No kiddin? You got first hand of this info in the sack? Interesting

Perfect thanks, interesting stuff. It's always the quiet ones.

It was a joke. Man, I gotta use those smileys more .

Barnes stated in his testimony from the presidents commission on organised crime back in 1985 that he wasn't really sure what family madonna belonged to but that he mentioned a few names.perhaps he didn't associate with one family in particular back then.

It's more probable that he just didn't care enough to find out. And even law enforcement misidentified family members back then. For instance, it wasn't all that uncommon to see a Gambino listed as a Genovese, or vice versa, on an FBI file back then.

And I'm sure that to Nicky Barnes, Matty was just one of the Eye-Talians. And as long as he was getting paid, that's all he needed to know.

from what i remember from it he did come off as somewhat indifferent to what was going on with the supply end of things. Ill try and find it again I'm sure i pasted up on another thread a while back.

This barnes testimony from the presidents commission on organised crime from back in 85. He goes into the relationship with the mafia.
some of the spelling messes up during the copy and pasting it. https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/105010NCJRS.pdf


MR. OINTINO: Mr. Barnes, you have made
a statement that the supplier who was determined to be an informant named Carmine Pugliese, you decided to terminate this individual?

THE WITNESS: Yes. sir.
MR. DINTINO: Did the Council seek permission from anyone to terminate this individual, outside of your own council?

THE WITNESS: No, we didn't. We didn't require supervision from anyone.
We weren't subjected to any intimidation by any outside group_

MR. DINTINO: Do you know if he was connected to any of the seven Hafia families in New York City?
THE WITNESS: We didn't know. We werent
interested.

HR. DINTINO: Your main supplier Madonna. was he connected to any of the seven Mafia families in New York City?

THE WITNESS: I think so.

MR. DINTINO: What family?

THE WITNESS: I don't know. I have heard
him mention names, but I just don't remember any of them at this time.

MR. DINTINO: Did your Council have any inter- action with the seven .mafia families in New York City?
THE WITNESS: No sir
MR DINTINO:You worked completely independent
WITNESS:Yes, sir.

MR DINTINO:Now, in the Harlem area, even though you were involved in heroin, the other vice activities, such as prostitution, lottery. bookmaking, loan sharking, were they controlled by Black organized crime. or were they controlled by the Mafia families in the Harlem area?

THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, it was Black
controlled.
MR. DINTINO: In other words, you had complete control of the Harlem area. and that Blacks controlled
the vice activities in the Harlem area?

THE WITNESS: Y e s .
MR. DINTINO: Did you extend outside the Harlem area, particularly in narcotics trafficking?


THE WITNESS: Well. among the Council members with whom i was associated. one of our Council members operated in Brooklyn.. and another one operated in the bronx.

MR. DINTINO: One~ last time: Was there any interaction between you and the, Council and the Mafia families in New York City?

THE WITNESS: When you use the word "inter-raction"?
MR. DINTINO: Did you get permission from them to do anything?
THE WITNESS: No. we didn't need permission.

MR. DINTINO: Did they operate in Harlem in anyway?
THE WITNESS: No. not to my knowledge.
HR. OINTINO: Did they ever?
THE WITNESS: Oh, yes, at one time they did.
MR. DINTINO: Whai: year are you talking about?
THE WITNESS: I think there was a gradual
changing of hands beginning in the '60·s.

MR. OINTINO: Would you characterize that
the seven Mafia families, at this time. would be appre- hensive about operating in Harlem?
THE WITNESS: I don't know whether they would be apprehensive. I think that they would probably conclude that it wouldn't be a sound business decision t.o be:: involvud in Harlem because many of the Blacks in Harlem operate the area for themselves.

MH. DINTINO: Okay, sir, thank you.
THE CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
I would like to ask you one question: Knowing
the background of the Mafia, how do you account for the fact that they didn't intimidate the Council or your operations and try to move in?

THE WITNESS: I think the best response I could offer would be that thay probably concluded that the fox isn't worth the chase, and they decided to stay out.
THE CHAIRMAN: Why wasn't tho fox worth the
chase?

THE WITNESS: I think that the obstacles would have been created because the Blacks felt that Harlem, in a sense, belonged to them, and I think that they wore willing to fight for the territory.
I think that the organized crime people
wanted to--they wanted to earn from the activities in
a territory, but I don't think that they wanted to go back to the violence of the Prohibition-type era, and I think that is what they would have been confronted with.

THE CHAIRMAN: In short, there would have been warfare?.
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir·.

Who are the other two Mafia families in NYC Dintino was referring to? One is likely the Decalvacante Family since they did have guys working in the area from time to time.

Has anyone ever verified if this Carmine Pugliese character ever really existed and if he was a made man or connected and which family?

Didn't the Luccheses originate in the 108th st area? I've read that they were known as the 108th st mob back during the Prohibition era and afterwards. Most of their drug dealers during the Lucchese and Corallo eras came from Harlem.

Were Vincent Pappa and Anthony Loria members of the Purples? How about Bowat?

That's what I said.

They sold them plenty of dope, if that's what you mean.


No.

When Nicky met matty in prison Joey Gallo was also in there at the time matty hanged with the Italians Nicky with the Blacks but Joey hanged with everyone including the gays NOONE fucked with Joey.That prison was a whos who of orginised crime

Best guess would be it came from Big John

The smack? Big John? Gotti?

John gotti was a nobody during that time

By that time John Gotti as noted on the biography channel finally grew into his hand me downs and often was mistaken for a mechanic for walking around with so much dirt on him as pictured in one mug shot. John also got a matching pair of shoes by 1969 before he rocked out w his cock out with sammy jimmy brown jackie nose n quack quack

I obviously didn't mean John Gotti lol

Mostly likely Matty started working for or guys working for big john ormento but he dies in the early or mid 70s so by the end of the Nicky Barnes era im not quite sure who took over big john ormento's buisness

wonder when his trial in nyc sarts with dinapoli for shacking down some unions and stuff. I understand the trial in nj fell apart but I never heard of the nyc feds letting a rico trial just vanish. he was indicted probably 4yrs ago something must went fucked up for the fbi probably witnesses died or went back to crime.

Ok my fault, I truthfully wasn't sure.

Hey Tiger84 - Can I ask where you saw this article about Madonna using individual mules to carry heroin from Bangkok to New York? The reason I ask is I've wondered how a lot of the big junk guys used to import. It's hard to imagine old New York mobsters flying to Thailand or Burma to arrange purchases or setting up flights. I always figured NYC mobsters just bribed guys at ports or shipping facilities to let their packages through (and worked with somebody at the source that was responsible for sending it). Anyways, anything you got that specifically talks about how they got it done would be appreciated.

i found this posted earlier on in this thread.


I think nicky barnes may have started dealing with galante after madonnas conviction. http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=784474

Or he could have been dealing with ike atkinson who was still operating till 75 and supplied guys in new york, swell as elsewhere on the east coast.

I doubt Galante was dealing directly with anyone who wasn't made in the American Mafia or Sicily, and neither were his zips.

There were plenty of guys with the Luccheses that could have supplied him

I've asked this a couple of times and maybe someone responded (sorry if this is a repeat question). What happened to Operation Heat… plea deals? Anyone turn states', etc etc? Also length of sentence would be appreciated

Some have pled guilty, some are in negotiation and some are going to trial

Anthony Loria "Tony" was definitely Purple back in the early days and got his start in "business" up in East Harlem...His brother in law, Alfred Perillo ("Freddy Clutch") was made and was in the trenches with Joe Cargo (Valachi)...Perillo gave Loria his start. Loria then moved to "The Neighborhood" (187th & Arthur Ave) and set up shop. One time when the bulls tried to make a bust at Perillo's house, Loria tossed all the dope and guns out the window. He took the whole rap and all the heat. Eventuality, the case was overturned on appeal for "illegal search & seizure" and basically set forth the way the 4th Admendment is used til this very day and is often cited in case law. ***The Court of Appeals in People v. Loria (10 N.Y.2d 368)*** ...Perillo died, Valachi fliped and Loria hooked up with Vinny Papa, Johnny Dio, & Virgil Alesi. They were selling the "French Connection" babania that they were stealing from the NYPD property room. (As everyone knows, there are many theories on how that was actually done and by whom, and I'm sure a whole seperate thread can be filled by those thoughts...However, for now, lets just say Papa was the "ace in the hole", with Loria, Alesi , Louis Cirillo and a couple other main players) As that dope was flowing freely from the property room on Broom Street, Loria moved to Castle Hill and then out to Long Island..In late 60s & early70s, Papa who was based in Astoria, was supplying all the stolen French Connection dope in major to a variety of dealers. But the biggest chain was with Loria and Alesi. With Papa as the main vein of supply, they would do major swaps at Loria's house out in North Babylon. Alesi would take his dope back to his various spots in the city. Loria, now in total charge of the heroin flow on Long Island would then supply to a chain of dealers who took it to street level. Some of his junk wound up in the arm of a guy named Burke from Islip, NY who was supplied by Angelo Paradiso (a dealer who got his supply from Loria). Burke overdosed and this brought heat on the Loria organization from the investigators on the bottom level. Meanwhile, Papa was catching heat from the feds and Cirillos yard was being dug up showcasing a million cash. So with heat comming from the top with the Feds, and comming from the bottom with local Suffolk County dicks, the "trail" led to Loria's home. Eventually, they busted Paradiso, who gave up everbody and their mothers up....This whole saga was explained in detail in The Heroin Trail, by NY Newsday..I recommend it if you haven't read it.

As for supplying the blacks, one of Loria's customers was Mr. HUFF. He used to drive out to Loria's house in his big Cadillac, blinged with gold and diamonds everywhere! He supplied alot of areas in The Bronx and Harlem.....So yes, no matter how many times they try to say The Goombah's had nothing to do with the blacks, they are mistaken. Madonna, Loria, and Cirillo all supplied the blacks.

Even though Papa & Loria were not made, they certainly had the attention of every boss and skipper around, and nobody fucked with them, not even the Dons..They were for real! Serious and dangerous as can be...Ah, the good old days

Why do you keep making the same post?

Cut it out InDa, or you'll be in da sandbox.

I apologize. I'm new to the board and didn't realize my post was being repeated...Sorry guys

Just been trying to research about Matty Madonna and his brother Frank. Not sure if you guys know this information about him. His mother is Rosina "Rose" Rotondi she was born 1893 in Italy and died 1959 NYC and his father Guido Madonna was born June 17, 1894 and died August 1993, he was a barber in Harlem. They resided in the 40's on 116th street makes sense his connection with dealing H there. Matty has a sister Mary born 1920 and his brother is Frank Louis Madonna born 1927. I found he was released from federal prison on 7/17/1987. Just not sure if he was a made Lucchese man or just an associate?