Outside of Italy, I mean. Which countries have they infiltrated and commit crimes in. I've heard the Calabrian Mafia practically dominates the cocaine trade in most of Europe. What about the Camorra, Puglian Mafia and the Sicilian Mafia?

The Camorra were in Aberdeen - http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-wor...fia-gang-995387

I defer to many of our more knowledged members but I thought that particularly the Ndraghatta (sorry for bad spelling) was very influential outside of Italy.

Italian and Russian mafia are most powerful groups in Europe.

I'd say the Ndrangheta is the most powerful crime group in all of Europe. They are everywhere. In Belgium there are a lot of Ndrangheta members in (relatively small) villages with a substantial Italian population. In one village particularly there is a pretty powerful clan at work. They are often in a cafe a friend of mine owns.
Oh yeah, and they completely piss on the myth that mobsters dress in sharp suits and solely drive in shiny Lamborghini's. These people just look like thugs They are ( without condoning them) actually pretty friendly, but still do some twisted stuff of course

The ndrangheta controls operations in nothern europe,also France,Spain,Portugal,Belgium but the eastern part of europe is under the thumb of the camorra since they r closely connected with the albanian clans.But dont get me worng for sayin "under the thumb"...other organizations rule also as Strax sad....like the russians

Well I heard in Germany the drug importation is controlled by the Calabrians...Is that correct?

Depends. In terms of cocaine and marihuana the Calabrians own the business.
Heroin...Albanians, Turks, Kurds and Mhallamis go hardcore on that.

Russian Mafiya from Moscow runs shit in Europe. Even the local Latvia groups are forced under Moscow organizations. All Eastern Europe states are Russian infested. Spain has like a shitload of them, but mainly in Spain Russian criminals go on holidays, it's like a resort for them. Sweden and Finland even threathened to close down the Shengen borders because of the large count of Russian criminals immigrating there.

Italian gangs seem to have fairly limited power outside Italy. Camorra and Ndrangheta have a fairly strong presence in Germany, a bit of a presence in parts of France and Spain, and some lucrative alliances in the Balkans, but in all these areas they are less of an influence than Turkish/Kurdish/Albanian/Romanian/Russian gangs.

The top tier of organised crime in Europe is mainly drugs and sex trafficking and these days that almost all arrives in central Europe via Turkey and the Balkans. Those guys are a different breed to Italian gangs. They are more ruthless, more desperate, more loyal and less scared of jail. Corny as it sounds, honour and oaths still mean a lot to many of those guys, particularly the Turks. If the average guy in your gang would happily die to keep his word, or do 30 years rather than break a promise, you've got a pretty powerful crew. Add in the fact that many of these guys grew up in gut-wrenching poverty in Eastern Europe, so a UK or German prison is not as big a deterrent as it would be for you or I.

There's also the idea that there are hardly any 'Little Italy'-type areas in Europe, whereas almost every city in Europe has a Turkish or Eastern European area.

Speaking personally, I live in Dalston/Stoke Newington in East London, which is at the heart of London's Turkish community. I'm English/Sicilian but i may as well live in Istanbul as its SOOO Turkish in this area. I quite like that for the most part, but my point is that organised crime is about as obvious and unspoken here as I imagine it was in NYC's Italian neighborhoods in the 20s or 30s. EVERY single shop here pays protection money and its not all that uncommon to see or hear about shopkeepers being dragged out their shops and beaten up - presumably for not paying up. Grim as it is, just this Saturday afternoon I saw three guys dragging a woman who was clearly a prostitute down the road by her arm. She'd lost her balance and was literally being dragged along. I saw the same three guys getting out a blacked-out Merc about two hours later. They started hammering on the door of a closed nightclub. When nobody answered one of the guys started trying (and failing) to kick down the door. These were fully grown men, in their 30s or 40s, not kids mucking about. And it was about 4pm, and still light, on a busy high street. Absolutely nobody in the local Turkish community says a thing about it. There are no 'speak out against' groups, its generally just accepted as part of life, and other than the odd random raid on a 'social club', the police find it very hard to penetrate. That said, a raid about 10 years ago uncovered a mini torture chamber in one 'social club':
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/organised-crime-the-godfather-of-green-lanes-476208.html

In Germany the Russian organized crime groups are very active too. In the UK, Netherlands, Ireland,...Russian groups have actually very little direct influence even though from time to time they are linked to some prostitution rackets or some scams. In Belgium the 'Russian' ( actually they were mostly Georgians and Ukrainian Jews back in the day ) influence has severely decreased.
Spain is indeed mostly a holiday resort for Russian criminals, although some Georgians have committed some crimes over there. For those interested in Spain : the so-called Costa del Crime is still alive and kicking with Brits involved in almost all criminal activities known to man.
Costa del Crime

I have read stories that Turks/Kurds/Turkish Cypriots go hard in parts of London. Baybasin was active in the Netherlands too. The Arifs were/are also not people to be messed with.

Interesting you live in East London. Are the homegrown British firms from the East End and Southeast still active ? I have read reports about them still being active ( organized crime will never fully die out I guess), but other sources state that although they are still active they don't own everything anymore like they did back in the day. Ever heard about the Hunt firm from Canning Town by the way ?

you forgot bikers, they are very strong in several european countries
anyway italian mafia is present in much more places that you says
in spain the mafias have more than a bit presence, they're very strong
same in south france
in switzerland and germany ndrangheta is the strongest group according to local police chiefs
in belgium is very strong too
although turks have a huge presence because of diaspora, i dont' think they are so organized like you claim, they are mostly involved in low-level crimes
cocaine, marijuana and MD are the biggest business concerning drugs in europe today, heroin is almost dead
definitively i think italian mafia, bikers, russians and albanians are the most powerful groups in europe today
followed by chineses, they are everywhere in europe and allthough not involved in drugs, weapons they are involved stongly in legit crimes

Old school British gangsters are pretty much extinct, still a lot of bank robbers.. a lot of the places in east london that bred all the gangsters are now black neighborhoods.

OC in London is controlled primarily by Turkish and Russian organizations, mainly Turkish IMO, they are ruthless.

Great post mate, especially the part about the Turks controlling East/North London OC, them guys are stone cold killers, I've heard about every shop on several high streets paying protection money, they must be making a fortune cus liek you say they don't have to pay off the police as nobody in the area will snitch.

Would love to see a few documentaries come out about the Turks in London.

In the marihuana biz,the camorra holds the operation cuz of the albanians.The albanian mob controls most of the ganja biz in euro

marijuana is controlled mostly by italians
most of the plants are located over there
albanians controls mostly the ganja traffick versus greece

Well nothing will ever be COMPLETELY extinct I guess. There probably still are British gangsters in London involved in armed robberies, cocaine and xtc trafficking and some protection rackets. But nowhere near to what it once had been. So yeah, in general they have definitely reached their peak.
In Liverpool you still have a lot of British gangsters.

i don't think london is controlled by a particular group, it's just a mix of several groups among them turks and jamaicans seems to be a bit more present
but there is not any group that is a real mafia

Bulgaria,Serbia,MonteNegro,Croatia,Macedonia,Slovenia,Czech republic,Austria,Slovakia,Switzerland,small operations in many other european countries,something like northern Italy,Belgium

I think you've been reading the newspaper too much pal, Jamaicans don't run anything, they never have been big time drug lords they're just street hustlers..everytime someone would get shot to death in the 90's/early 2000's the papers would blame the 'yardies' there is no such thing, they are just individual Jamaican drug dealers...and this generation of black people now are pretty much all english or hail from places like Ghana, the whole 'Yardie' error of crime was a complete myth created by the media.

The only two groups who have any real structural organization are the Turks and Russians, they control things on a huge scale.

yes greece and neighbouring countries mostly, but they are not so big markets anyway
sometimes albaniasn send ganja in italy, if the internal production is not enough for the all market
italy is the biggest markets for cannabis in europe with the highets number of consumers

i wouldn't say jamaicans run anything in london
there are some places like brixton full of them
of course on local scale, but almost all groups in london operate in a local scale, included turks in their neighbourhoods

i dont think russians have a structural organization group in london, anyway it depends what you mean for 'structural'

Pretty much 75% of the Jamaicans in Brixton/London are old men, it's the Jamaican/African's children that run the streets of every predominantly black area in London, little teenagers that run around stabbing and shooting each other, pathetic really.

Yea if youre one of the Rothschilds...

Most of those black gangs in London and Birmingham aren't exactly organized crime. They are mostly a bunch of kids stabbing someone for living in an area with a different postal code.
Organized crime over there are the Turkish/Kurdish heroin traffickers, Russian weapon traffickers and money launderers, Albanian human traffickers and -in the minority homegrown white areas- some British firms involved in armed robbery and drug trafficking. Yardies back in the day did have ( a small minority of) more organized crews, but lately black gangs is indeed all stabbing and almost no money-making.

turkish and kurdish are involved in petty crimes for the most, except some groups involved in heroin traffick
that's coz they don't seem so much organized, at least in europe
in turkey probably they are involved in other fields
the real billions come from money laundering, eu funds, public works and waste disposal
and i think only italians, chineses and russians are very entrenched in this kind of high criminal business around europe

There's lot of members from Russia and Eastern European groups who have immigrated to other countries, not only to facilitate the movement of drugs, arms, prostitutes, etc., but also to live. So it makes them seem more dispersed.

The Italians don't seem to have the same "diaspora." Most remain in their home country and their activities in other countries mostly revolve around the part of the drug trade they control, as well as laundering money in various legitimate businesses.

The Arifs are a slightly different breed to the usual Turkish/ Cypriot gangs from what I can tell. It’s not just that the Arifs are based in south London, not north; they also seem to operate in a way more comparable to the white post-Kray firms (Adams’/Brindles) than the unassimilated Turkish gangs of Stoke Newington / Green Lanes, whose protection rackets and neighbourhood omerta really are comparable with New York mafia in 20s/30s. The Arifs major earning will be from major drug smuggling, fraud etc these days. Can’t imagine they’re involved in much armed robbery or street level stuff. BUT their name is worth a huge amount. Street gangs will readily cut them in on deals just to use their name as an intimidation trick. Incidentally, my parents are from the real outskirts of south London and one of the Arifs (no idea who I’m afraid) lives in a big house nearby. Apparently they seem pretty quiet and respectable, not flashy at all. The funny thing is, loads of the descendants from the Richardson gang also live nearby – like 5 mins walk from the Arifs. They are, shall we say, a little less low key….



I’ve only heard of the Hunt firm, but I don’t really know anything about them I’m afraid. Bit too far east for me to know much about. Will look them up though. Regarding the British firms, I really don’t think there’s anything home grown going on in the old east end (Aldgate/Whitechapel/Bethnal Green/Stepney) anymore. Even when the Krays were around, traditional east enders were leaving London for Essex and North West Kent in droves. Nowadays the whole east end is completely controlled by Bangladeshi and Pakistani gangs, with north east London controlled by the Turks. White families are very much the minority.

There’s a lot more homegrown stuff going on in South London as quite a lot of those areas that took in the families that fled the east end in the decades after world war II have been swallowed up by south London’s ever-creeping suburbs. Lewisham, for example, which was once green and leafy, is now a full-blown traffic clogged hell-hole! The Arifs are the probably the major organised crime family in south London, but there are numerous semi-organised criminal groups, often linked to ex-football hooligans. These guys generally operate as a loose freelance collective, centred on one or two unofficial top guys with the unofficial hierarchy built around level of intimidation and charisma, not formalised like Cosa Nostra.

It’s usually little more than mid-level drug dealing (buying from turks/eastern Europeans and selling on to black gangs at a small profit), amateur armed robbery (usually high street jewellers or sports shops), car theft (cut and shunt) and just crappy stuff like selling stolen goods (Google the phrase: ‘fell of the back of a lorry’). Then there’s always the weird metal theft and melting thing. Most of this crime operates within the manual worker community, with goods bought and sold on building sites and in working class pubs. But to be honest there’s far more violence linked to general drunken idiocy and ‘funny looks’ among these guys than there is as a result of their criminal activities.

Finally, a lot of the old gangs in south London, The Richardsons for example, are still operating, but it’s nothing like it would have been in the 60s. Like I say, a few live close to my parents but most of these guys spend their days intimidating people in pubs and acting like extras in Lock, Stock. Most of the younger guys now work as plumbers or carpenters, and although they’ll dabble in crime, their legit money makes up the bulk of their income