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When was Michael made? #697507
02/18/13 01:29 PM
02/18/13 01:29 PM
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johnnyboysala Offline OP
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Was he made in Sicily? On his return? Was he already made but no active before or shortly after the war?

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #697509
02/18/13 01:44 PM
02/18/13 01:44 PM
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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When he shot Sollozzo and McCluskey.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #697512
02/18/13 01:57 PM
02/18/13 01:57 PM
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olivant Offline
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We don't know when any of the Trilogy characters were made or if being made was always a required ritual with an inductor and an inductee. The question starts with Vito. The novel doesn't enlighten us either.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: When was Michael made? [Re: olivant] #697561
02/18/13 04:42 PM
02/18/13 04:42 PM
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johnnyboysala Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: olivant
We don't know when any of the Trilogy characters were made or if being made was always a required ritual with an inductor and an inductee. The question starts with Vito. The novel doesn't enlighten us either.



Presumably because Puzo wasn't aware or couldnt be certain about a formal making ceremony?

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: olivant] #697571
02/18/13 05:14 PM
02/18/13 05:14 PM
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Danito Offline
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Original geschrieben von: olivant
The question starts with Vito. The novel doesn't enlighten us either.

Vito came from outside. When he freed the neighborhood from Fanucci, it earned him the respect of Tessio and Clemenza who probably made him their boss. He became even more respected when he cared about certain problems in his neighborhood. He was trusted and feared.
I guess he used some ceremony stuff as the ring kissing. Look how Santino was included in the crime business. Vito shrug and said come on, and that was it.

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #697655
02/19/13 02:03 AM
02/19/13 02:03 AM
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Yeah, I get the impression that Vito would find such consraints/restrictions to be nonsense. A ceremony to be even more nonsense.

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #697792
02/19/13 04:42 PM
02/19/13 04:42 PM
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He was probably made when he returned from Sicily and officially became part of his father's business.

My own hypothesis is that Vito was made in Sicily when he avenged the death of his father. Once he was made himself and as head of his organization, he was able to induct his own people in New York.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: When was Michael made? [Re: Sonny_Black] #698001
02/20/13 08:58 AM
02/20/13 08:58 AM
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Danito Offline
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Original geschrieben von: Sonny_Black
he was able to induct his own people in New York.

"His own people?" Who are you talking about?

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: Danito] #698007
02/20/13 09:55 AM
02/20/13 09:55 AM
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dontomasso Offline
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Vito was made when he killed Fanucci. He avenged his father way later.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #698068
02/20/13 01:48 PM
02/20/13 01:48 PM
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I'm surprised at some of these posts. Many of we Board members have at least a cursory knowledge of Mafia history. Thus, we should know that one does not elect to become a Mafioso unless invited to become one regardless of the era in which one became one.

One does not just announce that they are a Mafioso and expect Mafiosi to say OK. One does not decide that what they did qualifies them as a Mafioso. It is somewhat surprising that neither Puzo or FFC gave any indication of where and when Vito was accepted into the Mafia's ranks; it is further surprising that, without any such indication, Puzo has Maranzano speak of Vito as a parliamentary debator and not a true Mafioso. Of course, had Puzo had Vito inducted into the Mafia, such induction would have been through a Mafia family. That would have made Vito a subordinate and that would have complicated Puzo's tale.

Last edited by olivant; 02/20/13 01:49 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #698077
02/20/13 02:19 PM
02/20/13 02:19 PM
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did they even perform "making ceremonies" when Vito was coming up? When did that start in America?

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: dontomasso] #698088
02/20/13 03:25 PM
02/20/13 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Vito was made when he killed Fanucci. He avenged his father way later.


Made by whom? Did he make himself? rolleyes The thing is, he could only have been made by another Don in New York, and then would have subsequently become part of that family.

I think it's the most plausible that he was made back in Sicily by his cronies in Corleone. He went to Sicily just a few years after he killed Fanucci. The novel also describes that he started to formally organize his family, making Clemenza and Tessio capos and Genco consigliere, somewhere in the 1920s. I think this happened when he returned from Sicily, after being formally inducted as a man of honor and being able to induct others into the Mafia.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: When was Michael made? [Re: Sonny_Black] #698099
02/20/13 04:07 PM
02/20/13 04:07 PM
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sonny_Black
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
Vito was made when he killed Fanucci. He avenged his father way later.


Made by whom? Did he make himself? rolleyes The thing is, he could only have been made by another Don in New York, and then would have subsequently become part of that family.



Exactly: made by whom?

After his conversation with Don Roberto, only his neighborhood recognizes him as a man of respect. Subsequently, Vito designated Clemenza and Tessio as capos, but only after his alliance with the Italian bootleggers which then led to a spurt of his organization's growth. Unfortunately, there is no mention in the novel of Don Ciccio's murder or Vito's return to Sicily. The only plausible explanation which the film provides is that once he murdered Don Ciccio that Don Tommassino inducted him (of course, that assumes that Tommassino was already Mafioso).

Last edited by olivant; 02/20/13 04:08 PM.

"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #698115
02/20/13 05:10 PM
02/20/13 05:10 PM
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Well then: What about Don Tomassino? Was he a member of the Mafia?

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: Danito] #698121
02/20/13 05:17 PM
02/20/13 05:17 PM
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olivant Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
Well then: What about Don Tomassino? Was he a member of the Mafia?
The novel states that he was; Michael was exiled to Sicily under his protection.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: When was Michael made? [Re: olivant] #698143
02/20/13 06:21 PM
02/20/13 06:21 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
The only plausible explanation which the film provides is that once he murdered Don Ciccio that Don Tommassino inducted him (of course, that assumes that Tommassino was already Mafioso).


Which is what I believe. I think Tommasino was already a man of honor in Don Ciccio's (or Don Francesco's) Mafia clan, and Vito provided him the opportunity to take over this clan and make way for the younger generation. Tommasino, as the new capo of the Corleone clan, formally inducted Vito into the Mafia so that he could become a legitimate Mafia leader in New York.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #698511
02/22/13 02:59 AM
02/22/13 02:59 AM
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That's how I see it too. Tommasino moved up in Sicily once Vito eliminated Ciccio and his capos, gaining Tommasino's blessing in the U.S.

I would also be led to believe that the Pentangelis were an integral part of Ciccio/Tommasino's "Family".

Re: When was Michael made? [Re: johnnyboysala] #701927
03/10/13 08:25 AM
03/10/13 08:25 AM
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Michael was made after he came back from Sicily a few weeks later.because of the Sollozzo thing,Michael passed the test.it was vito Presided over the ceremony.I got that from The Godfather Returns.


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