Does the fbi really know everyone that is involved with a family?

i don't think so but they know several of them

the feds apparently used to give a congratulations card to newly made guys in the past

Seriously?

Yes, or pay them a visit and say something like "we hear your moving up in the world" etc. It's a way of letting the made guy know the feds know who they are and are watching them. It's a tactic.

Kind of a dick move. But I'd assume most of them wouldn't care or laugh in their faces.

Most are pissed off.

They know a lot but their are some they dont know.

How do they know when people get made?

they need to back off

^^^Back off? Are you supporting the mafia?

They know through surveillance, wiretaps, informants, etc.

i just think their are more important things the FBI should be doing then sending cards

who's your new profile picture?

Of course they don't know them all they most likely know alot maybe the majority . I'm guessing they could think certain frequent associates are made that might not be yet.

Let's not forget these guys in most cases aren't the most secretive. They like to brag. What is the point of being a made guy, if nobody knows? This is the mindset of today's mobster imo. Of course there are exceptions, but...

When Joey gets his button, everyone in the neighborhood knows. Their big mouths get them in these situations. Kinda like when non-scum get a job promotion- you're gonna tell your friends, etc.

Combine that with wiretaps and informants, and you usually get a good idea of who is doing what.

I can't imagine the FBI being able to keep track of every associate. Made guys? Yes. Associates? No fucking way. Just my opinion. Sure they got an idea of who the main guys are in the family but there has to be guys out there that they have no clue who the fuck they are. Keeping track of this would impossible.

I mean look at all the little hoodlums that get hired here and there to do bs on the side for the mob.

For example......

Johnny knows little Jimmy from the neighborhood and tells him that he needs him to light a garage on fire to send a warning. Then when this is done, little Jimmy gets a couple hundred bucks for a job well done. Eventually in 10 years after a few more favors, Little Jimmy officially becomes an associate with the goal of becoming a made man. This puts little Jimmy officially on the FBI's radar. But little did they know that for the last 10 years, little Jimmy has been doing favors for the mob.

Little Alley Boy Persico

Hit that right on the head all the up to capos and more soldiers ,double associates.Know a guy that let a guy get calls from prison and handed him the phone .He has been on the charts for 27 years.

In this day and age, with the collected knowledge over decades, technology, and informants, the FBI is going to know most of the membership of a family. I'd be surprised if anything more than say 10% of made guys fly under the radar.

It should be noted that the mob charts posted on these forums are not what the FBI has. Most are compiled from scouring several different sources. Some, like Pogo's charts, are very well done and the best one could hope for under the circumstances. Others, not so much. Fortunately, a lot of the BS charts that use to float around (like the ones that showed 30 members for Milwaukee or 20 for St. Louis) don't get posted anymore.

Unless they are really good at counter-surveillance, little Jimmy is going to be on the FBI's radar sooner than that because FBI is going to start asking "why is Johnny meeting this unknown kid in restaurant parking lot" or "why is Johnny's known associate Tony frequently calling this unknown kid with crypic messages after he talks to Johnny". If Jimmy comes into contact with someone under surveillance or wearing a wire in his ten years of doing "little favors", he's going to be checked out long before he becomes a close associate or made.

It should be noted that according to Jack Garcia, his UC work identified a whole new crew unknown by the FBI.

If the FBI can miss A CREW, they can miss quite a bit.

I'd suggest possible 65-75% of made guys would be know to LE. And 'know to LE' is ambiguous. I'm referring to know as a made guy, not just know in general.

I would assume by the time they have those family charts published 75% of the chart is inaccurate

It's been a rather rare thing over the years when the feds have released an entire chart of a family. I imagine their info is very up to date. What we have, as little bits of info here and there come through indictments and the media may be more behind.

I think in this day and age charts are more accurate. More guys who flipped plus way better surveillance techniques make it so.

If Fat Jack is reffering to the DePalma crew then that's hardly a claim, it's was a smallish, not too impressive crew which by the time be cane along was mostly Westchester-based, and was all orbiting around Greg who was already known to the feds for years they just probably didnt expect hed become a skipper again after what happened with the Scores case, I think there were 5 or 6 made guy, cudos to him

Where can I find Pogo's charts?

@ Tonyboy.

Good question. From memory I don't think it was a ref to GDP though I could be wrong.

Wish Jackie boy got made though. How hysterical would that have been.

Check your PM's.

Sonny, i read the book. He said they were missing captains on their chart. As well as soldiers. The thing about the feds is they are going to know of these guys, just not that they are made or not.... There is a funny paragraph in that book where the fed guys are arguing how there chart is 100% up to date and accurate, reminded me of ivy hahaha

I've said myself that even the feds are not omniscient or infallible. But, in general, they're still the best source any of us have. Even the most "hooked in" guy on these forums still reads the indictments, as well as things like Gang Land News, for info. Nobody knows enough people or covers enough ground not to.

Let me say being an unsavory person in my younger days, i knew guys who were so proud to be "gangsters" that if a cop straight up asked them if they were drug dealers they would say yes, and than even lie about how much weight they moved. This was in a suburb of Orlando Florida to so it was nothing special. I can only imagine that 95 percent of wise guys nowadays will go and if not brag openly, let it be known that they are made guys.

Skinny and Ivy both have points IMO.

The Feds will prob know most OC guys, just not necessarily accurate info on their standing.

Regards the Feds having info, they're the greatest source of overall info on the 5. Ie the Feds will know more about the Luchese crew in Jersey than a made guy with the Bonnanos in the bronx, but regards the Luchese's or Bonnanos specifically, an associate prob has more info on his fam than LE.

So regards specifics within a family I'm liable to go with boots on the ground posters (Skinny, Bronx, Pizza Boy).

Feds are the framework. But the devils in the details.