Obviously The Mob in the U.S was at its peak during the 1950s/1960s. Do you think the Mob in America during that time is more powerful than the mob in Italy/Sicily today? Or do you think they are always more powerful no matter what.

The Sicilian's have always been the best because they are good at being low key. Maybe the American Mob looked strong but the Sicilian's weren't even touched to be looked at, anyone who tried to go against them was murdered. Even informants now will be killed unlike the American families.

you can not compare with the Sicilian Mafia Mafia American, for a number of reasons:
the Sicilian Mafia by the late nineteenth century, indiscriminately killing cops, politicians, men, women and children that anyone who gets in it way;
Until maxi trial 1986, the Mafia did not exist;
the Mafia until 1992 and even now killed all the judges and politicians at all levels who opposed to them, the American Mafia came near it, when Gotti proposed to kill Giuliani;
To 1993 to 1995 has carried out a campaign of terrorist acts throughout Italy;
the mafia kills all the relatives of the traitors (Buscetta lost 14 relatives in a year);
has forced the Italian government to sign an agreement sai d the ''Papiello'' to stop the slaughter, with the help of the deviated secret services;
played a role in the global world traffic of drug until it was recently ousted by the Ndrangheta.
And I could say many more but these are the most important

- You're right. Anybody who tries to stop The Sicilian's get murdered. The American's just leave them even with RATS. The Five Families put a contract on a rat and don't even do the killing, haha.

"Who are we, miserable men, that we claim the right to execute our fellows, our brothers, to substitute to Almighty God in giving death? Crazy, only crazy "
(Leonardo Vitale)


Leonardo Vitale (Palermo, June 27, 1941 - Palermo, December 2, 1984) was an Italian criminal tied to Cosa Nostra and is considered the first Mafia pentito after Melchiorre Allegra ..

Called the Joe Valachi of Altarello of Baida, in 1960, became a man of honor. In March 1973 he denounced many bosses, including Toto Riina, Pippo Calo, Rosario Riccobono and Vito Ciancimino to the police, asking to speak only with Bruno Contrada, then head of the investigation section of the Mobile Squad, but later convicted of external complicity in mafia. After being subjected to numerous psychiatric expert, was imprisoned for 10 years in the insane asylum of Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto, in the province of Messina. After two months since the day of return to freedom, was killed leaving a church, before the family.
Leonardo (Leuccio) is the first "real" Mafia pentio for reasons of conscience. After his conversion he has sought only the truth and no one wanted to believe him, has not either tried to hide; attended daily Mass at the Church of the Capuchins in Palermo, where a Sunday at the exit was killed.


"He was released in June 1984, was killed a few months later, on December 2, while returning from Sunday mass. Unlike the Justice of the State, the Mafia felt the importance of his revelations and punished him relentlessly for having violated the law of omerta.
It is hoped that, at least after his death, Vitale has the credit they deserved and deserve. '

(Giovanni Falcone, Maxi Trial in Palermo 1986 )


Vitale was considered insane because in 1973 he explained the links between the mafia and the state. and since then the Mafia did not exist, he was considered mentally ill and stayed for 10 years in asylum, given electric shocks when it came out and was killed only after the maxi-trial in 1986 he was recognized his merit.
opposite Henry Hill, Salvatore Gravano, Vincent Palermo, even if they left the witness protection program, Hill at the end of the 80s, was not killed, Gravano was sentenced to 20 years for selling ecstasy could easily be killed in prison, but it is still alive, Vincet Palermo is doing the good life in texas without hiding, if we were in Italy, they would have died on the first occasion

from wikipedia in english,i don't see it first



Sicilian Mafioso Leonardo Vitale, left, during a Mafia trial in 1977

Leonardo Vitale (Palermo, June 27, 1941 - Palermo, December 2, 1984) was a member of the Sicilian Mafia who was one of the first to become an informant, or pentito, although originally his confessions were not taken seriously. Vitale was a man of honour or member of the Altarello di Baida cosca or family, Altarello being a small village just outside of Palermo. The Vitale family had a long history of Mafia membership and Leonardo himself was groomed by his uncle and presented for membership into Cosa Nostra in order to continue his family's Mafia tradition.[citation needed]

Confession

He walked in to a Palermo police station on the evening of March 29, 1973, and declared that he was a member of the Mafia and confessed to various acts of extortion, arson and two homicides.[1] In front of dumbfounded police officers he explained how a Mafia family is organised and revealed the existence of the Mafia Commission, long before the pentito Tommaso Buscetta exposed Mafia secrets to judges who were prepared to listen.[2]

Vitale said he joined the Mafia at nineteen at the behest of his uncle. He proved his willingness to kill by shooting a horse and subsequently he murdered a rival mafioso. He went on to take part in extorting and intimidating landowners and shopkeepers, and later carried out a second killing. Vitale would eventually rise to the rank of capo-decina or captain within the crime family, leading a crew of picciotti or soldati, otherwise known as soldiers. In explaining why he had turned himself in, something that was unheard of from a mafioso at that point, Vitale claimed to have had a spiritual crisis and wanted to unburden himself. Whilst held in custody he smeared excrement on himself and practised self mutilation as his own act of contrition.[2]

While testifying against his fellow Mafiosi, Vitale reminisced about his life: "I have made a fool of my life, by the evil that has rained on me from the time I was a child... My sin was having being born into a Mafia family and of having lived in a society where everyone is a Mafioso and are respected for it; while those who are not are treated with contempt."[3][4]

His case came to trial in 1977. Vitale's testimony lead to a number of alleged mobsters being indicted, but all were acquitted when their defence lawyers cast doubt on Vitale's mental state by pointing out his self-mutilation and other odd habits. In the end only Vitale and his mafioso uncle were imprisoned, and Vitale spent most of his time in a mental asylum.[1][2]

Legacy

In early 1984 Tommaso Buscetta became an informant and gave a vast amount of information on the Mafia in Sicily that subsequently backed up a lot of Vitale's own testimony.

In the light of this, Vitale was declared sane and released in June 1984. On December 2 that year he was shot dead as he left a church after attending Mass with his mother and sister.[2][5] No-one was convicted of his murder but there remains little doubt the Mafia were behind it.

Vitale's original written testimony was used in the Maxi Trial several years later, where Magistrate Giovanni Falcone declared that "it is to be hoped that at least after his death Vitale will get the credence he deserved."[2] According to Falcone the Mafia understood the importance of Vitale's revelations much better than the Italian justice system at the time and killed him when the moment was most opportune.[1]

i think that in the 50s/60s at its peak the american mafia was more powerful, for the simple fact that it was very powerful in the most powerful country
i think at that time it was the msot powerful crime group worldwide

I think you're probably right about that, m2w. They had political connections as far as the White House at that time. But today I'd have to say it's the native Italian groups as a whole (Camorra, 'Ndrangheta, Mafia, etc.).

The American Mafia just isn't cohesive enough at this point (not to mention not nearly as violent as they were back then). If there was still a Commission, then maybe they could give them a run for their money (and that's a big maybe).

It's apples and oranges, anyway. The Italian Mafia is basically still what is was about last century. What remains of the American Mafia is mostly about money today.

of course i said it was more powerful only when it was at its peak, before and after that period the italian mafia in italy was more powerful

And I agreed, buddy .

Sicilian Mafia, 'Ndrangheta and Camorra are much more powerfull today than the American LCN has ever been. In southern Italy, they represent a feudal-like authority that controls the entire region in which Mafia and omertà are deeply rooted in culture and history. That's where their power comes from. In America, mafia has always been alien to the dominant cultural milieu, it was a just a thing of an immigrant group which was through time assimilated to Americanism. Sure, at its height American LCN was powerfull, but that was due to specific historical circumstances that will never be repeated again. It was never going to last. It took few decades of FBI pressure to severely weaken the mob. We all know how weak American LCN is today. If at its peak in the 50s the Italian-American mob was really as powerfull or even more powerfull than Italian organized crime (in Italy) is today, then it would still be a force now, but we all know it's not, it's full of rats and has no real muscle anymore, LCN families can't even kill the known rats as it was already pointed out. In Italy, Mafia survived 2 decades of totalitarian Fascist regime which was in war with organized crime. Imagine the US government doing to LCN what the fascist did in southern Italy, the American LCN wouldn't last a month, even at its peak. In 50 years time, I'm sure Sicilian Mafia will still be strong. No way they'll be as weak as the American LCN is now. IMO the strenght of American Mafia is a bit overrated because of movies like Godfather

I apoligize if i've misinterpreted your comment but are you actually boasting about a higher crime rate? Whether true or not?

Why would I boast about what mafia does in Italy? I don't even live there. It's just a fact that it's stronger there than in the US. This can hardly be disputed.

i don't think anybody doubts who is more powerful, italian oc hands down. with that said, yes, lcn is not what it once was, however they are still the dominant force in oc in the capital of the world, nyc. comparing italian oc to american lcn isn't really a valid comparision. organized crime in america, especially today, is about as diverse as you can get. lcn is only one piece of the puzzel, where as in italy homegrown groups dominate everything.

of course the mafia in italy is stronger than the mafia in the states
but i think that in the period when it was at its peak, in the 40s, 50s and 60s, the american mafia was probably more powerful
just because it was very powerful in the most important country worldwide

I agree with you Five_Felonies, although OC in USA vs Italy is not a valid comparison either, if anything we can compare USA and Europe/EU, where Italians are also only one piece of the puzzle. USA are quite efficient when dealing with organized crime which can't be said about the majority of European countries. In many countries the problem is not recognized and some countries are just corrupt, like in the Balkans. That's why IMO OC thrives better in Europe. Not only Italian organizations but also Russian, Serbian, Albanian and Turkish mob, hell even Corsican mob is strong. Serbian OC, for example, in 2003 assasinated Zoran Dzindzic, prime minister of Serbia and probably all here know how strong Russian and Albanian mobs are. Kosovo has been labeled as "Europe's Mafia State". This is what happened in my country recently: https://reportingproject.net/occrp/index...-acquits-leader I can never imagine that these guys would be acquitted in the USA, but in Europe many countries have absolutely no experience when it comes to dealing with OC (Italy is an exception, but OC is present all over Europe, remember those shootings in Germany some years ago, all kinds of gangsters in Spain involved in drug business etc.), just like America was in the beginning. On the other hand, in the US there are stronger and more violent street gangs and prison gangs.

That's a valid argument and I was thinking about that too. But did the mafia really have connections all the way to the White House as at was already mentioned in this thread? How strong were those connections? In Italy, Camorra historically had connections with Italian Christian Democracy and 'Ndrangheta was always close to Italian Freemasonry. But obviously, Italy is Italy and USA are USA, I agree here.

You could be right here but we also have to consider that mafia's peak was destined to be short-lived, simply because American LCN was a thing of a small immigrant group (when compared to the size of the entire American population, Italian-Americans are marginal) which was going to be assimilated into American culture sooner or later. I'd guess that Italian-Americans today have no intention to join mafia families and are simply not born into this culture of omerta. I mean, most members of LCN families are quite old.