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Sollozzo: a man of honor? #656027
07/19/12 10:14 AM
07/19/12 10:14 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline OP
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Sonny_Black  Offline OP
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The novel states that Sollozzo was a boss of his own and wasn't a member of one of the Five Families in New York. Vito regards him as a 'man to respect' which I interpret as being a made member. It is further said that he had heroin plants in Sicily and poppy fields in Turkey. I don't know of any American mobsters who had such an operation of their own in Sicily, only members of the Sicilian Mafia. So that's why I think Sollozzo must have been a member of the Sicilian Mafia which also explains how he, as an outsider, was treated with respect by the bosses of the Five Families in New York.

What do you think?


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #656039
07/19/12 12:23 PM
07/19/12 12:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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In the novel, Hagen describes an impressive list of bona fides for Sollozzo. I don't think a Sicilian could have been involved in such a broad variety of seemingly big-time drug activities without being a made man in the Sicilian Mafia. As such, he'd have credibility with Tattaglia and the other Families. But he needed their imprimateur to operate in the US.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #656069
07/19/12 03:38 PM
07/19/12 03:38 PM
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Posts: 3,568
Sonny_Black Offline OP
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Sonny_Black  Offline OP
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I'm thinking the same. Sollozzo wouldn't have been able to attack the Corleones if he wasn't an important figure in the Mafia. I'm thinking that he probably was a boss of a town in Sicily.

Salvatore Maranzano, for example, is thought to have been the boss of Castellammare in Sicily which is why he became a boss in New York just a few years after he arrived.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #656165
07/20/12 06:29 AM
07/20/12 06:29 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,718
Berlin, Germany
Danito Offline
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Danito  Offline
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In the restaurant scene Sollozzo says "Iddu nu lo vo capiri che eo sono un uomo de onori."
("He doesn't understand that I'm a man of honor.")

Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #656209
07/20/12 02:32 PM
07/20/12 02:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
olivant  Offline
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If man of honor is a Mafia badge, then surely Vito knows that.

I was always struck by how Sollozzo presented himself as an independent operator which seems unlikely.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Danito] #656216
07/20/12 03:27 PM
07/20/12 03:27 PM
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carmela Offline
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carmela  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Danito
In the restaurant scene Sollozzo says "Iddu nu lo vo capiri che eo sono un uomo de onori."
("He doesn't understand that I'm a man of honor.")


I don't know if you translated this on your own or not, but the spelling on the translation in Sicilian is very good. The only thing is, if you wanted to nitpick... "I" in Sicilian is "Iu", not "Eo".


La madre degli idioti e' sempre incinta.

Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Danito] #656218
07/20/12 03:43 PM
07/20/12 03:43 PM
Joined: May 2010
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Sonny_Black Offline OP
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Sonny_Black  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Danito
In the restaurant scene Sollozzo says "Iddu nu lo vo capiri che eo sono un uomo de onori."
("He doesn't understand that I'm a man of honor.")


Thanks for the input. This is an important detail.


"It was between the brothers Kay -- I had nothing to do with it."
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #656267
07/20/12 10:25 PM
07/20/12 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 385
Tampa, FL
waynethegame Offline
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waynethegame  Offline
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Tampa, FL
I don't think Sollozzo would have had much, if any, influence if he wasn't a Mafioso from the old country. He was clearly a "man of respect" with a successful narcotics operation so he had some power and influence somewhere at least, and was looking to branch out into the States.


Wayne

"Finance is a gun. Politics is knowing when to pull the trigger."
Don Lucchesi
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: waynethegame] #658669
08/04/12 12:13 PM
08/04/12 12:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
Sollozo was a made man in Sicily (he did two terms in Italy and kept omerta) and was simply trying to expand into the New York market. He went about it in an "honorable" way by approaching Barzini, having Barzini tell him he'd back him, but to use Tatt as his front man, and to get the blessing of Vito Corleone. When Corleone refused I am sure he went back to Barz and Tatt who wanted th drug money and got their permission to kill him. When that failed, it was all downhill for him from that point. The mere fact that the other families sided against the Corleones for the killing of Sol and
McCluskey showed their respect for Sol as one of their own.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: dontomasso] #658678
08/04/12 12:47 PM
08/04/12 12:47 PM
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Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
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Originally Posted By: dontomasso
The mere fact that the other families sided against the Corleones for the killing of Sol and
McCluskey showed their respect for Sol as one of their own.

The novel makes clear that the reason the families lined up against the Corleones was that the cops told all the families that no rackets would be tolerated until the killer of McCluskey was given up. An emissary from the families asked Sonny to give up the killer. When he refused, the war started.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Turnbull] #658707
08/04/12 02:12 PM
08/04/12 02:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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O

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
Originally Posted By: Turnbull
Originally Posted By: dontomasso
The mere fact that the other families sided against the Corleones for the killing of Sol and
McCluskey showed their respect for Sol as one of their own.

The novel makes clear that the reason the families lined up against the Corleones was that the cops told all the families that no rackets would be tolerated until the killer of McCluskey was given up. An emissary from the families asked Sonny to give up the killer. When he refused, the war started.


Exactly.


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #660177
08/14/12 10:30 PM
08/14/12 10:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 418
New York
Imamobguy Offline
Capo
Imamobguy  Offline
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New York
Yeah. I take it that Sollozzo was a powerful figure in Sicily and more than likely a member of the Sicilian Mafia or another Mafia/Gang in Sicily, An Associate usually doesnt get as much respect but Sollozzo must of been a big figure in Sicily.

Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #663606
08/30/12 11:50 PM
08/30/12 11:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,019
Texas
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olivant Offline
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Texas
You know, both the novel and film have Tom telling Vito that, essentially, Sollozzo can't be put off any longer. I wonder why. Why did Vito meet with him? He knew what Sollozzo wanted and he knew he would not give it to him. Why not send word of his decision?


"Generosity. That was my first mistake."
"Experience must be our only guide; reason may mislead us."
"Instagram is Twitter for people who can't read."
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Sonny_Black] #663628
08/31/12 07:19 AM
08/31/12 07:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
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MI
Lilo Offline
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I think Vito knew (as Tom reflects in the book) that his "no" would cause trouble. He probably wanted to meet with Sollozzo face to face to take the measure of the man. He also may have hoped that by doing Sollozzo the courtesy of at least hearing him out that a negative response by Sollozzo or the Tattaglias could be avoided.


"When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives."
Winter is Coming

Now this is the Law of the Jungle—as old and as true as the sky; And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.
As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back; For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.
Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: Lilo] #663643
08/31/12 10:48 AM
08/31/12 10:48 AM
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Posts: 11,468
With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
dontomasso Offline
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dontomasso  Offline
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With Geary in Fredo's Brothel
I think the meeting with Solozzo was sort of a "Hail Mary" pass by the Corleones. After flattering Sol by telling him he was a man worthy of respect, Vito goes out of his way to tell Sol that he doesn't mind "what a man does for a living," but that in his view drugs are a dangerous business. He then says as long as Sol's interests do not conflict with his, he wished him well.


"Io sono stanco, sono imbigliato, and I wan't everyone here to know, there ain't gonna be no trouble from me..Don Corleone..Cicc' a port!"

"I stood in the courtroom like a fool."

"I am Constanza: Lord of the idiots."

Re: Sollozzo: a man of honor? [Re: dontomasso] #663676
08/31/12 01:52 PM
08/31/12 01:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 19,512
AZ
Turnbull Offline
Turnbull  Offline

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AZ
I have another theory of why Vito agreed to the meeting even though he knew he was going to say no:

Notice how everyone important in the family was at the meeting? It was Vito's way of telling everyone, not just Sol, that drug-dealing was forbidden. He knew that Tom and Sonny were in favor, and he didn't want them, or anyone else, to be tempted to make deals with Sol or anyone else. All of them heard The Word.


Ntra la porta tua lu sangu � sparsu,
E nun me mporta si ce muoru accisu...
E s'iddu muoru e vaju mparadisu
Si nun ce truovo a ttia, mancu ce trasu.

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