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WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? #681993
12/08/12 02:15 AM
12/08/12 02:15 AM
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Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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ronnierocketAGO Offline OP
ronnierocketAGO  Offline OP
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A month after assuming the Presidency after Nixon resigned over the Watergate scandal, Gerald Ford pardoned him for all crimes he might have committed. Ford claimed he issued it because 70% (in his words) of this new President's work was being taken up dealing with Watergate. Also that the inevitable Nixon trial would've continued to distract the nation (and government) as a media sideshow.

I've heard since forever how this fateful decision allegedly cost Ford re-election in '76.

But I ask all those who were around back then: Did it really? I covered that election's WHAT IF? in another thread awhile back. From what I understand of that election, the economy was sorta going down the shitter (and even more later that decade), the stench of Watergate still in the air, Ford had a bruising primary fight against Reagan, Ford fucked up in the debate regarding Soviet domination of Poland (or claiming they didn't), and Jimmy Carter the first potentially Southern elected President since Andrew Jackson seemed to be the perfect counterstrike to Nixon's Southern Strategy

Yet in spite of all that, Ford almost won. Maybe another week or two, he might've prevailed since he was coming back strong at the tail end. In a way he reminds one of Hubert Humphrey's near comeback against the incredible odds stacked against him in '68.

Anyway, Unstated it seemes very obvious Ford wanted to get rid of this Nixon mess ASAP so to immunize the Republicans in '76 and try to move on from that scandal. Nixon in the courtroom in '76 would've been the worst possible election ad. Bite the bullet now and you'll recover by 2 years later. Of course it can be argued if he thought this, this sorta backfired with the public perception that this pardoned was part of some shadey deal to coerce Nixon to resign. Not to mention I've read arguments that the pardon was too broad for a politician-turned-civilian who wasn't charged with a crime yet (much less convicted), which did Ford no favors regarding that alleged storyline. If Ford had attached specific conditions to that pardon, maybe a Henry Hill deal of you tell us the whole truth and cooperate. One lie and you go to jail?

Of course, would Nixon have accepted that pardon? (Believe it or not, the Supreme Court ruled that you're not required to accept Presidential pardons if offered.) Also if he was charged with crimes and went to trial, what would've he been charged with? Obstruction of Justice seems the most obvious, and on the Federal level that carries what? I've read 5 years but I don't know these things. Would he have negotiated a plea bargain with the prosecutors, or would his personality have prevented him from giving up/admitting guilt? I could even see a convicted Nixon be issued Clemency by Ford (or whoever is President in the late 70s) before serving hardtime. I'm reminded of George W. Bush giving Dick Cheney's former aide "Scooter" Libby clemency (instead of the pardon Cheney wanted) after his conviction but before going to jail.

Better yet, would Nixon have lived to see a verdict? The Watergate scandal took a massive toll (according to anecdotal evidence) on his physical and mental health, didn't help this happened to a guy notably fatalist in the first place. Several close confidants were even afraid he might contemplate suicide. I don't believe this hypothetical trial circus would've made him do that, but I could easily see the stress and worry of jailtime (and further disgrace) killing him.

But lets say Ford doesn't pardon Nixon. Fuck him, let him eat the broth he cooked. Does this improve or decrease his electoral chances in '76? Does he even win his party's nomination? Would he even try? What about the GOP as a whole that year? Would Jimmy Carter have even been the Democratic candidate that year? (Jerry Brown instead?)

Imagine if Nixon did go to jail, him in his orange jumpsuit. He wouldn't be in maximum security obviously, but imagine if he did. Flacked by U.S. Marshals as the only U.S. President to ever go to jail, he could even start up his own prison gang with black gangbangers, Latino hustlers, the local gay dragqueen inmates. They would be the Silent Minority, and rule that jail.

"You aint got Dick Nixon to kick around anymore, bitch!"

Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #682070
12/08/12 01:28 PM
12/08/12 01:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
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AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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Ford did the right thing, but he did it in the wrong way. Waiting until a Sunday morning to issue the pardon in a very quiet way just raised people's suspicions of a shady deal. He was right to want to put Watergate and Nixon behind him and get onto the business of governing and moving the country forward. But he didn't really get an apology or explanation from Nixon. And, many others implicated in Watergate didn't get anywhere near the same break.

Justice was not really served. But, nothing good would have come out of making a three-ring circus of putting Nixon on trial, calling witnesses, etc. He might even have looked like a pitiful martyr.

Certainly the pardon hurt Ford's re-election prospects. So did his humiliating appearance before the House Judiciary Committee--he didn't have to appear (executive privilege), but his well-intentioned appearance subjected him to all sorts of unPresidential abuse. It was an early example, of many to come, that showed Americans that Ford wasn't really Presidential material. He lost through an accumulation of bad moves.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: Turnbull] #682074
12/08/12 01:39 PM
12/08/12 01:39 PM
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Texas
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olivant Offline
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Also keep in mind his disasterous debate performance when he tried to maintain that eastern Europe was not dominated by the Soviet Union. It was a combination of things including Carter's claim thathe was an outsider and not a Washington insider which Ford was.


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Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #682085
12/08/12 03:09 PM
12/08/12 03:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Pennsylvania
If Nixon hadn't been pardoned after his resignation, he would have been charged in federal court with multiple counts of obstruction of justice and criminal conspiracy. The evidence against him was overwhelming; most notably the tapes that he fought so hard to to keep, were damning.

I believe that Nixon, who was no dummy, would have seen the writing on the wall and entered a plea of no contest for an agreement of two to three years imprisonment to be served on a military base.

Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: olivant] #682086
12/08/12 03:10 PM
12/08/12 03:10 PM
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New York
SC Offline
Consigliere
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Ford was very politically savvy and as Turnbull pointed out he was right in trying to put Watergate behind us but the country was ripe for a complete change (from Nixon era politics).

It didn't help that Ford appeared as a bumbling doofus (falling down a lot). LBJ best described Ford: "He played too much football without his helmet on".


.
Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: SC] #682087
12/08/12 03:13 PM
12/08/12 03:13 PM
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Throggs Neck
pizzaboy Offline
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Originally Posted By: SC
It didn't help that Ford appeared as a bumbling doofus (falling down a lot). LBJ best described Ford: "He played too much football without his helmet on".



"I got news for you. If it wasn't for the toilet, there would be no books." --- George Costanza.
Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: pizzaboy] #682089
12/08/12 03:19 PM
12/08/12 03:19 PM
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California
The Italian Stallionette Offline
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I can understand "why" Ford pardoned Nixon but disagree with it. I think he should have been punished and MOST of the public thought so too.

As far as Ford goes, I saw him as a nice, down to earth guy, but to me came off as sort of "half there". Maybe LBJ was right, he didn't wear his helmet much when he played football, I don't know. lol




TIS

Last edited by The Italian Stallionette; 12/08/12 03:20 PM.

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Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #682108
12/08/12 05:18 PM
12/08/12 05:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 11,797
Pennsylvania
klydon1 Offline
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Ford had considered running for president in 1980, and when asked, "On a scale from 1 to 10 what are your chances of running," Ford answered, "fifty-fifty." It didn't help shed his bumbling image.

Ford was actually Reagan's top choice for VP at the 1980 GOP convention, but when Ford went on national tv and described a co-presidency and even suggested cabinet appointments, Reagan nixed Ford as a running mate and hurriedly called H.W. Bush.

On a positive note for Ford he was the most accomplished athlete of all of our presidents.

Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: olivant] #682126
12/08/12 09:28 PM
12/08/12 09:28 PM
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AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Originally Posted By: olivant
Also keep in mind his disasterous debate performance when he tried to maintain that eastern Europe was not dominated by the Soviet Union. It was a combination of things including Carter's claim thathe was an outsider and not a Washington insider which Ford was.

Yes, Oli, Carter's "outsider" claim was a very important contributing factor to his win. But, Carter should have seen it for what it was--a campaign tactic. As President, he became the ultimate insider.

Instead, Carter's "outsider" persona became a warm, safe place for him to retreat when the going got tough. The worst part: in '79, with the Shah deposed, oil shortages and violence at the pumps, and 66 Americans held hostage by the Iranian crazies, Carter took off for a week at Camp David, incommunicado, speaking with unknown parties--in effect, abdicating the Presidency for a week. And when he returned, he went on TV with that smug, sanctimonious smirk on his puss and revealed what he'd learned: "Washington is out of touch." I practically threw my shoe at the TV. Who did he think "Washington" was, if not him?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #682132
12/08/12 10:18 PM
12/08/12 10:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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ronnierocketAGO Offline OP
ronnierocketAGO  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
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East Tennessee
Playing for Michigan in a game against University of Chicago, Ford actually tackled Jay Berwanger, the first Heisman trophy winner and the very first #1 NFL Draft pick.

After graduating from Michigan, Ford was invited to tryout for the Lions and Packers but instead accepted a coaching position at Yale and went to their Law School. Hit a Hole in One at a Pro-Am event in '77.

At Yale, he first got into politics by helping to found the infamous Isolationist group America First Committee along future Peace Corps director/Vice-Presidential nominee Sargent Shriver and future U.S. Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart. (Ford attended one of Charles Lindbergh's nationally broadcasted radio speeches.)

Of course he was also a member of the Warren Commission and directly blamed the CIA destroying documents or withholding them from the Commission for why the Warren Report comes off as colluding with the CIA. He never wavered from his belief in the single gunman theory as was the last surviving Commission member. After Ford died, declassified FBI memos showed Ford snitched for them on two of his fellow Commission members.

Ford served in the House of Representatives representing Grand Rapids for 25 years, 8 as House Minority Leader. He turned down chances to run for Governor and Senate because he had hoped to someday become Speaker of the House, but his party never won the majority of seats in that chamber. A busy legislator, in spite of never authoring any significant bill. He was ML in the Eighty-ninth Congress, where a whopping 96%(!) of bills submitted were passed.

Inoffensive and unpretentious, well-liked by members of both parties. This probably why Nixon picked him to replace the disgraced Agnew as Vice-President, for confirmation would be quick and painless. Nixon initially wanted John Connally, but Congressional leaders including Speaker of the House (and Democrat) Carl Albert pushed for Ford. Ford accepted the offer only because he had planned to retire in '77 and figured this unexpected elevation would be a good end for his political career.

I remember reading an anecdote from Woodward/Bernstein's THE FINAL DAYS where on Tuesday, August 6 Ford that day finally was told by the Nixon White House that the President would resign on Friday. Ford's old friend and law firm partner Philip W. Buchen (later Ford's White House Counsel) came over that night for dinner. Afterwards Ford was swimming at his backyard pool and passively told Buchen as matter of fact that he would be President in less than 3 days. (And only after they talked about the mowing job that one of Ford's sons was doing at the time.) lol

Ford was the longest living President, dying at 93. He's the only Eagle Scout to become President. He also is the highest-ranking Republican to have endorsed full legal equality for Gays and Lesbians. Until his death, he had privately and publicly been gaining support for a Federal anti-gay job discrimination bill which still hasn't been passed.

Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: Turnbull] #682133
12/08/12 10:25 PM
12/08/12 10:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 13,145
East Tennessee
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ronnierocketAGO Offline OP
ronnierocketAGO  Offline OP
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Joined: Oct 2004
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East Tennessee
Originally Posted By: Turnbull

Yes, Oli, Carter's "outsider" claim was a very important contributing factor to his win. But, Carter should have seen it for what it was--a campaign tactic. As President, he became the ultimate insider.

Instead, Carter's "outsider" persona became a warm, safe place for him to retreat when the going got tough. The worst part: in '79, with the Shah deposed, oil shortages and violence at the pumps, and 66 Americans held hostage by the Iranian crazies, Carter took off for a week at Camp David, incommunicado, speaking with unknown parties--in effect, abdicating the Presidency for a week. And when he returned, he went on TV with that smug, sanctimonious smirk on his puss and revealed what he'd learned: "Washington is out of touch." I practically threw my shoe at the TV. Who did he think "Washington" was, if not him?


I remember Dubya in his 2nd term (can't remember the issue/occassion) calling himself a Washington Outsider and Bill Maher ridiculed him on the concept that our Head of State and Government could play that card.

Obama played this card too symbolically by running his re-election campaign not from D.C. but Chicago.

Re: WHAT IF...Nixon wasn't Pardoned? [Re: ronnierocketAGO] #682428
12/10/12 01:05 PM
12/10/12 01:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
goombah Offline
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For those of you interested, "The Final Days" is a fascinating read to the final year of the Nixon presidency. The Ford storyline is interwoven as events spiraled out of control for Nixon. Ford was a Nixon apologist until several damning tapes came out undermining Nixon's public position. These tapes proved Nixon mislead the public, many of his own staff, and his family. It was not until this happened that Ford distanced himself from Nixon, realizing that Nixon could not survive.

Ford's pardon was a weak move by an extremely weak politician. He had no business being a vice president, let alone assuming the role of lead of the free world. "Final Days" discussed meetings with Al Haig and other cabinet members who would have to "dumb down" things for a Ford presidency.

From what I have read, the two individuals most responsible for leading the U.S. out of the Watergate abyss were Alexander Haig and Henry Kissinger.

Nixon should have gone to prison for the cover-up. His most trusted advisors, including Haldeman, Colson, Howard Hunt, Ehrlichman all went to jail for the same crimes. But I don't think Nixon could have withstood a trial. He was too far gone emotionally when he left office. I believe that he would have died of a stroke or heart attack from the stress.


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