When Freddie asks Franke 5 Angels about Fat Clamenza he responds by saying "junk" in Italian. How did you think he died, were they implying that he was a junkie? Or did the dope peddlers in general lead to his death?

Overall a weak, anti-climatic end to one of the main characters, while every other characters death was dramatic in some way.

No there is nothing to show Clemenza was a junkie...quite the opposite. The "official" version of his demise was that it was a heart attack, however WIllie Cicci is emphatic it was "no heart attack" that killed him. The consensus on the boards has always been it was the pressure the Rosatos put on him, but I would not rule out their having had a more direct hand in his demise.....maybe they fed him to death!

I believe that Coppola left Clemenza's death vague on purpose ... as a payback to Castellano for not coming to terms to appear in Part II.

Possible, SC...very possible, but I also have to think he wanted to downplay the Clemenza character to allow Pentangeli to chew the scenery as well as he did.

What dt and SC said. I think Cicci was deliberately stating that pressure--or foul play--was the cause to support his boss with Fredo.

"Junk"? never heard it.

Frankie says "junk" when referring to the Rosato brothers and how they have ruined their grandmother's neighborhoods by allowing drugs and whores to be their priority, and they save the gambling for last. He calls it "ababania" (spelling phonetic), which is strictly a Sicilian-American word, because my cousins in Sicily never heard of it.

Babania is another way of calling heroin/junk/smack. So, Pentangeli refers to it as: "a babania."

Were the Rosatos the family who also allowed blacks and Peurto Ricans in they're crew or am I thinking about Joey Zasa?

Did we ever find out why Castellano didn't want to be in II? Did he ask for more money? Why would anyone pass up a chance being in the second movie after the first one was such a success?

Babe, mark this day on your calendar: you are right again.

Those two scenes are distinct and quite apart from one another. How anyone would confuse them is beyond me. I think that those of us who have been Board members for quite awhile have viewed the film and read the novel several times; the new members' posts tend to reflect a superficial viewing and reading. Even multiple viewings and readings can result in errors. I encourage the new members to view the film and read the novel at least twice.

What Olivant said.

Frankie is complaining about the Rosatos selling drugs in the old neighborhoods, and presumably in other areas where it was supposed to be regulated when Vito made his deal. Moreover, they made most of their money selling drugs, in the old neighborhoods and in the "dark areas" where they recruited blacks and hispanics instead of Sicilians. In short, they were not "old school" mobsters, like Frankie and Clemenza before him.

Not that Michael cared. All he was concerned about was the bottom line. Sales of drugs in the ld neighborhoods or other forbidden places was a sop Michael used when it suited him, as was the case in III when he went after Joey Zasa for it.

I encourage new members to read the novel twice and the film at least ten times.

I believe in a draft of the script Pentangeli talks to the Rosato brothers and basically says something to the effect of: "You drove Pete Clemenza to his grave, you and your brother", the indication being that they were screwing running New York up, and Clemenza was having all the pressure of dealing with it. Basically remember in the Sopranos how Silvio went to the hospital because it was too much pressure being the boss when Tony was in the coma or whatever? I'm guessing it was like that with Clemenza, but all the pressure (to say nothing of his weight, since he was pretty clearly obese) gave him a massive heart attack and he died.

The Rosatos are a carbon copy of the real-life Gallo brothers, a faction in the NYC Profaci family that rebelled over territories promised them by the boss, who never delivered. Eldest brother Larry Gallo was garrotted in a Brooklyn bar and was saved from death by the unexpected arrival of a policeman.

Castellano didn't appear in II not only because he wanted more money than Paramount was willing to pay, but because he also wanted his girlfriend Ardell Sheridan (who played Mrs. Clemenza in GF) in II, and wanted her to be involved in scripting.

You should read Harlan Lebo's definitive "The Godfather Legacy," which has priceless material about the making of the Trilogy. Most of us here regard it as the bible.

We do not regard it as the bible , it IS the bible, the torah, the koran, lao tzu, and buddhism.

The Godfather Legacy focuses on Part I, en devotes 1/3 ot its pages to Part II and Part III. The Godfather Book by Peter Cowie, which for me is the bible, focuses on all three films.

Hi Olivant and Sonny_Black,

I am afraid I am one of the new additions to the board.In my defense I saw the first 2 movies at least once a year in the past 15 years and 3 times over one week this summer (that is why I am here) plus I read the book over the summer several times. (My parents are fans what can I say)
But I have to say one of the reasons I registered to this board was that people seemed to be very intelligent and extremely civilized. Truly a quality difference from many other sites on the net.
Please allow newbies(me included) to make mistakes, for whatever reason(!!). For one I am enjoying the movie more/ read the book again after these conversations. It is very interesting to see other people's viewpoint! Thank you for all your inputs.

Appolla, welcome to the boards. New blood is always a good thing! I personally love to hear a different perspective on the films and/or novel. We always think we've discussed it to death, and then a new member like yourself comes along and uncovers things that we never considered.

Welcome! We look forward to hearing from you!

Oli, I was right AGAIN???? Damn, I am on a streak! Keep watching for my replies, though, because they say that three times the charm!

they are animals anyway,,let them lose there souls