Some guys may know some other guys, and there may be some familial relations but I'm hard pressed to think of any real business connections. Bonanno soldier Vincent "Elmo" Amarante operated a strip club in Chicago back in the late 1990's/early 2000's but I'm not sure if the Outfit had a piece of that or anything.

The mob really doesn't have the nationwide union presence to need intersecting interests between New York and Chicago today. The same can be said about the "open territories" of the past.

I am aware of the Amarante adventure in Chicago, the Outfit most likely gave their blessing/got a small cut from his operations.

The mob doesnt really have any national racket that stretches from the west to the east that would require the intersecting cooperation of the Outfit and NY for its function. Not like the old days.

I think his point is exactly what you're saying. An associate in Chicago is different than one in New York. So an associate in New York would be a soldier in Chicago. And an associate in Chicago would be...

We're saying very different things. He's coming up with his own terms and definitions in order to pad the numbers. All I know is that the FBI didn't bother to differentiate between "made members" and "soldiers" back in 2007. And even if somebody wants to pull their own wording out of thin air, that doesn't change the fact that the feds cited what they did - 28 made members and a little over 100 associates. So this "40 made members, 120 soldiers, and several hundred associates" isn't going to fly.

Ivy, you're right. The Outfit is weak and practically doesn't exist in Chicago. There is no difference in the structure and terminology between New York and Chicago. The Feds Know everything about including that the Boss of the Outfit in 1986 was Joe Ferriola, not Sam Carlisi. The 5 New York Families are the greatest and the little weak Outfit couldn't compare to any of them. You're Right. I agree with you.

Pete, is that you?

Completely wrong. See the other thread for correction. You are confused about the differences in Structure and terminology. My 10 points on the other thread are my final say on how big of a dick the rat infested disorganized Colombo family is in New York where everybody and his brother is a made guy.

Don here is some advice...completely ignore every post this fuck Ivy writes and continue to provide good info you are as more posters are paying attention to you than him.

No need for a personal attack here.

So much of the outfit's so called power is the Chicago and Illinois political machine itself. It's been absorbed into the fabric of every town council and chamber of commerce surrounding the city. Are the guys wearing sharkskin suits and hanging out in a club with painted windows anymore...not so much.

As the neighborhoods have changed and diluted so have the Italian street gangs of the Patch, Taylor St. and Bridgeport. Roseland's Italian's broke in two and moved to South Holland and Chicago Heights and now even those places and people have been diluted as the Americanization continues. Don "The Wizard of Odds" Angelini's kid is a middle-aged lawyer for example and Angelini himself was college educated.

But nevertheless they are there, still to this day. Diminished in some areas maybe, involved in bigger and better hidden things DEFINITELY. The guys I banged around with in the Heights and Cal City could only tell me how the neighborhood USED TO BE, and even their stories were hand me downs by the time I heard them. The contract rigging continues, the guys that have switches to turn the odometers off in their city and municipal vehicles continue, the droves of Joey Baggadonuts cops and streets and san workers continue. The no shows, the college kids who get great jobs over the Summer...

Eventually even the Italians woke up declared some taxes and stopped stuffing their jack in the mattress and did things to enter the legitimate world and kept stealing. Ah America!