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Who's in charge here? #699210
02/24/13 01:43 PM
02/24/13 01:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 67
Professor_M Offline OP
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Professor_M  Offline OP
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Another discussion here underlines the fact that Vito -- still recovering from his serious wounds -- was just barely able to comprehend the situation and to reassume control of his Family in the wake of Sonny's assassination.

What would have happened if he'd still been bedridden and semi-comatose for a few more weeks? E.g., Could Hagen have kept things together by issuing orders and pretending they'd come from Vito?

Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Professor_M] #699350
02/24/13 05:52 PM
02/24/13 05:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
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Turnbull Offline
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Fair question. I always assumed that Vito's first words--"I want no inquiries made...this war ends now..." were admissions that he wasn't well enough to lead the family to victory in the war. But, what if Vito had lapsed into a coma so that he couldn't even utter that order?

Tess and Clem knew Tom had Vito's confidence. But they also knew that Tom was not on the muscle end of the business. I think if Vito was totally incapacitated, they would have worked together to continue the war as Sonny had been fighting it until Vito was well enough to act. I don't think they would have initiated getting Michael back from Sicily since bringing him back depended on calling a truce and caving in on drugs--and they weren't empowered to do that.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Professor_M] #699357
02/24/13 06:11 PM
02/24/13 06:11 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Another thing I'm wondering about. I was actually planning on creating a new thread but I could just add it to this thread.

Why didn't Sollozzo and the Tattaglias also target Tessio and Clemenza? Clemenza was apparantly an easy target, seeing him at his house alone, or with just one driver.

Imo, killing Clemenza and Tessio, the ones who would hold the family together, would have been a severe blow to the Corleone family, with or without killing Vito.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Sonny_Black] #699514
02/25/13 11:34 AM
02/25/13 11:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
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Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Original geschrieben von: Sonny_Black
Another thing I'm wondering about. I was actually planning on creating a new thread but I could just add it to this thread.

Why didn't Sollozzo and the Tattaglias also target Tessio and Clemenza? Clemenza was apparantly an easy target, seeing him at his house alone, or with just one driver.

Imo, killing Clemenza and Tessio, the ones who would hold the family together, would have been a severe blow to the Corleone family, with or without killing Vito.


Clemenza didn't live in his house during the war. They had gone to the mattrasses as you can see in the non-verbal sequence before Vito's return.

Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Danito] #699553
02/25/13 01:41 PM
02/25/13 01:41 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Another thing I'm wondering about. I was actually planning on creating a new thread but I could just add it to this thread.

Why didn't Sollozzo and the Tattaglias also target Tessio and Clemenza? Clemenza was apparantly an easy target, seeing him at his house alone, or with just one driver.

Imo, killing Clemenza and Tessio, the ones who would hold the family together, would have been a severe blow to the Corleone family, with or without killing Vito.


Clemenza didn't live in his house during the war. They had gone to the mattrasses as you can see in the non-verbal sequence before Vito's return.


They only did that afterward once Sonny determined that there was no alternative.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Danito] #699560
02/25/13 02:15 PM
02/25/13 02:15 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
Clemenza didn't live in his house during the war. They had gone to the mattrasses as you can see in the non-verbal sequence before Vito's return.


The war didn't start until Michael killed Sollozzo. After Vito was shot, Clemenza still lived in his house on the day Paulie was murdered, making him an easy target.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Sonny_Black] #699573
02/25/13 02:49 PM
02/25/13 02:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Going back to the original ideas in this thread, I think if Vito was still incapacitated after Sonny's murder, it might well have spelled the end to the Corleone family IMHO. Even though Tom wasn't on the "muscle end" of the family, I think they would have gone after him if he did anything but surrender.
I think Tessio, who eventually sold out, would have done so and Clem would have either died fighting, or had his territories "chiseled away" to the point he would have folded.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Sonny_Black] #699713
02/25/13 09:13 PM
02/25/13 09:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,518
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Turnbull Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Why didn't Sollozzo and the Tattaglias also target Tessio and Clemenza? Clemenza was apparantly an easy target, seeing him at his house alone, or with just one driver.


Sonny, Did you mean why didn't Sol and Tatt target Tess and Clem at the same time that they targeted Vito? I think the reason was that, if Vito had died, Sonny, not Tess or Clem, would be making the decisions--and Sol was confident that Sonny would go along with his deal. Killing Tess and Clem would lead to unnecessary bloodshed and complicate matters with unnecessary bad feelings. (N.B.: In the novel, Sol tells Tom that he could have had Fredo whacked but he didn't want any more bad feelings--"Fredo is alive because of me.")

After the war started, everyone was fair game.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Who's in charge here? [Re: Turnbull] #699932
02/26/13 03:07 PM
02/26/13 03:07 PM
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Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Sonny, Did you mean why didn't Sol and Tatt target Tess and Clem at the same time that they targeted Vito? I think the reason was that, if Vito had died, Sonny, not Tess or Clem, would be making the decisions--and Sol was confident that Sonny would go along with his deal. Killing Tess and Clem would lead to unnecessary bloodshed and complicate matters with unnecessary bad feelings. (N.B.: In the novel, Sol tells Tom that he could have had Fredo whacked but he didn't want any more bad feelings--"Fredo is alive because of me.")


You're right about Sonny, but without Clemenza and Tessio to keep their troops in line he would be in a severely weakened position and he wouldn't last long. Without Clemenza and Tessio, the family would have fallen apart.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."

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