Some on these boards believe Michael is a tragic figure. Yes, there’s a ton of tragedy in his life—all self-inflicted. He had free choice at every turn, and he freely chose the Mob life, with disastrous results. Here are four major examples that I’d like your opinions on:
First: He was right to think Sollozzo would try to kill his father after the failed hospital attempt. He was wrong to believe that only he could save his father, by killing Sollozzo and McCluskey. Ironically, an idea that Michael himself had suggested could have been modified to solve the problem bloodlessly. The Corleones could have fed the newspapermen on their payroll the story about McCluskey being a dishonest cop mixed up in drugs and murder before, not after, the trigger was pulled. McCluskey was on the take all his life, and the Corleones had all the details because they paid him. The newspapers would have given that story such headlines that the Police Commissioner would have been shamed into providing Vito with an army to protect him, to save further embarrassment. McCluskey and Sollozzo would have been neutralized without any bloodshed. At minimum, McCluskey would have been transferred or suspended pending investigation; with pressure from the Corleone judges, he’d have been indicted for taking bribes. Sollozzo would have been arrested and probably deported as an undesirable alien. With McCluskey alive, the cops would have had no reason to crack down on all Mob activities. There would have been no Five Families War of 1946, leaving it a contest between the Corleones and the Tattaglias—and as we know, Tattaglia was a pimp, alone he could never have outfought Santino. Michael could have married Kay and gone back to college (and we would have had no Godfather Trilogy!).
Instead, Michael chose to kill Sollozzo and McCluskey, setting in motion his abandonment of Kay, his Sicilian exile, the Five Families War, Carlo’s betrayal, Sonny’s murder, Apollonia’s murder.
Second: He could have resumed the legitimate life after returning from Sicily. He could have said to Vito: “Pop, I was wrong to distance myself from you. But I atoned: I saved your life. And I paid a heavy price: two murders, abandoned my beloved fiancée, lost months out of my life in Sicily, lost my beloved bride to a bomb intended for me. We’re quits. Now you run the family…Oh, not feeling well enough to take the reins? Fredo not equal to the task? Sorry, Pop, that’s not my problem. Besides, you always said you didn’t want this for me—you wanted me to be a pezzanovante. Well, I can’t be Senator Corleone or Governor Corleone if I’m Don Corleone. Bye-bye.”
Instead, Michael chooses to become the Don, setting in motion Tessio’s betrayal, the Great Massacre of 1955, Connie’s widowhood and breakdown, and the beginning of Kay’s disillusionment with him.
Third: After moving toTahoe, Michael could have retired behind the walls of his compound and invested his wealth legitimately—even putting money up-front in the legal casinos of Nevada.
Instead, he chose to hide his ownership or controlling interest in three hotels; muscle Klingman out of his interest in a fourth hotel; dominate the New York mob scene through Frankie Pentangeli; undercut Pentangeli through his support of the Rosato Brothers and their drug-dealing; stake Fredo to ownership of a brothel, and plan for a huge international expansion of his gambling empire through his deal with Roth. Results: Fredo’s betrayal; the machinegun attack that nearly killed Kay in her bed and scared the bejesus out of his kids; Kay’s estrangement, abortion and divorce; Anthony’s estrangement; Fredo’s murder (and a host of other killings).
Fourth: he was “legitimate” in GFIII—but was he? He whines, “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.” But he was never out. He either was still a member of the Commission or influential enough to keep Zasa from rising (so Vincent tells us). He laundered his Mob cronies’ money through his “legitimate” businesses (maybe through his foundations) and cut Zasa out of his share. Result: the machinegun attack in Atlantic City that killed all his pals and precipitated his diabetic stroke. It wasn’t enough that he became a Papal Knight: he had to dominate International Immobiliare by bribing crooked-as-a-corkscrew Archbishop Gilday, setting in motion Altobello’s betrayal and setting him against Don Lucchese, who was far more powerful in Europe. And, in an act of supreme irresponsibility and egotism: Told that Sicily’s top assassin—“a man who never fails”—has targeted him, Michael gathers his entire family around him in Sicily, making them all sitting ducks. Surprise, surprise: his beloved Mary gets killed and his budding reconciliation with Kay is nipped in the bud, leading to his own, lonely death, attended by a couple of dogs.
Michael succeeded--in turning everything he touched into death, including his own.

I'll take a crack at # 1...

If the reasoning of the Corleone Family Brain Trust was correct in that the Sollozzo-Michael meeting was just a Sollozzo trick to buy him a few days time before attempting another hit on Don C., then Michael's killing of The Turk was their only option. Your suggestion that they could have used their newspapermen and judges, etc., requires time, and the Corleones, rightly or wrongly, felt that more immediate action was required.

That being the case, Michael was really the only one who could carry out the hit. With the scheduled meeting, he was the only one who could actually get close enough to Sollozzo to kill him.

Michael points this out to Sonny in the novel, and adds "I don't think you could get anyone else (willing) to knock off a police captain. Maybe you would do it, Sonny, but you have a wife and kids and have to run the family business until the old man is in shape. So that leaves me and Freddie. Freddie is in shock and out of action. Finally that leaves just me. It's all logic."

I'll take a pop at #2:

Once Michael whacked Sollozzo and McCluskey he had limited his options for the future and he had definitely kissed Senator or Governor Corleone good-bye. The dogs in the street knew that Michael had carried out the killing and even though Vito was able to buy the inaction of the authorities it would always be in Michael's background if he ran for public office. As you said in another post the principle of Omerta wasn't quite as water tight as the Mafia made out, so there would always be a Cicci or Pentangeli in the woodwork willing to go to the papers and say, “See that Corleone guy running for office, do you know what he did in 1946….”. Also in killing Sollozzo and McCluskey, Michael realised the power of the violence and/or the threat of violence. He had inherited Vito's ruthless streak and this meant vengeance for Sonny and Apollonia had to be taken. This meant taking on Barzini and Tattaglia. His path was set. He had to become Don Corleone.

This all goes back to Sonny's faux pas in the meeting with Sollozzo. Had he not opened his mouth, none of this would have come to pass.

I look as Michael as someone whose entire adult life was ruled by circumstances beyond his control. He works hard to distance himself from his family's criminal enterprises, but gets drawn in when his father his shot. He sees that one brother is WAY too emotional and impulsive to make intelligent decisions; and he sees the other brother has become a blithering idiot. And, unlike Sonny, I get the feeling Michael never really considered Tom an equal brother.

There's a telling scene, both in the book and in the movie, when Michael is standing outside the hospital with the baker. When a car approaches -- one that they assume is filled with hitmen -- they each stick their hands in their pockets so it'll look like they're armed. After the car leaves, Enzo goes to light a cigarette and his hands are shaking all over the place. Michael's are perfectly still -- something that he takes note of right away.

I think Michael realized at that moment that if his family was to survive, he was going to have be the one to keep it together. He knew Sonny was basically irresponsible and reckless (something he alludes to in GFIII). He knew Fredo wasn't up for the job. And, like I said, I don't think he ever really regarded Tom with that much respect.

He may have had a free choice to get involved, but from his perspective, it probably wasn't much of one. And I DO think that Sollozzo would have gotten to The Don. To quote Michael, if history has proven anything, it's that you can kill anyone.

I doubt that Michael could ever have simply resumed a normal life after returning home from Sicily. First, not being a dumb guy, he could see his father failing, and he realized that enemies of the family killed not only his beloved wife, but his brother as well. Unless the family rallied around someone strong and somewhat level-headed, it would crumble.

Another interesting thing that doesn't really get as much attention in the movie as in the book is the case of Clemenza. One of the most memorable lines in GFI is when Michael tells Tom, "Tessio was always smarter."

Clemenza was depicted in the movie as being a bit of a finocchio -- something that obviously wouldn't go over well with someone as steely as Michael. Tessio was more laconic (this is brought out in the book much more; and is embellished greatly in GFII).

Tessio's betrayal happened simply because he felt that he, being older and JUST as laconic and business-oriented as Michael, should have been given a crack at running the family when the Don wasn't able to do it anymore. Mafia history is just FULL of these kinds of power struggles when the Big Boss either dies, gets sent up, or becomes too sick to rule.

As an aside, Tessio is the ONE character I would have liked to have learned more about. He kind of hangs back throughout both the book AND the movie, and right at the end, commits the ultimate act of betrayal.

As for Michael in GFII, I think Turnbull is a little more on-the-money here. I think we see in GFII a Michael who has become thorougly corrupted (relatively speaking, of course). Where he may have felt compelled to do what he did in GFI (and maybe even considered what he did heroic), there is no such sheen in GFII. Michael has become the underworld equivalent of Ebenezer Scrooge by GFII -- so completely absorbed in what he does that he ceases to be even human. I think that's the one thing always unsettled me in GFII -- the TOTAL lack of humanity (even for a major underwold figure, he is totally devoid of warmth). It was scary (it was also brilliant acting). In fact, one of the things that put me off about GFII in the beginning was my total dislike for him (which is strange because you found yourself rooting for the Corleones in GFI despite knowing what criminals they were). I was NOT rooting for Michael in GFII.

GFIII was different altogether. Somewhere between the end of GFII and the beginning of GFIII, Michael rediscovered his humanity. And I see a lot of similarities between GFI and GFIII in that events that Michael cannot control sort of interrupt the course he's tried to set for himself (Dad gets shot in GFI; Vincent comes out of the woodwork and starts to cause trouble in GFIII).

Also, events in GFI unfolded because Sonny couldn't keep his mouth shut and his temper in check; events in GFIII unfold because Vincent can't keep his mouth shut and HIS temper in check).

Also, as Sollozzo said in GFI (in another MEMORALBE quote): "With all due respects, the Don was slipping." Can anyone honestly say Michael wasn't slipping by GFIII?

Fantastic reply cannoli!!

I agree with everything, except I think Michael had respect for Tom, (probably more than he had for Fredo), but knew that the family should be in the control of a blood member of the family - Tom isn't and isn't even Italian or Sicilian.

Apart from that well said!

Turnbull, great start of a thread. That is why we all think of you as # 1 poster.
and guys your asnswers were also impressive.

My main point being that everything is easy when you are looking back. Hind sight is always 20-20. The quaterback saying why did I let the ball go. Or the old saying I knew when I let it go it was wrong...

Michael did what he did because he couldn't think of any other ideas for the amount of time he had. Most he did because of the closeness of his family ties. Factor in the life and death pressure of what he was doing and I think most peoples minds would be fried.

Let see how well you really function when you ARE in a real life and death problem. I have heard may people say one thing, but when an armed robber is standing before you with a gun six inches from your face, in the real world your mind is in a whole different place.

Remember Fredo and his reactiion to his fathers shooting..not uncommon in the real world. But we stand around picking him apart for being weak...Michael shows some of this with his face before he shoots the two and the train noise symbolizes his mind running a number of different ways.

I think we all watch to many movies, and TV shows and we seem to forget what is real and what is pretend....

Turnbull, that was an excellent post, the greatest way of expressing your thoughts, I totally agree in everything you just said and let me tell you that was one of the greatest posts I have ever read.

Turnbull, You are the master!!

However, I think you left one important thing out. I agree that Michael had free will. Once it was made clear that Vito's only chance of survival is for Sollozzo (and therefore McCluskey) to be killed, I don't necessarily agree that Michael had any other choice but to turn to murder. I think he did what he had to do to save his Family.

I think what you left out was that Michael LIKED IT!! That "slap" from McCluskey was his turning point. Aside from the calm hands during the cigarette lighting scene, you can see the coldness in him when he's talking to Sonny the next day about how HE will be the one to pull the trigger. The book talks about the "delicious icy coldness" that pervades his body when he realizes his destiny. He wants to be that man. He realizes that he was always meant to be that man.

However, as do many powerful men, he felt the need to impose his power on everyone and everything in his life. His way or no way. And, ultimately, he chased away those who truly loved him.

His life truly was tragic, but not necessarily a tragedy. I think that tragedies are triggered by circumstances beyond control. I agree with you, Turnbull, that the twists and turns his life took were completely within his control.

Wow! As many times as I have watched GF I almost feel "ignorant" or unworthy to even reply to Turnbull's excellent analysis.

I always wondered how a "nice college boy" could suddenly change and become a heartless villian he later became. I think Sicilian Babe is right, that after the Sollozo/McCluskey killings, Michael actually enjoyed it, whether it was the attempt on his father's life, the challenge of revenge or the power, that changed him, I don't know. I agree that he surely did become "devoid" of feelings tho. Which would make one wonder, was he always like that deep down inside, but didn't know himself what he was capable of, or can one event "turn" someone into a completely different personality. Yes, the tragedies Michael encountered in his life were mostly brought on by Michael.

TIS

I thought it was funny when Turnbull but (long post) because i've never seen a small post from him except for dialogue games. I believe on number 4, I didn't like GFIII in all walks of life. He went soft after all those years, and he just left himslef open because of his "stupidity" and his wanting of Kay. I always think, if Appolonia had never died, it would've been better .

Excellent thread. Turnbull, once again you have proved how superior you are in Trilogy translation and brute knowledge. However, I do disagree with you. I agree with almost everything that Cannoli says. Except for a few things.

Firstly, and least important, I don't think that Sonny thought of Tom as a true brother, at least in the movie (I have to go into my bookcase and re-read the book to check up on a few things-including Tom's speech to Kay at the end.) The largest piece of evidence to this is when Tessio, Clemenza, Sonny, Tom and Micheal are in the office discussing the current problem, just before the "...Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes" line. When Tom says "If the old man dies, you make the deal Sonny." and Sonny counters "That's easy for you to say, he ain't your father." and Tom says "I was as much of a son to him as you or Mike." Watch the shot of Sonny after Tom says this. He shrugs, raises his eyebrows and makes a "whatever" type motion with his hand. Also, we see how Sonny rates blood over anything else in "Your country ain't your blood, you remember that." Sorry about getting into the quotes so much, but it's the best way to make the point.

Secondly, in Part II, I don't believe that Micheal ever gives up on his goal to make the family legitimate. The whole time he is expanding his interests in the legal gambling of Las Vegas and leaves New York almost completely to Pentangelie (When Frankie says "Your telling me how to run my family." It seems as if it is a new thing.) The whole deal with Roth and Cuba would have given him enough legit profit to abandon all underworld money. What Micheal was getting in Cuba was "cooperation with a friendly government." So, although he was ruthless and cold and as many say, inhuman, he still wanted the family to become legitamate. At the party when Kay brings up the family not being legit, and Micheal says that he's working on it, and when Mike says to Kay just before the revelation of the abortion, he says "I'd like to talk to you, about some things I've been thinking of, things on my mind." In both of these cases I believe he is telling the truth, not just trying to get Kay off his back.

Thirdly,and finally, in Part III, the Immobilaire scheme is the same as the plan for Cuba, it's a way to get enough legitamate profit to sever all links to the underworld.

TM

Mattresses,

I'm not sure about your post re: Sonny and Tom's relationship.

I think that in many ways, Sonny was much closer to Tom than he was to his own blood brothers. After all, there were a number of years between him and Michael, and he obviously thought of him as very much of a "baby brother". And Fredo was just an underling given light responsibility. Tom, however, was not only a friend, but a trusted advisor. Maybe when the chips were down, blood became more important. Also, though, remember that Sonny would say and do things when he was angry that he often regretted and had little or no control over.

I think that much of that came after the Don died. I think Tom was quite close to Sonny and Vito, but that changed with Michael. Tom would always see himself as an outsider looking in, as evidenced by his many scenes with Michael in GFII (quite literally in the scene with Johnny Ola). Remember how Tom almost cries when Michael says that he thinks of Tom as a "true brother"?

hey ummmmm... no offense or anything.... but aren't you taking the godfather a lil too far. I love the godfather but, I mean its just a movie/book, right?

Wrong! If it were "just a movie/book," it wouldn't have the devoted, worldwide following represented by these boards.

okay i shoudln't of said 'just a' cause it is a lot more than that but geez lol lets analyze fredo's life now why we're at it.

Then according to your thinking, we shouldn't have spent all those years in English class reading Shakespeare, Salinger and all of the other great authors just because they're books!?!?
Hamlet was just a disgruntled guy and we should take that at face value??? Michael Corleone was just a guy who took over the family business and had a lot of people killed???

The Godfather is a modern day classic, and the analysis of its characters and digging through the complexity of them is where you get the appreciation of how great the book actually is.

Personally, I don't think Michael had a free choice in all of his decisions, and I don't think his choice a mafia life was soley based upon his father's murder attempt. I also believe that society help guide Michael's decision to work for the family.

Michael was a intelligent ivy-league student, WWII marine hero, soft spoken, mannerable young man in quest for the american dream. He was even personable. It is kinda strange that Michael never had any New England buddies except for Kay. Something is wrong right there!

Mike went to the hospital to visit his dad [you know the rest]. Now he stands face to face with a uniform wearing police captian with a dominnering presence, who makes disparging remarks of Michael's nationality. After the captian have been reminded about Michael's accomplishments, was McClusky impressed? NO! In fact, it appeared that it angered him more. On top of that a person of inferior pettigee is telling him what he should do. In response, the capt unlawfully attempt to throw Micheal in jail and then bruitize him by breaking Michael's jaw.
In the 40's, was the capt's views on Sicilans were those of a small minority? I don't think so. I think a hellava lot of people think the way the capt did. It is very sad that all the "miracles" that Michael accomplish for his country. His country thinks of him as a ginnea WOP who should be locked up in jail.
After Michael finally recieved his "wake-up call" ( he sure did ignore Sonny and Vito's) by Mcclusky, that is, he is inferior. It's just human nature to lean toward places where you are wanted. No, I never thought that there were any picketfenced houses for Micheal and Kay to live in peace in the suburbs. I also think that that night showed Michael that as well.
...just a thought.

I love the godfather, but I am the first to admit that the godfather is no Shakespeare! And those english classes were a waste of time and tuition. heck! I never knew those classes filling up a lecture hall!

Well Turnbull it costed some time to read every post in this treat but I can't agree completely with you with your fourth point:

Nobody said he was legitimate. Michael only wanted to be it, become legitimate. And yes he was still a member of the Commission. But I think he also wanted to quit with that. He stopt making money for other people. He said: "I come to tell that our co-operation ends here..." I think this was an indication that he also wanted to quit with being a member of the Commission.

But I can agree on your very last sentence. What he touched was doomed for life! He did very stupid things and made stupid decisions, with the result that the family's power was over.

BTW, maybe I also have some ??? on point 2. you said Mike could quit after coming back from Sicily. But when he got back he would probably had some feelings of revenge. His brother was killed, Appolonia. Not easy to quit.

I just skem through the postings so I regret if I am duplicating someone elses thoughts. But i did read MM floors and is responding to his comments.

Michael WAS legitimate during the time of the commission. Yes, he wanted to quit the commission because he wanted to enter into global enterprises. Plus, he did not wanted to be associated with mobsters anymore. It appears that Michael wanted to 'set the clock back to 1959'. He wanted Kay and his children back into his life, and to become legit. He invited Kay to his pompal-like ceremony to show her how legit he really is, and he is a changed man. Unfortunately, that backfired as she saw through his real intentions as a $100,000,000 investment party.
I don't believe that Michael could have quit after he returned to Sicily. The mob or even street gangs, is not like working at McDonalds, you can quit flipping hamburgers the next day if you choose to. When Michael shot Sollozo, he was doomed to a life in the mob. Recall that his father wept after learning of Michael's involvement with sollozo. Vito knew that Michael life was destroyed. There is no reversal. There is no out. Michael delayed the narcotics trade from entering in the USA by killing Sollozo. Future earnings were lost, that alone is enough to kill Michael, regardless of what deals transpired at the meeting of the five families. Therefore, Vito must protect Michael, even after his return to Sicily. He did, Michael stayed secured in the Moll.

For me, what made Mike a tragic figure was not that he was a mob figure. In fact, he was the most successful boss on earth. He lost touch on the purpose of the family: To protect and provide for his wife and children and friends. For Micheal that was lost. Other than his father's friends, Michael really had not made any friends that he can call his own to protect. He slowly alienated his wife and children from his life. For the most part, Michael was alone thoughout most of his life. He yearned for love and affection, but had no idea of obtaining it. Hey what can I say, Mike was not a people person.

Well think of this.
If Don Barzizni ahd been kiled b4 he done anything then..
Appolonia would b alive, so would sonny, and there would of been hardly any trouble.
And Sollozo HAD to b killed there was no other safe way.

He was legitimate in GF3. Many have raised the question if he still had button men. I believe he did. He is still a Don, He said," I Command this Family," after the hit on Zasa and his high officials. He choose a suitable successor to run the Corleone Family. So he must have had button Men even though they aren't shown

You have to kill all five heads because it was in their best interest to kill of the Corleones. Barzini was the mastermine because was the smartest. It was the Tat. family, not Barzini that killed Sonny. It was out of revenge for Bruno's death.

At any rate, the five families were coming after Vito and his sons. They had a miss attempt for Michael in Sicily. They were gonna try it again with Tessio help in NYC.

Yeah but Barzini mastermineded sonnys death, Vito says so.
So michael had to make the decisions he did, for the good of his family at the time, and him, its just fate its made him a broken man.

It was the Barzini people that attacked sonny. Not Tattaglia!

Why Didn't they go after Fredo? They went after Sonny and Mike but why not Fredo?

In the film, the objective of the gunmen was to kill Vito and get away quickly, not to kill Fredo. In the novel, Sollozzo says he could have had Fredo killed but didn't because he didn't want any more bloodshed and bad feelings: "Fredo is alive because of me," he tells Michael at the restaurant.
Barzini tried to kill Michael in Sicily because he realized that, by killing Sollozzo and McCluskey, Michael (not Fredo) was Vito's logical succesor. Two other possible reasons for not whacking Fredo: 1) he was under the protection of Don Francesco in Nevada; 2) by letting Fredo live, Barzini would assure that someone weak and stupid (and easy to manipulate) might be at the helm of the Corleones.

Actually I think it was Don Molinari who protected Fredo. And now that I found and read the Novel again The really real reason Barzini didn't go after Fredo was because he had no desire to make more enemies of the other Families fromthe west coast.If Fredo had been killed I think all the west coast Families would have teamed up with the Corleones and fough off the other 4 (NOT FIVE) New York Families.

I believe Turnball and Boss of bosses made strong points in why Fredo wasn't initially killed. I know this is just conjecture, but, if the Five families would have accomplished their objectives in killing Michael at Tessio's sitdown. It stands to reason that Barzini would kill off anyone who will inheit the Corleone family(i.e., Clemenza, Tom and Fredo). This will stop the family from 'rising up from the ashes'. Yes, Fredo as a Don would be a joke. But Fredo can be easily manipulated. Under Don Fredo, his puppet leadership could have been controlled by an outside family. Such as the west coast families.

You raise an interesting point, Deathkiss: what would have happened to Clemenza had Tessio succeeded? Both the novel and the film omit Clemenza from Barzini/Tessio's plans. I'm guessing that Tessio would have had Clemenza killed at the same time as Michael because Clemenza might have remained loyal to Michael and sought revenge. Even if he didn't, he'd have been a rival to head the post-Michael Corleone Family.
Note to BofB: Don Molinari of San Francisco was Fredo's protector in the novel. But in the film, Michael mentions Don Francesco.

He probably becomes an enemy of Tessio. So in that point he would kill him. But they were also good friends. They did a lot together, and it isn't easy to kill your best friend.