a few months to work out all the legal obstacles to Michael's return because he had to be "cleared of all of these false charges" connected with the "Sollozzo business."

He is back a year, maybe more, before he proposes to Kay so that takes us to 49. He marries Kay and she must have Anthony, if we are to believe he was 7 when he was baptized in 1958 in 1951. Seems like too long a courtship, and/or too long for her to get pregnant, but who knows? But assuming Anthony was born in '51 he would have been 4 when he saw Vito die, and the child in that death scene looks about 4, which puts Vito's death as 1955. Because there are tomatoes growing, we can assume it is summertime.

I don't think the killing of the heads of the families was much longer after that, BUT if this is all true then when Questeadt or the Senator asked him if he engineered the killings of the heads of tha families in 1950 to consolidate his nefarious power, his answer was truthful! So there goes one of the perjury traps! Sorry, Olivant.

This would mean the property and house in Tahoe was already there, and maybe remodeled or whatever to accommodate Mamma and Tom, Fredo, Connie, et al. but this raises another question. Why was there a For Sale sign on the Mall's wall? In II Michael tells Frankie that he was glad this house didnt go to strangers. Was that a different house?


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700287
02/28/13 03:22 PM
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Okay DT. But a few things to consider which I'd like to take a little at a time. When did the Dons meeting take place? I say summer of '46. Why? Well, Vito is returned to the mall from the hospital in February '46. Once Sonny is murdered, Vito rises from his sickbed. So, if the truce was made in '47 or even '48 as you state above, then Vito lay in his sickbed from February '46 until .... ? If until '47, then he lay there 10 months. If '48. even longer. Plausible? He was 60 years old at the Dons meeting. His birthday was in December of '45. He had been shot 5 times. Is it plausible that he was in his sickbed for almost a year? Yes. But I maintain that it's only plausible, but not likely. So, if Sonny is murdered during the war of 1947, then, indeed, Vito lay in his sickbed for at least 12 months and, thus, one element of your timeline fits.

Last edited by olivant; 02/28/13 04:21 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: dontomasso] #700323
02/28/13 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
But assuming Anthony was born in '51 he would have been 4 when he saw Vito die, and the child in that death scene looks about 4, which puts Vito's death as 1955. Because there are tomatoes growing, we can assume it is summertime.

I don't think the killing of the heads of the families was much longer after that,


The little boy who portrayed Anthony was actually three years old. Vito's tombstone lists that he died July 29, so we can safely presume the Great Massacre happened only a few weeks later, somewhere in August or September at the very latest.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700420
03/01/13 06:23 AM
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I think we shouldn't refer to the tombstone, because it's more likely than any other things in GF a movie mistake.
GF2 completely messes up any timeline.

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Danito] #700430
03/01/13 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted By: Danito
I think we shouldn't refer to the tombstone, because it's more likely than any other things in GF a movie mistake.
GF2 completely messes up any timeline.


Apparantly the July 29, 1955 day of death was not a mistake otherwise it wouldn't have been confirmed by the official timeline. Only his day of birth was changed and subsequently confirmed by the timeline.

The sentator's statements obviously were mistakes, such as stating that Michael killed Sollozzo and McCluskey in 1947, while that is out of the question.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700451
03/01/13 11:10 AM
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Hey, these were violent times! I think that most of the kids got killed and replaced by younger siblings or older adopted ones given the same names.

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Professor_M] #700454
03/01/13 11:41 AM
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Doesn't Vito's tombstone give a birth date other than December 7?


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: dontomasso] #700459
03/01/13 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Doesn't Vito's tombstone give a birth date other than December 7?


Another conflict DT.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: olivant] #700494
03/01/13 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Doesn't Vito's tombstone give a birth date other than December 7?


Another conflict DT.


Wow I am getting really conflicted about these films.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: dontomasso] #700513
03/01/13 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Originally Posted By: olivant
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Doesn't Vito's tombstone give a birth date other than December 7?


Another conflict DT.


Wow I am getting really conflicted about these films.


Tell me about it! See, if Puzo and FFc wold have just consulted us before filming the Trilogy, we could have avoided all of this.

Last edited by olivant; 03/01/13 04:19 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700734
03/03/13 04:45 AM
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Sonny which official timeline are you referring to? I haven't seen any real timeline

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700768
03/03/13 12:46 PM
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The timeline provided by the Blu-ray or DVD of the Trilogy.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700785
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Was that Senator on Michael's payroll? Maybe he deliberately changed the dates of those transgressions in order to clear Michael of whatever perjury charges he could.

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Sonny_Black] #700860
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
The timeline provided by the Blu-ray or DVD of the Trilogy.


Interesting, i have never seen this timeline , oddly it places Vitos death at 54 and Roths at 59

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700882
03/04/13 09:13 AM
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True, but it does place the massacre at '55. But as I've said before the official timeline consists of a number of flaws such as placing Vito's return to Sicily in 1927. See the related thread I made.

Over the years even the official timeline has differed a little bit such as putting Sonny's death at either '47 or '48. If you check out the Corleone family tree on the Blu-ray or DVD you will see that some dates slight differ from the timeline as well.

Also, on the criminal chart that's exclusive to the Blu-ray, it's stated at Michael Corleone's fact file that he ordered Roth's death in 1960, which would be correct since Roth came back to vote in the Presidential election.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Sonny_Black] #700884
03/04/13 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black

Also, on the criminal chart that's exclusive to the Blu-ray, it's stated at Michael Corleone's fact file that he ordered Roth's death in 1960, which would be correct since Roth came back to vote in the Presidential election.


I dont know if this is true or not , but i heard that there was originally another hour and a half of Part 2 that went on after Fredo's death that showed Michael Destroying more of Roth's empire, If this is true , then the scene of Roth's death would have taken place later in the film , which would make more sense

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #700909
03/04/13 02:27 PM
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At the end of Part II you see a close-up of a much older looking Michael. Some have suggested that he somehow aged significantly within a year due to his diabetes, which is ofcourse not the case. The reason why we see a much older Michael is because this was originally part of a scene when he would meet up with an 18 year old Anthony. The proof of this is provided by the latest draft of the screenplay. When FFC finished filming of Part II, he had shot 7 hours of film, so a great deal of scenes were left out in order to reduce the lenght of the film. Some of those scenes were restored in The Godfather Saga. But there's still hours of film that has never been shown before.

Maybe one day it will be recovered and restored as a mini-serie. That would be something.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Sonny_Black] #701017
03/05/13 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
At the end of Part II you see a close-up of a much older looking Michael. Some have suggested that he somehow aged significantly within a year due to his diabetes, which is ofcourse not the case. The reason why we see a much older Michael is because this was originally part of a scene when he would meet up with an 18 year old Anthony. The proof of this is provided by the latest draft of the screenplay. When FFC finished filming of Part II, he had shot 7 hours of film, so a great deal of scenes were left out in order to reduce the lenght of the film. Some of those scenes were restored in The Godfather Saga. But there's still hours of film that has never been shown before.

Maybe one day it will be recovered and restored as a mini-serie. That would be something.


Interesting, but i wonder, could the scenes still be used or would they conflict with godfather 3?

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #701036
03/05/13 09:27 AM
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Who gives a shit about The Godfather III. whistle But I doubt they would conflict, or otherwise so be it. cool IMO, anything of Part II overules Part III.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #701058
03/05/13 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted By: Hisenberg

Interesting, but i wonder, could the scenes still be used or would they conflict with godfather 3?


That's one potential problem associated with sequels: trying to achieve a large degree of continuity (Of course, the inconsistencies between the films provide us with a lot of talking points).

But as long as you kept the scenes consistent, I think there's probably alot of film that could have been used in III. But at 3 hours plus already, editing must be a nightmare.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Sonny_Black] #701162
03/06/13 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Who gives a shit about The Godfather III. whistle But I doubt they would conflict, or otherwise so be it. cool IMO, anything of Part II overules Part III.


At the very least they should be released as deleted scenes someday. I also would like to see the original fabrizio death and the Bonasera Job but those are probably lost for good at this point.

Re: The Baptism did not take place in 50 [Re: Hisenberg] #701164
03/06/13 01:28 AM
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If incorporating Part III, I have to wonder why it would take Anthony 10-11 years (1968-1979) to go through college and part of law school. What the hell was that boy doing in his college years?

Macrame?

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