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How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? #675447
11/09/12 02:11 PM
11/09/12 02:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 151
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Mr_Willie_Cicci Offline OP
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Mr_Willie_Cicci  Offline OP
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After Vito is dead, how is it that ANY of the Capos or Soldiers respect/fear Michael? All he is, until he really proves himself with the Massacre, is the Bosses son, who was appointed Acting Boss simply because he was the Bosses son.

He never did anything truly of significance within the Family; Yes, he murdered the Turk and McClusky, but any button man could've whacked them.

Unlike Sonny, he never associated with any of the Muscle end of the Family. Sonny had a crew of sorts and came up within the Family as it grew, at least during the War, likely guys who knew, liked and were picked by Sonny himself. Michael has Al Neri, but it's not the same as being a Capo for years or being in a crew.

Think about it this way: Tessio and Clemenza probably knew, worked with and brought up the members of their crews through the years, schooling them, and in this way created a bond, a relationship of sorts, with them. A mutual respect. Michael never had that. He went from being a civilian to being Acting Boss pretty much overnight in Mob terms. He never ran any rackets or showed he had any merit to be Boss.

Michael was also seen as being a bit of a goofball, at least prior to his killing the Turk. Everyone, even Tom, laughs at the idea of Michael killing Sollozzo and McClusky. He's not at all taken seriously. His saving grace was his cleverness--"put out that in the papers McClusky was a dirty cop involved in the rackets who simply got what he was coming to him"--But he was not street smart.

It's just amazing how none of the Capos or Soldiers wouldn't be the least bit pissed off that for all their years of service and loyalty, they'd be passed over for the Bosses kid son, the guy with the least amount of seniority and service rendered. You could say Tessio's betrayal was a sign of him being angry at being passed over, but I don't see his betrayal as being borne out of anger but out of perceiving Michael as weak and feeble, surely to bring about the death of the Family, due to his actions as Acting Boss. Even Michael understands that from all appearances--in the eyes of the Mob world--it's the smart decision. Tessio would be saving his Family from a seemingly inept Boss, becoming Boss himself, and possibly preserving some of the Family's strength in the process.

I mean putting Tom Hagen in as Consigliere was questionable, in Mob terms, but Tom showed enough dignity, intelligence and respectability to become accepted by the others as Consigliere. He showed that he had the merit to be Consigliere by the time Vito had died.

Michael's a guy who probably, while being vastly intelligent, has little to no street smarts. He's not a guy who came up on the streets and hustled and racketeered his way to the top; He's a college guy who I don't think would understand the world of a Willi Cicci or a Rocco.

I can't see Michael ever going out on collections or having bookies lay numbers on games for him, or simply buddying around with his Capos and Underlings.

Compare the way his father is viewed--Almost as a God by his Capos, and as a brother to his Consigliere--to the way Michael is viewed. He's not one of THEM. He's a college boy who got the job because his father wanted it to be so.

Last edited by Mr_Willie_Cicci; 11/09/12 03:39 PM.
Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #675706
11/10/12 01:15 PM
11/10/12 01:15 PM
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Turnbull Offline
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Keep in mind that Michael probably had a fairly lengthy "apprenticeship" under Vito between the time he returned from Sicily until Vito's death. That was enough time for him to establish himself as a force to be reckoned with. And, though we don't see it, I'm sure he was smart enough to buy loyalty in the same ways Vito did: by rewarding loyalty.

As we saw at the end: Michael was deliberately testing the loyalty of the two caporegimes. That risk worked out in his favor.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #675877
11/11/12 04:12 AM
11/11/12 04:12 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
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Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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Berlin, Germany
Antwort auf:
Michael's a guy who probably, while being vastly intelligent, has little to no street smarts. He's not a guy who came up on the streets and hustled and racketeered his way to the top; He's a college guy who I don't think would understand the world of a Willi Cicci or a Rocco.


Vito hadn't been on the streets for decades. So people like Cicci or Rocco may have never seen him. As you point out correctly, Michael was intelligent. And he was socially intelligent - he knew how people think. That's all he needed for the job.
In terms of respect, I think the ordinary soldier was satisfied and loyal as long as money came in for him.

Last edited by Danito; 11/11/12 11:02 AM.
Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #675896
11/11/12 10:11 AM
11/11/12 10:11 AM
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Posts: 418
New York
Imamobguy Offline
Capo
Imamobguy  Offline
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New York
Yeah, I agree with Cicci. The Caporegime's who worked with Vito since the mid 1915s upto the 1950s deserve a better position. They ofcourse are more street smart and understand how everyone is when it comes down to business. Tessio was smart and had alot of good connection, if not he could easily make good connection. Clemenza was a good teacher, he taught perfectly, how to earn and how to kill. Tessio and Clem would of been involved in more murders unlike Mike. Michael only became Boss because he was Vito's son which is a bit selfish in the eyes of the Mob. It's like a soldier whacking a boss and becoming a boss himself, you can't do it like that, you have to earn how to play the game. Mike had it all for him since he was born, He could rely on everyone and had the bigger seat than them all because he was only the son of Vito. Tessio had played a major part in the Olive Oil War and also eliminated the Mariposa crime family in the 1930s. Tessio also killed Bruno Tattaglia in 1945. Tessio had realized that Michael was weak compared to Don Barzini though refused to strike back he plotted against Mike. Clemenza had experience killing Stracci, plotted Paulie Gatto's murder and also The Turk and Captain McCluskey so I believe Michael didnt deserve it.

Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Imamobguy] #675908
11/11/12 11:06 AM
11/11/12 11:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
Underboss
Danito  Offline
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Berlin, Germany
Original geschrieben von: Imamobguy
Michael didnt deserve it.

"The Corleone Family" was a family enterprise. So, there's no way that Vito would have appointed Clemenza or Tessio.
Michael didn't deserve it? Yes, he didn't deserve that tragic fate of becoming a gangster boss when all he wanted was to be a math professor.

Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Danito] #676250
11/12/12 03:10 PM
11/12/12 03:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 418
New York
Imamobguy Offline
Capo
Imamobguy  Offline
Capo
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New York
Yes, I know. Clem and Tessio at their time were strong unlike Michael who was just beginning to see power. Maybe Vito didn't elect them into the Administration but they deserved it, the point I'm trying to get across is that when Mike was weak, He could of talked. He knew so much as a son of a Mob Boss who has every person in that life in his connection. I trusted Tessio and Fat Clemenza because what they went through.

Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Imamobguy] #676422
11/13/12 11:13 AM
11/13/12 11:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I have to disagree with the initial premise of this thread, namely that killing McCluskey and Sol was something any button coud do. First of all "any button" would have a hard time getting to Solozzo so long as a NYPD Captain was his protector. Second Michael got the opportunity to kill them both when they requested a meeting on the false belief that he was still a "civilian." Michael risked being shot in the restaurant had someone else on Sol's side been seated at a nearby table. He also had to go to Sicily and live in exile for a long time where he learned a great deal from Don Tomassino who had a good lifelong relationship with him. In the process of all this he lost a wife and a brother, and was only allowed to come back when the family was so weak no one considered them a threat. Between what he learned in Sicily and what he learned in the five plus years under his father's wing was enough to allow him to have the street smarts to be a don.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #676499
11/13/12 04:12 PM
11/13/12 04:12 PM
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Sonny_Black Offline
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Sonny_Black  Offline
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Perfectly put Cicci, and I agree with you. But it's Michael's superior intelligence and cunning that saved him, and I think because of that after a while people began to respect and fear him. Michael did prove to be a great business man and mediator. He was also clever enough to leave the muscle end of his family in the hands of others, while still pulling the strings. This is how he survived for so long.

And I also don't see Michael presiding over the initiation rituals. I think that's something he left for guys like Clemenza to do.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #676520
11/13/12 05:12 PM
11/13/12 05:12 PM
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Trilogy Offline
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Trilogy  Offline
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How did Michael not deserve being the Don? He was the only one who stepped up to the plate destroying his father's enemies while sacrificing his own innocence at the same time.

Godfather part 2: Michael built his family enterprise into a multi million dollar empire, at the same time competeing with enimies out to destroy him.

I don't think tessio or Clemenza or even Tom would be able to handle/bring The Corleone Family up (not even close) to where Michael brought it.

p.s.
Sorry if my grammar sucks.

Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #676525
11/13/12 05:19 PM
11/13/12 05:19 PM
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Trilogy Offline
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Trilogy  Offline
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Also if Michael didn't have "street smarts", he would've been wiped out alonggggg time ago.


Last edited by Trilogy; 11/13/12 05:22 PM.
Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #676607
11/14/12 12:26 AM
11/14/12 12:26 AM
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Appolla Offline
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Wiseguy
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Well people started to respect Vito because he had a certain poise and he was not afraid of anybody and he was smart. He was the boss with fewer murders than Michael. And it is clear that Michael has that presence that Vito had, they believe him if he threatens someone.

Last edited by Appolla; 11/14/12 12:26 AM.
Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Mr_Willie_Cicci] #677692
11/18/12 09:52 PM
11/18/12 09:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 418
New York
Imamobguy Offline
Capo
Imamobguy  Offline
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Posts: 418
New York
@ Dontomasso - I disagree with you. Fredo wasn't much of a member in that life same as Mike. The Turk could of had a meet with Fredo or a Sicilian cousin of the Corleone family or any relative. Michael was frightened when he shot them both and wasn't really cut out for that. It was Sal who had the "put the gun behind the chain thing" idea. I think Sollozzo and Captain McCluskey would of been easy to kill, Corleone members should of been waited inside the restaurant and blasting them both as I think Mike was either first or last inside the restaurant. Mike was smart later on by his legit business which I agree is very smart. Billions could of been made by his legit income and still could of ran his illegal crime family just to look as a legit businessman by the Media. Michael was only respected because he was the son of Vito Corleone plain and simple. Michael didn't have a connection with Don Tommasino, Vito did. Michael wasn't connected in Sicily only his dad could make that possible for him. Michael was smart on decision, He killed Carlo after his dad passed because Vito couldn't of handled Connie screaming in his ear about Carlo being dead. Killing the five bosses, again anybody could of done that but it was smart of Mike. It was like Obama, He ordered the death of Osama Bin Laden and he only picked of where Bush had finished. Anybody could of done it, He later got respect because of his family history by Sonny and Vito including some of the best Caporegimes and members among the Five Families. He also got respect because of how he ordered the death of Barzini, Cuneo, Stracci and Tattaglia. Mike later controlled everything in New York, the gambling was also good for Mike.

Re: How did ANY of the Capos/Soldiers respect Michael? [Re: Imamobguy] #677778
11/19/12 11:03 AM
11/19/12 11:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
Consigliere to the Stars
dontomasso  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I will agree with one thing. Michael and Obama are both capable.

Your argument that Fredo and Mike were cut of the same cloth renders any further argument on my part unnecessary.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."


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