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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: dsbaloo]
#685406
12/25/12 09:35 PM
12/25/12 09:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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One of the co-writers of the article, Scott Burnstein, posts regularly over on the RD. Other than Chicago, Detroit has probably caused the most debates because it's right on the border, so to speak. Some reports list it as still being viable while others don't. That alone would allow one to go one way or the other but there's also the subject of indictments, which there hasn't been many of in recent years. In the debates I mentioned, some will argue that Detroit is unique for one reason or another, and the lack of indictments doesn't matter, but I don't agree. I personally use the same RICO standard to all the families and, even if one can argue the Detroit family is still around, it's hard to argue they're as big or as active as some make them out to be. It's telling that half the article is either about other families or about the history of the Detroit family itself.
If you look closer, the article actually claims there were 30-35 members back in 1996, during the GameTax case, and is now at 40-50 members. This is strange because I can look up articles from that time that cited 30 members at most. And it would be rather surprising if a family, especially one outside New York, could completely go against the trend and increase in size over the last 15+ years. Scott's own 2006 book, Motor City Mafia, cited 25 members. But he explains the 40-50 figure with the two recent ceremonies. I don't know how concrete that info is, if it's just rumor it's been established as fact, but I also find it hard to believe Detroit would have that many guys available to make in recent years.
In my opinion, while there may still be some semblance of an organized family there, they're small - probably no more than 25 members or so - and their activity doesn't extend much beyond bookmaking, loansharking, and whatever legitimate businesses remaining members and associates are into. I would bet anyone good money that, while we may see another gambling case like the one in 2006, we won't see another case in Detroit like the big one in 1996 again. If it already hasn't crossed the "viable" line, Detroit is certainly the next one to do so.
That's my 2 cents.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 12/25/12 09:48 PM.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: dsbaloo]
#685586
12/27/12 12:39 PM
12/27/12 12:39 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,531
pmac
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 6,531
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when i think of detroit. lions, tigers, cars, music, pimps, furs, kid rock eminem, black people, and the greatest show this year hardcore pawn. i want to know how much for one of them minks hanging up. i'd be scared walking in the parking lot thou crazy black chicks, you hear alot of horror stories in detroit. im guessing the mob would be more in the suburbs out there. and im guessing they had a hand in the auto industry so all the grand kids of that family are probaly super rich.
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: NickyEyes1]
#685668
12/27/12 08:22 PM
12/27/12 08:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
jonnynonos
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,156
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Does anyone know where they even operate? Detroit is like 80% black and I don't think Detroit has many Italian neighborhoods. Think it's traditionally been more of an East Side thing. Although I can say for an absolute fact they were still around about 15 years ago. I knew a family. All dead or in jail now. Detroit definitely doesn't have any Italian neighborhoods; it only has a handful of Caucasian neighborhoods (if that any more) but there are some east side suburbs that have heavier Italian populations. Detroit proper is such a circus and so corrupt politically, though, it actually would probably be one of the easiest cities in the country to do business in for the mob in terms of buying contracts etcetra. I'm not saying they ARE, just that even the least competent mobsters on average are more competent than, say, the Detroit City Council.
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: 123JoeSchmo]
#685695
12/27/12 10:28 PM
12/27/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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I think buffalo is virtually extinct at this point. I gotta put detriot above them but that's just my opinion. Other than the suburbs which are basically all white their cant be much money to be made. Whatever operations they do is more than likely bookmaking, loansharking, gambling, and legit businesses. No unions to infiltrate, prob no garbage, construction or anything new York is involved in. But lack of indictments proves whatever they do is small. What you said about the Buffalo family is largely true. I'm saying the Detroit family isn't that much better off.
Last edited by IvyLeague; 12/27/12 10:30 PM.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: dsbaloo]
#685696
12/27/12 10:56 PM
12/27/12 10:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 674
gamms
Was: sitonmyface11
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Was: sitonmyface11
Underboss
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 674
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shylocking is a good way to make money but theres a lot of heat that goes with it.theres a lot of angles,a lot of complications.etcetera...
this is how it has always worked where i come from.theoretically of coarse.lol.
say you [dsbaloo] want to borrow ten grand from me.typical vig on ten is three. the 'rule of thumb' i go by is under a grand is five to ten points.one or two is four or five...depending on how much of a sucker you are..lol. connected guys,family,friends, always get a discount.but dont give them a loan unless you have to...fucks up relationships. five grand and up i wouldnt charge more than three points to any body. above twenty if you agree to three points,your a fucking moron. the best customers are books and biz men.hands down. it sounds cruel,but they have some collateral if they cant pay. its a good idea to have a 'arrangment' with a book.this way he refers all his 'losers' to your business. for the actual money?its easy. in brooklyn,if you put moneys on the street without being 'on the record' your asking to get beaten,robbed, and shook down.lol. if you do have a crew behind you you go to your 'guy'.if he doesnt have it he goes to the 'skip'. the money is 'passed down' and the loan itself is put 'on the record'. this serves two purposes.one,you cant get fucked over at a sit down,because your skipper can say the loan is 'legitimate'. and two your 'guy' is getting an envelope every week from you. back to the example...say you borrowed a ten from me,and i dont have it[even if i did i would rather go to the 'guy'] i get it at one and a half from my 'friend' while i give it to you at three.just vig [pure profit] im keeping one fifty a week from one customer. if my guy got it from his 'skip' hes paying a point while im paying two.but this isnt bad from your stand point,because the skipper is seeing an envelope every week that he associates with you. your skipper is supposed to be the 'bank'.some times it doesnt work that way and you have to ask a different guy for the loan. guys like tommy karate always was being 'chased' by some one..and he had his 'fair share' of juice loans him self,but thats just a notable example...i could go on for ever.lol.
guys like oneil,the pope,wild bill,...etc... these guys had huge shy businesses.and when i say huge,remember that i have seen some my share of shylocks.lol. the big guys,are more 'banks' than anything.
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: gamms]
#685699
12/27/12 11:10 PM
12/27/12 11:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 541
dsbaloo
OP
Underboss
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OP
Underboss
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 541
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shylocking is a good way to make money but theres a lot of heat that goes with it.theres a lot of angles,a lot of complications.etcetera...
this is how it has always worked where i come from.theoretically of coarse.lol.
say you [dsbaloo] want to borrow ten grand from me.typical vig on ten is three. the 'rule of thumb' i go by is under a grand is five to ten points.one or two is four or five...depending on how much of a sucker you are..lol. connected guys,family,friends, always get a discount.but dont give them a loan unless you have to...fucks up relationships. five grand and up i wouldnt charge more than three points to any body. above twenty if you agree to three points,your a fucking moron. the best customers are books and biz men.hands down. it sounds cruel,but they have some collateral if they cant pay. its a good idea to have a 'arrangment' with a book.this way he refers all his 'losers' to your business. for the actual money?its easy. in brooklyn,if you put moneys on the street without being 'on the record' your asking to get beaten,robbed, and shook down.lol. if you do have a crew behind you you go to your 'guy'.if he doesnt have it he goes to the 'skip'. the money is 'passed down' and the loan itself is put 'on the record'. this serves two purposes.one,you cant get fucked over at a sit down,because your skipper can say the loan is 'legitimate'. and two your 'guy' is getting an envelope every week from you. back to the example...say you borrowed a ten from me,and i dont have it[even if i did i would rather go to the 'guy'] i get it at one and a half from my 'friend' while i give it to you at three.just vig [pure profit] im keeping one fifty a week from one customer. if my guy got it from his 'skip' hes paying a point while im paying two.but this isnt bad from your stand point,because the skipper is seeing an envelope every week that he associates with you. your skipper is supposed to be the 'bank'.some times it doesnt work that way and you have to ask a different guy for the loan. guys like tommy karate always was being 'chased' by some one..and he had his 'fair share' of juice loans him self,but thats just a notable example...i could go on for ever.lol.
guys like oneil,the pope,wild bill,...etc... these guys had huge shy businesses.and when i say huge,remember that i have seen some my share of shylocks.lol. the big guys,are more 'banks' than anything. Thanks for breaking that down for me. You explained it well.. I guess I never looked at any of the "positives" of the shy business. For some reason to me I've always thought of all the bad shit.. I guess its cause I only know deadbeats.. But let's say you get money passed down from a skip and its on record.. Say you loan it to some dipshit and he doesn't come up with any of the points he owes, just excuses.. What the hell do you tell your guy and the skip when you can't pay them their points? Or you can but they're coming out of your pocket?
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: dsbaloo]
#685703
12/27/12 11:35 PM
12/27/12 11:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 319
SEAN_SOUTH
Capo
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Capo
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 319
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How about that border through Windsor-Detroit? The busiest crossing along the Canadian border and with the Montreal mob known to be actively involved in distribution along the border shouldn't the Detroit guys be making the most of this action too. That's where the cabbage is, right? It was a very busy border dating back to prohibition and the Detroit family made use of it then why not now? there's any number of things going through this border that could bring packages with good tidings for the few wise men of Detroit or whatever it is that is left in the city these days. The Canadian guys are allegedly involved with the port there. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/09/28/wdr-mafia-drugs-windsor-montreal.html
'So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” Anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family.'
George Carlin
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: SEAN_SOUTH]
#685719
12/28/12 01:19 AM
12/28/12 01:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
IvyLeague
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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How about that border through Windsor-Detroit? The busiest crossing along the Canadian border and with the Montreal mob known to be actively involved in distribution along the border shouldn't the Detroit guys be making the most of this action too. That's where the cabbage is, right? It was a very busy border dating back to prohibition and the Detroit family made use of it then why not now? there's any number of things going through this border that could bring packages with good tidings for the few wise men of Detroit or whatever it is that is left in the city these days. The Canadian guys are allegedly involved with the port there. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/story/2012/09/28/wdr-mafia-drugs-windsor-montreal.html Apparently not. I can't even remember the last time somebody in the Detroit mob was busted for drugs.
Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: dsbaloo]
#685724
12/28/12 03:28 AM
12/28/12 03:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 27
Detroit
Wiseguy
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Wiseguy
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 27
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Here's MY two cents. I'm actually from Detroit's suburbs. Suburbs like, Ypsilanti, Garden City, Westland, Wayne, Troy, Inkster, Redford, Taylor, etc are always in the news. Every now and then you hear about a truck getting hijacked, 9 times out of 10 the hijackers aren't found. But when they are found they're usually black, or it's not released. Also, a fun fact; a person in my area shares the same last name as the mobster from Detroit, Paul Vitale. I'm pretty sure it's a common Italian last name, but here's a picture of Vitale too. 
Last edited by Detroit; 12/28/12 03:34 AM.
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Re: article on detriot family? how true is it?
[Re: gamms]
#685744
12/28/12 09:38 AM
12/28/12 09:38 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,205
Your Mom's House
Jimmy_Two_Times
Underboss
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Underboss
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,205
Your Mom's House
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shylocking is a good way to make money but theres a lot of heat that goes with it.theres a lot of angles,a lot of complications.etcetera...
this is how it has always worked where i come from.theoretically of coarse.lol.
say you [dsbaloo] want to borrow ten grand from me.typical vig on ten is three. the 'rule of thumb' i go by is under a grand is five to ten points.one or two is four or five...depending on how much of a sucker you are..lol. connected guys,family,friends, always get a discount.but dont give them a loan unless you have to...fucks up relationships. five grand and up i wouldnt charge more than three points to any body. above twenty if you agree to three points,your a fucking moron. the best customers are books and biz men.hands down. it sounds cruel,but they have some collateral if they cant pay. its a good idea to have a 'arrangment' with a book.this way he refers all his 'losers' to your business. for the actual money?its easy. in brooklyn,if you put moneys on the street without being 'on the record' your asking to get beaten,robbed, and shook down.lol. if you do have a crew behind you you go to your 'guy'.if he doesnt have it he goes to the 'skip'. the money is 'passed down' and the loan itself is put 'on the record'. this serves two purposes.one,you cant get fucked over at a sit down,because your skipper can say the loan is 'legitimate'. and two your 'guy' is getting an envelope every week from you. back to the example...say you borrowed a ten from me,and i dont have it[even if i did i would rather go to the 'guy'] i get it at one and a half from my 'friend' while i give it to you at three.just vig [pure profit] im keeping one fifty a week from one customer. if my guy got it from his 'skip' hes paying a point while im paying two.but this isnt bad from your stand point,because the skipper is seeing an envelope every week that he associates with you. your skipper is supposed to be the 'bank'.some times it doesnt work that way and you have to ask a different guy for the loan. guys like tommy karate always was being 'chased' by some one..and he had his 'fair share' of juice loans him self,but thats just a notable example...i could go on for ever.lol.
guys like oneil,the pope,wild bill,...etc... these guys had huge shy businesses.and when i say huge,remember that i have seen some my share of shylocks.lol. the big guys,are more 'banks' than anything. An excellent explanation.
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