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Another Godfather 2 Observation #6692
02/09/04 06:28 PM
02/09/04 06:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
Mignon Offline OP
Mama Mig
Mignon  Offline OP
Mama Mig

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 19,066
OH, VA, KY
If this was talked about before I'm sorry!!!

While Senator Geary was talking to Mike he said "his sources told him that you(Mike) was planning on making a move on the Tropicgala(sp)moving Klingman out". When he said that Mike looked at Tom I got the impression that the way Mike looked at Tom he was thinking how dare you leak this info. Is this the wrong assumption that Tom leaked this info? If so please let me know.


Dylan Matthew Moran born 10/30/12


Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6693
02/09/04 10:07 PM
02/09/04 10:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
The camera angle you cited was probably a directorial dramatic touch, not really designed to imply anything. But, to your question: I don't believe that Michael would ever doubt Tom's loyalty in this or any other situation. I don't think it would surprise Michael--or Tom--that Geary heard about Michael's plan to move Klingman out. Geary was the big political power in the Nevada gaming industry and could be expected to know everything going on. In fact, the reason that Michael and Tom were meeting with him privately was to get his ok for Michael to move Klingman out and get on the license for the Tropigala (I agree--that's how it sounds). What might have occasioned the glance between Michael and Tom was that Geary said, "you're planning to move Klingman out." That would imply force. Maybe Michael and Tom didn't expect Geary to think they were forcing Klingman out.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6694
02/09/04 10:24 PM
02/09/04 10:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
plawrence Offline
RIP StatMan
plawrence  Offline
RIP StatMan
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Posts: 15,058
The Slippery Slope
I don't think Tom leaked the info, either.

I took the look Michael gave Hagen to mean "How did he find this out?" and Hagen's look back at Mike is "I don't know".

But right after that, isn't that where Mike says "Turnbull is a good man"? That indicates to me that Mike knew where Geary got his info, and that it wasn't from Tom.


"Difficult....not impossible"
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6695
02/10/04 04:24 PM
02/10/04 04:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline
MaryCas  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
Quote
Originally posted by plawrence:
I don't think Tom leaked the info, either.

I took the look Michael gave Hagen to mean "How did he find this out?" and Hagen's look back at Mike is "I don't know".

But right after that, isn't that where Mike says "Turnbull is a good man"? That indicates to me that Mike knew where Geary got his info, and that it wasn't from Tom.
I concur 100% on all points. In Michaels' arrogance he may have underestimated Geary and Turnbull OR Tom gave Michael the impression that Geary and Turnbull wouldn't know about their planned move.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6696
02/12/04 01:43 AM
02/12/04 01:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 92
BadaBing Offline
Button
BadaBing  Offline
Button
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Posts: 92
What did Michael and Tom hope to accomplish as a result of the meeting? Did they think that Geary was going to give the license out of appreciation for the donation? Were they finding out at that moment what a complete dirtbag Geary was?


CHRISTIAN
You desecrated a classic film. This is worse than "Godfather III."
GIBSON
Whoa, whoa, hey, whoa! Let's not say things we can't take back.
CHRISTIAN
All right, all right, I'm sorry.
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6697
02/12/04 11:25 AM
02/12/04 11:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
I'm guessing that Michael didn't ask for the meeting. Probably he thought that he'd arranged for the takeover of Klingman's share of the Tropigala (sp?) through Turnbull. I'm guessing that Geary asked for the meeting in order to tell Michael that the deal wasn't in the bag until Michael paid Geary $250k, plus 5% of the gross of all the hotels. Of course, the real reason was to provide us with yet another brilliant and revealing scene about Michael's struggle for "legitimacy" in Nevada, as well as to set up the later scene with Geary and the dead girl in the brothel.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6698
02/12/04 04:04 PM
02/12/04 04:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
EnzoBaker Offline
Capo
EnzoBaker  Offline
Capo
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
I think the function of the scene is to show that in fact Michael was correct when he said to Kay in GF I that senators and presidents are corrupt too.

I think Geary wanted the meeting to put the heat on Michael. He thought he could bluff Michael by talking tough to him, threw in the Sicilian pronunciation of "Corleone" to show he knew damn well what the family was about, and then figured he could pressure Michael for the payoffs.

Michael and Tom of course just made a notation in their little black book. Geary was far more useful to them as a living pawn than a dead body, so they set up the dead-girl-at-the-brothel episode to give them a blackmail hammer on Geary he could never escape.

After that, in Cuba and at the Senate hearings, Geary is an obedient lapdog to the Corleone interests.


"You did good."
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6699
02/12/04 09:34 PM
02/12/04 09:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by EnzoBaker:
After that, in Cuba and at the Senate hearings, Geary is an obedient lapdog to the Corleone interests.
Geary very nearly sent Michael to jail with his two-faced speech in the Senate, and his questioning of Willie Cicci that led Michael into Geary's perjury-trap.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6700
02/12/04 10:04 PM
02/12/04 10:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 127
Eternity
Enzo da baker Offline
Made Member
Enzo da baker  Offline
Made Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 127
Eternity
i thought the looks between Tom and Mike was the unspoken surprise that geary had this information and how well he had done his homework...or what a good man Turnbull was that he done it for him grin


Naz
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6701
02/13/04 05:35 AM
02/13/04 05:35 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
EnzoBaker Offline
Capo
EnzoBaker  Offline
Capo
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 310
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Quote
Originally posted by EnzoBaker:
[b] After that, in Cuba and at the Senate hearings, Geary is an obedient lapdog to the Corleone interests.
Geary very nearly sent Michael to jail with his two-faced speech in the Senate, and his questioning of Willie Cicci that led Michael into Geary's perjury-trap. [/b]
I think more than anything else, Geary's smoochy speech in the Senate simply revealed to most of the rest of the committee members what a tool he was. Most of the tough questions to Cicci came from Questadt, the lawyer who was on Roth's payroll.

Geary makes a point, before the questioning gets really rough, of conveniently having "another committee meeting" that he has to go to. While Geary undoubtedly wanted to see Michael go down, he also knew he himself couldn't play much of a part in it, or he'd be connected to the death of the girl at the brothel, which would ruin him.


"You did good."
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6702
02/13/04 12:49 PM
02/13/04 12:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
All of the members of the Senate Committee, including Geary, knew that Frank Pentangeli was alive and had turned informant. Michael and Tom didn't know that. So, when Geary asked Cicci if he ever got a direct order from Michael, and Cicci said he hadn't, it seemed as if Geary was being helpful to Michael. But the effect was to make Michael relax--since Cicci apparently was the top-ranking witness, and since (thanks to Geary's seemingly "helpful" question)Cicci said he never got a direct order from Michael, he thought he could get away with lying under oath about his involvement in organized crime. Then, bada- bing! , the committee sprang Frankie on him, and he was open to five counts of perjury.

Geary's two-faced speech also was a subtle blow against Michael. When he said, "these hearings on the Mafia are not a reflection on the Italian-American people," who was he referring to as "Mafia" if not Michael? And, when he said, "it would be a shame if a few rotten apples were permitted to spoil the whole bunch," who was he referring to if not Michael?


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6703
02/13/04 01:40 PM
02/13/04 01:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline
MaryCas  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
I always took Geary's speech in the hearings as total fence-sitting. He said just enough to sound like he was tough-on-crime Senator who wanted to expose Michael, but at the same time not enough to bring down the Corleones. He sounds tough questioning Willie C., but asks questions that keep Michael insulated (the buffers.) Sure he knew Frankie P. was going to be the surprise witness, but he never gets to question him, so we don't know what kind of dodge he would attempt. His speech before leaving for his own committee can imply that Michael Corleone is NOT one of those rotten apples.

I think at that point Geary is not sure of the outcome, so he craftily plays up to both sides so no matter who comes out on top he can claim support for the winner. Spineless slimbag.


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6704
02/17/04 05:50 PM
02/17/04 05:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
goombah Offline
goombah  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,762
Anytown, USA
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
All of the members of the Senate Committee, including Geary, knew that Frank Pentangeli was alive and had turned informant. Michael and Tom didn't know that. So, when Geary asked Cicci if he ever got a direct order from Michael, and Cicci said he hadn't, it seemed as if Geary was being helpful to Michael. But the effect was to make Michael relax--since Cicci apparently was the top-ranking witness, and since (thanks to Geary's seemingly "helpful" question)Cicci said he never got a direct order from Michael, he thought he could get away with lying under oath about his involvement in organized crime. Then, bada- bing! , the committee sprang Frankie on him, and he was open to five counts of perjury.

Geary's two-faced speech also was a subtle blow against Michael. When he said, "these hearings on the Mafia are not a reflection on the Italian-American people," who was he referring to as "Mafia" if not Michael? And, when he said, "it would be a shame if a few rotten apples were permitted to spoil the whole bunch," who was he referring to if not Michael?
I was always confused by Geary's speech, but Turnbull has added much clarity. I always wondered why Geary was sort of vouching for Michael at the first hearing, but speaking disparagingly in the second. But that makes sense-Geary knew about Pentangelli & how the testimony could potentially sink Michael. This would allow Geary some sense of revenge for the dead prostitute, which held Geary in debt to the Corleone's.

Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6705
02/17/04 06:33 PM
02/17/04 06:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 19
houston, texas
D
dcashley Offline
Wiseguy
dcashley  Offline
D
Wiseguy
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 19
houston, texas
At what point did Geary find out it was the Corleone's who had the prostitute killed? I mean it seems like it would have been obvious, but he didn't seem to make the connection when speaking to Tom about it. Do we just assume he figured it out after this?

Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6706
02/18/04 01:25 AM
02/18/04 01:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by dcashley:
Do we just assume he figured it out after this?
I wouldn't assume that Geary ever knew for certain that the Corleones had the prostitute killed. All he had to know is that he was in the room with the dead girl, in a brothel run by Fredo Corleone, and that Hagen was a witness. Even if he knew that the Corleones did it, there was no way off the hook for him. That's one of the reasons why he tried that clever maneuver with his questioning of Willie Cicci.
Notice, too, that old think-with-his-dick learned nothing from the brothel escapade. Just a few weeks later, in Havana, he's importuning whoremaster Fredo for "one of those red headed Yolandas."


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6707
02/18/04 09:18 AM
02/18/04 09:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
MaryCas Offline
MaryCas  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 8,766
South of the Pinelands
Quote
Originally posted by Turnbull:
Notice, too, that old think-with-his-dick learned nothing from the brothel escapade. Just a few weeks later, in Havana, he's importuning whoremaster Fredo for "one of those red headed Yolandas."
We have agreed in past threads that JD Spradlin's characterization of Geary is impeccable. The other day I was watching GF2 while doing some treadmill time and I picked up on a little dialog connection that I never heard. Anticipating the "red-headed Yolanda" line, I was paying attention to the stage dancers and the MC announces the singer as "Yolanda" something or other. I guess that is where Geary got the Yolanda reference. (We never did get to see Fred Korngold do the cha-cha.)


Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, whoever humbles himself will be exalted - Matthew 23:12
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6708
02/18/04 11:50 AM
02/18/04 11:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Quote
Originally posted by MaryCas:
[QUOTE]We have agreed in past threads that JD Spradlin's characterization of Geary is impeccable. The other day I was watching GF2 while doing some treadmill time and I picked up on a little dialog connection that I never heard. Anticipating the "red-headed Yolanda" line, I was paying attention to the stage dancers and the MC announces the singer as "Yolanda" something or other. I guess that is where Geary got the Yolanda reference. (We never did get to see Fred Korngold do the cha-cha.)
Couldn' agree more! Casting is one of the major triumphs of GF and II. Geary's a relatively minor character in II, and look at all the attention he gets here. Willie Cicci even more so. In both cases, the characterizations were letter perfect. Same applies to Al Lettieri. We could go on and on...
MC: The Havana sequence is so perfect that serious scholars of modern Cuba advise their students to watch GFII if they want an accurate picture of what Havana was like on the eve of Castro's takeover. Another nice touch in the Yolanda scene: Watch how Michael rolls his eyes when Geary says he'll have one of those "red-headed Yolandas." More detail: thanks to the clarity of the DVD, I was finally able to see that there's a card on Michael's table that says there's a $5.00 minimum at the Tropicana club, which I was unable to read on the VHS tape. Also notice that Fredo has three black Cuban cigars in the breast pocket of his white jacket (I thought it was a black handkerchief).


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Another Godfather 2 Observation #6709
02/18/04 01:10 PM
02/18/04 01:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 362
Bronx, NY
B
Buttapcanrican Offline
Capo
Buttapcanrican  Offline
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Capo
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 362
Bronx, NY
Deep. Just when you think you cant learn more about The Trilogy..I love it!!! [Linked Image]


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