Hi all,

I'm new here but have been a lurker for a while. I have seen the Rochester, NY family charts here and have read both Georgia Durante's book and The Hammer Conspiracies but I was wondering if anyone had any insider info, knowledge, stories, etc. on Rochester's past and present.I have scoured the internet and pretty much hit a wall so anything would be great!
Thanks,
oldirtyfishkilla

There's no present in Rochester they've been dead since the late 80s.

Camarel,

Thanks for the quick reply and I know they were wiped out but there was some activity in the 90's which has been documented and a lot of guys were released recently. I also know there is some small-time stuff going on.

I'm looking for any information past or present and stories.

Thanks

I'd like to help but since you've read books on them you'll know more than me. There's alot of members on here that should be able to help you though .

Could you tell me please what period of time does "The Hammer Conspiracies" cover, I mean until what year? Is there a description of the trials in the 80s when Russotti was finally sent away? I would like to buy this book, it seems to be very rare as it's very expensive everywhere I found it. Could you please also suggest me where to buy it for a lower price?

The Hammer Conspiracies covers from when Vincent "Jimmy the Hammer" Massaro gets killed in 1973 through the convictions of the Sheriff's involved in the cover up in 1979. Everything from Sammy Gingello to the Alphabet Wars are covered but towards the end of the book, it gets really wrapped up in the trials and kind of gets boring. Everything leading up to the conspiracy trials reads like you are right in the thick of it and I have never seen anything else with so much info on the Rochester family save for Georgia Durante's book.

There are some copies on the 'bay right now going for around $60.00 which is what I paid a few months ago.

I wanted to see if anyone on here was around during that time or knew anyone.

I lived there for 5.5 years and had no idea of the history until after I left. Then I started to do the research and got hooked!

So I thought I would revive this thread since there has been a slight resurgence of Rochester/Buffalo information flying around on different posts recently..

I would really like to compile some more information that cannot be found in the normal stuff online..

I'll start with this:

Rene Piccareto (former Consigliere to the Rochester Family) is still alive but not in that great of shape (from what it looks like)..

Rene is dead he died a few years ago his son Loren is still around.

As of July 2013 Rene is still alive at 89 years old.

My bad Rene still is alive.

No worries! I thought he was too until I came across that information!

Anyone else have anything to contribute?

There are still a good amount of guys out there that are still alive also...

All due respect, Rene was the would be Consigliere for what would have become the "Rochester family" had they succeeded in seperating from Buffalo, which never actually happend, either as a practical matter on the streets, or in the eyes of the commission. Forget those idiot FBI reports. It never existed except in the mind of the delusional B teamers and the pipe dreams of the Valentes

Reigio Martingano just recently past away,old man Vadala is dead and the "kids" want no part of the life, which is too bad, Mike was a good earner back in the 80s

Arm,

You keep eluding to the fact that there was no Rochester "family" as they never successfully broke away from Buffalo but you haven't stated any information proving your theory...

What was The Hammer Conspiracies about??? Aloi was their lawyer at one point... How about Georgia Durante's book?

I revived this post for information that can't be found on the internet or FBI files...

Also, who are the two guys you mentioned??? Couldn't find anything...

The guys I mentioned were Buffalo associates who were Rochester seperatist sypothizers who managed to stay in the good graces of Buffalo afther the ABC wars were over.
As for the attempted succession, I can tell you that the core of the would be "Rochester Family" were never able to take over the operations even in the city of Rochester, much le4ss anywhere else. The commission NEVER accepted Rochester as a seperate family, and Russotti the rebel underboss, and Picarreto the rebel consigliere were never recived as such by anyone in the LCN who mattered, and their real loyalty was to Pittsburgh and the Banonnos respectivly, not to valente
Gingello, Celestino,Didio, Vaccaro and Chirio the would be Capos were train wrecks. Chirio got whacked, and the rest became Persona non Grata after the ABC wars
Velente retired and died of nateral causes.
Russotti tried to recreate the rebellion but failed miserably, and although the war carried on years after, by 1978 Buffalo had pretty much won the war.
Russotti went to prison,Gingello and Didio were whacked.
The last attempt to break from Buffalo came from Angelo Amico and Loren Piccarreto, who's idictments and imporonment probabaly prolonged their lives.
Through it all, It was Buffalo who continued to run the rackets, as is the case today
The Hammer Conspiracies focused on the Massaro murder, the bombings and the misconduct by the prosicution and pilice, and contained few details from the street.
Georgia Durante's book is pretty much your MAFIA princess tell all...nothing all that informative

Arm,

I mean no disrespect but you aren't saying anything with your above statements...just regurgitating information that ANYONE can find on the internet.
There is NO record of Martingano and the only Vadala I could find was an "Anthony" who was a button in the Lucchese family.

Can you start giving out some actual information to back up your claims?

All due respect...I'm confused as to what you are looking for, I gave you information you can't find on the internet, and then you complain you can't find it on the internet.
I just laid out for you the three attempts that Rocheter too at splitting from Buffalo, and why and how they failed, and by your own admission, it all checks out.
Did you see my detailed behind the scenes account of the final days of the war involving John Sullivan and the Fiorino murder on another thread?
There I gave you a combination of what the media said happend, and what actually happend and why.
I can either give you inside stuff you won't find on line, or I can give you verifiable info, or I can give you a combination of both...I don't know of a 4th option

Arm,

I appreciate the info but what you gave was a brief account of the family splitting up..

About the guys you gave, if they are dead, then by your rules, tell how they were connected to (or in) Rochester since they are new names to me.

You also mentioned in another thread that Sammy G was much older than you so I assume your were in your teens when this was all going down?

And yes, I know all about the Sullivan stuff as it was all well-covered and well-documented.

I entered the fray late in the war and early in life, I was earning with some money on the streets and selling guns at 18, my personal introduction to the ABC wars was the murder of Buffalo skipper Al Marrone in 1976 by Coloumbo associates (the C team) . I had no choice becuse no Buffalo made guy or associate was safe in Upstate NY from that point on.

Reigo lived in Rome NY, Mike Sr and Jr lived in Rochecter. As I said, they were quite simply Buffalo associates that sided with the valente's during the conflict, but not to the point where they had to go, or be banished.

As far as Sully, I challange you to show me any media reports that stated he ditched his car behine Whiteys cafe on Bleeker street in Utica, or that the was found to have spent one night in the warehouse of casa Imports in Utica, and the second night in the social club on 2nd aveneue, and that he was arrested at a gas station in Westmorland NY. The media accounts completly omitted tghis info as far as I know

Arm,

Thanks for the info and keep it coming...

No problem and will do

Speaking of the C-team, who was its boss, was it Torpey and Taylor or somebody else?

Torpey and Taylor were essentially the "leaders" of that crew and were Gingello loyalists. They were Gingello's bodyguards and were in the car the night Sammy got blown up. The "C" crew was formed to take out the guys who killed Sammy and those who sided with Didio...

At that point, things were so f'd up with all the different "crews" that no one could figure out what was going on... You had guys like A. Chirico and R. Starkweather running around planting bombs and looking for vengeance all while two other "crews" were still trying to earn and not get killed.

This really could've been a helluva "family" had it not imploded so badly...

Well said...It was a total cluster. You could be having lunch with a guy he was an enemy and not even know it. There were dozens of fence sitters who switchwed loyalties like socks

They would not have imploaded and probabaly could have been a great family had they done three things differently:
1. Gone to Buffalo with a business proposition as opposed to an ultimatum
And 2. Kept Pittburgh, the Colombos and NE Pennsyvaina out of it.
3. Confined their ambitions to Monroe county
At the end of the day, Upstate NY outside Rochester was 3 familes all chasing the same dollar.
I for one could have lived with a seperate Rochester as could most of the rank and file. The leadership would have been hot for the deal too if there was an equitable cut, and they were all on the same page
As I said before though, I would be fucked if I would have to kick up to scumbags like Nappi and D'Amico on behalf of lowlifes like Bretti and Persico, and as the body count showed, I was not the only one who felt that way.