Wow for just selling meat and spoon! That is crazy man lol!...I am curious..Are the Solnetsevskaya or Lyubertskaya groups operating in Canada as well at all?...BTW Happy Birthday!

Big thanks man! I never heard of them working, tough Mikhailov and Mogilevich was in some fraud in Canada, YBM Magnex International I think it was named. So, I guess they have groups also based there or at least had.

By searching about Russian Mob in Canada, I found this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/soc.culture.ukrainian/H8n2ZTw7ErQ Don't know if it's real, anyone got information on this?

Yes I remember reading about YBM Magnex before. I just was not sure if those Russian OC groups actually had any establishment within Canada or not. I bet some are present at least in Toronto though. Thanks for the link!

I am also quite interested in the Chechens and Ingush. I find their cultures to be very interesting! You mentioned that they tend to be very violent. Just curious as to how they are more violent than say ethnic Russian gangsters?

Im certainly no expert, but ive read the line between chechen OC groups and chechen terrorists is pretty blurred. And that there has been a big rise in islamic fundamentalism in chechneya, and some OC groups there that are active in arms dealing and drug dealing also have connections with al queada alfiliated groups.

Yes I had read that before as well about Chechen OC groups being connected to Islamic fundamentalists.

The thing about them being Islamic Fundamentalists and connection to Al Qaeda is right from the info I've read.

A lot of Slavic groups went into war with Chechen groups in the 90's, like Solntsevskaya and Orekhovskaya for example.

Chechens are like hot heads, for example if you have beef with them, and set down a sit down. Then most probably you'll get the Chechens just arriving and shooting everyone up without a word being said. They are like gypsies, they stick for their own kind and stand for each other no matter what. They are like wild animals. A lot of Russians hate them for that and other Souther USSR nationalities. Because nowdays Russians tend to do everything trough sit downs and only then someone gets shot after it. But these animals don't do the thing.

The Chechen crime group in Latvia is pretty major, as they have even Political connections.

Are there any Chechen OC groups operating in Moscow at all anymore do you know?

There probably are, but I can't find any information on them. I asked my Russian friends and they said they also have no idea about Chechens. I guess, got to find a Chechen friend then.

You see, there in Moscow now are a lot of also other souther national criminal groups, like Georgian, Uzbek and others.

Anyway, about Chechens in Moscow. I found two articles in Russian on kompromat.

In the 90's there were 3 groups that were operating in Moscow:
Tsentralniy OPG - leader Lecha Islamov, controls around 300 businesses, men and women prostitution in central hotels and markets.
Ostankinskiy OPG - leader Mahmud "Bolshoi", controls furniture sales, as well other products, computers, their delivery to Grozny
Yuzhnoportoviy OPG - leader Nikolay "Hoza" Suleimanov, controls vehicle business in the city.

Hmmm interesting stuff thanks.

It is true though that during Communist times the Soviet government wanted to wipe out the old Russian crime groups and Thieves World correct?

Yeah, that's right. Tough, some information states that Stalin himself was a Thief in Law. It was in the starting years when all criminals were put in gulags, together with a lot of intelectual people. The Soviet Regime was based on if they put all the smart people in the gulag, there won't be no people against them. So that's why you see that nowdays Russian criminals are very smart people.

By the way, I'll try to post up some information from time to time about ROC, like some groups and their history, so this thread doesn't die out so fast.

Sounds good man.

Anyway what people do not understand is that there is a war for vast resources in Russia and that the US would like to get them as well as total domination in the world. Russian OC is pretty strong and does not let US to commit something similar to what they did in Iraq therefore they are upset that things do not go their way. Additionally and it is obvious FSB and OC are elements of the same structure working together towards mutual benefits. No one would like to see Russia follow in the footsteps of Irag and obviously they are the obstacles that prevent Russia from collapse. It might be strange to say things like that but democracy is actually a propaganda tool to defeat your competitors, some sort of ideology similar to communism or fascism- in reality none of these ideologies can ever exist. This is some sort of high level analysis and does not look into normal crime matters

Of all the Russian OC figures I am personally familier with in the US, with a handful of exceptions,all are either Russian Jews or Lithuanian.
As far as the element in the US, lets not overcomplicate it.
These same people were scamming in the old UUSR.They knew how to play the system, and they knew how to fill a void
Here in Chicago they got their feet wet in buying distressed properties, gutting them for any resellable material, and then dumping them on the county, cities or twons for unpaid property taxes. They mixed that with legit rental properties which is why today they own a good portion of the rental property in Elmwood, Jefferson park, in joint ventures with Outfit guys.
Most recently their major racket both here and back east is a hybrid human trafficing/Adult entertainment racket. They promise you women in Russia and other parts of eastern Europe a job and a green card in America, and when they arrive they farm them out to mail otrder husbands for a fee, escort services, massage parlors and strip clubs. Half the women working in the adult industry in the Chicago area arived by thie route. If they complain to try to bow out, they threaten to have them deported or to harm their families back in Europe. It it a shame some outfit guys have been lured into this business, it's ugly

What is the structure of a typical Russian OC group ? Is the rank system of Pakhan , Two Spies , Brigadier , and Boyevik as described by Wikipedia an accurate reflection of the structure of present day Russian OC groups ?

What started as a usual financial disagreement led to one of the most notorious armed fights in central Moscow since the 1990s.

Russian police released CCTV footage of the shooting at the Elements Korean restaurant that left two dead and eight injured.

As I am officially active and back to the forums, you guys can ask questions which I will answer.

FSB has some control over various criminal groups in Russia, especially the big ones. These are mostly businessman crime groups, or people from authority structure who went to the crime side - such as ex cops, army men, kgb agents. There are rumours that few Vory V Zakone have contacts in such structures, but the main thing is that their code is against that. However it doesn't stop criminals being criminals, they will turn and work the rules their way whenever they can.

Yeah, back in 2013 I was in prison for few weeks and met a guy who got deported from US after serving a sentence there. He stated something familiar that most Russians coming from Russia are actually jewish, but those ones coming from Baltic states are real ethnic Russians.
The errands with the properties - generally if you come from a poor country where you used to have survive with scheming how to get more funds and save up money, then more advanced countries have much more easier systems where you find flaws in the system and can save up or earn an extra dollar.
About the prostitution rings, it's a known fact that Russian OC groups specialize in this. However the threats to family matters from the group. By ponyatiya you cannot touch someone's family as they are not responsible for their relatives choices and wrongdoings.




Russian OC is more different and complex than Italian crime groups which most people are here discussing. There is not an exact Rank structure that these groups go by.
Bigger crime groups have structures and ranks, smaller ones limit themselves to less ranks. Some considered mafias are just networks of groups working together on a deal or solving a conflict.

Small groups usually are organized by a leader or few, often named as "authority"(avtorityet). Some groups hold a rank "Obshak", which is the person or many of them who hold the groups funds. This comes from the prison system, as they have an Obshak.

Sometimes small groups will divide roles or tasks, also interpret more ranks, such as the hitman. Bigger groups will have more ranks, but there is no exact names or guidelines what these ranks need to be. It is up to the group to have them. Such as there will be leaders, close people to the leaders, obshak, brigadiers if the group runs several brigades, hitmen, security for the higher ranking members, etc. As bigger the group, the more the ranks there could be.

Thief in Law Ranks or Status?
Vory V Zakone by basic western understanding is a large and loose prison gang covering all ex-USSR countries and some prison outside(such as a Cyprus prison is ran by Georgian thieves in Law, several prison in Western Europe hold ex-USSR inmates and they tend to stick together and live by the ponyatiya).

Vory V Zakone do not have ranks, but more like status system. There is no kingpin or main leader - Vor V Zakone is the highest status in the system, but he is equal with all other Vory V Zakone, who can at any time decide his faith. Usually they are leaders of a prison when they are locked up. They look over it, their role is to have prisoners a fair life inside by the ponyatiya. Also gaining funds and other good for the inmates. Outside they more pull off roles as crime group leaders or respected members in the groups - however it is against the ponyatiya to take orders from anyone. They control criminal funds and hold responsibility for them - this is a serious offence in the Vorovskoi Mir if a Thief in Law has spent the funds unrightly or for his own needs.

Then there are several other statuses in prisons - such as Pacani(Lads) and Blatnie(Respected criminal), which are the ones living right by ponyatiya and follow the prison lifes and it's rules made by Thieves in Law.

Downed Kasta/Roosters - these are people who have been raped or downed(can be pissed on or sexually abused in other ways). They don't have any say in the prison life and are not respected by anyone. They have different statuses there, such as there can be leaders called moms, or their significant status for they were downed for Rats(stealing from other inmates), Goats(snitched), Roosters(people who are gay by sexuality or are in prison for rape/pedophilia).

Thanks for answer TPV .


By the way what do you think of the claim ( that I'm quite honestly partial to ) that certain Western governments overstate the influence and power of Russian organized crime in order to score political talking points for their anti Russian agenda ?

I'm not pro Russian government FWIW , but I can't help but agree to a certain extent that the most recent Russian OC busts here in the States were ( at least somewhat ) politically motivated .

I generally have an opinion that Politicians and Media overstate a lot of things and not always say the truth. Politicians especially are very tricky people who have to compete with other politicians in order to succeed, so they will use anything they can to gain recognition. So ROC for them would be a good treat to use the situation and show that they "care for people". Russian Mafia is familiar to other crime groups in the world, just with their traditions and system of work. There are many more crime groups in the world from other countries that bring as much threats to Western Countries as same as the Russian Mafia.

I'm not sure if they were politically motivated, but with all the attention to Western Countries vs Russia situation at the moment, it could be that these structures who do investigations on ROC have somewhat motivation from their higher-up's. Such as if a president would be killed, the investigation and recognition would be much bigger than any other usual murder case. In short words - you need to show that you do your job.