I could not imagine how bad a Russian prison camp is. Food, hygene, etc....

I'm wondering if any of you know the types of sentences guys get in countries like Italy, Russia, mexico or others with organized crime groups.

I'm sure they are all much softer than America so I guess guys there can get convicted for serious stuff and not spend their whole lives in prison like so many American mobsters do.

@IvyLeague, I'd like to hope that we, as a society, are forgiving people. So that although a person may have committed a horrendous crime, we'd be civil enough to hope and allow for their rehabilitation if they can prove that they can be. Here's an excerpt from a piece about 1st Degree Murder in Canada.

"Despite a sentence of "life imprisonment" being imposed, the vast majority of first degree murderers will eventually be released back into society. Their freedom, however, will be limited by the conditions of parole for the remainder of their lives. Further, a breach of parole could easily result in them having to return to prison to serve additional time."

Even though you have a chance of being paroled, it doesn't necessarily mean you'll receive it.

@IvyLeague, I hope you're not suggesting Capital Punishment for murderers. Put any emotional reasoning aside and you'll soon realize there's more cons than pros for Capital Punishment. First and foremost (assuming that we as a society care for money more than human life), it costs more to murder someone in form of Capital Punishment than it does to keep them in jail for whole duration of the punishment. Secondly, if Capital Punishment was around (currently it's not in Canada) I'd expect the Prime Minister, his cabinet, and the Judge who sentenced the person to death to apologize nationally to the person's family if it came out that the person was indeed not guilty of the crime but had been murdered before it was found out.

That's what happens with Capital Punishment - innocent people die. I don't think anyone could live with themselves knowing they killed an innocent person.

As for parole to murderers, people mess up. We're only humans. Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to rationalize murder here but I'd like to think that people can change over the course of nearly thirty years. Do people not deserve a second chance at life? I'd like to think so.

I'll take the Liberal jest with a grain of salt, I'll assume you were not speaking to me but anyone in general.

Yes, I am suggesting capital punishment for murderers. At least those found guilty of 1st degree murder.

I have a question: if, for example, somebody who had his family killed by mafiosi or street gangsters doesn’t obtain justice through legal ways and kills the ones responsible for the massacre, or for example a father kills the one who raped and killed his daughter (also only after not having obtained justice through legal means), is it considered first degree murder or second degree murder? If it is first degree, then I don’t agree with you that ALL first degree murderers should be executed.

I know, such cases are few, it’s just I remembered some discussions I had on other forums about Japanese detective stories in which the victims very often are the real villains, while the murderers act out of despair or craziness.
But of course, this is of no relevance to most of the mafia crimes, since there it’s almost always about power or money, not despair. In these cases, I am all for life imprisonment.

@Ivy, I'm not a liberal. I'm a human being. No political party represents who I am. My viewpoints are all over the political spectrum, if you will. I dislike when people have to turn to "Oh you Libs" or "Oh, you Cons".

There's no upside to murdering someone for murdering someone else, the only "upside" would be revenge. We live in such a revenge based society it's sickening. Oh, he hurt my Bobby so he should suffer like my little Bobby did. I thought we were civilized, there's a reason we outlived other species because we're constantly evolving. I'd like to think we're progressing and not regressing.

It's proven that in the US there is more crime in the States that allow Capital Punishment than States that don't allow it.

It all comes down to that Canada doesn't have the Death Penalty and I'm grateful for that. However, I can't see it staying much longer with the likes of Harper (criminal) in power as "our" Prime Minister.

I'm glad we could have this discussion Ivy, it's nice to see the other side of equation.

Originally Posted By: IvyLeague

There is an upside to executing murderers. It's called justice. That's the biggest reason for capital punishment. Not being a deterrence. Having a murderer do 25 years or so and then get released is a spit in the face to justice. And it's no sign of "humanity."

Simple: they don't get out after 25 years. That's it. Let them rot in jail until they're collected away by the reaper. Getting raped, abused and eventually turning mad. Many consider this punishment worst than instant, soft, painless death.

@IvyLeague, That's not the case at all. If you take a look at any studies, it'd tell you that Capital Punishment is not a deterrent against crimes, in fact it's more motivation to do crimes (it sounds far fetched, I know, but it in almost all cases is the truth). People are willing to die for a crime they commit rather than spend either life or nearly all their life in a 6x6 cold, damp, scary jail cell with the possibility of being hurt both physically (through rape - Surprisingly a recent study has come out and said that more men are being raped because of them being in prison than women over all) or emotionally. I know I'd rather face death than being in a jail cell for twenty years or what have you, the emotional toll is overwhelming. People go insane when they're placed in solitary confinement (another thing I'm against) as it's cruel and unusual punishment.

Justice is retribution. Revenge. You did something bad so we're going to equally do something bad to you but we're allowed to because we're the law. How messed up does that sound? Vary.

Prison doesn't work for the most part, anyway. There's only two ways people leave jail: completely rehabilitated from their previous crimes and/or worse when they entered. Most of the time it's the latter.

Also, I'm sure you'll be upset to hear that your Supreme Court (?) has just announced that states may not impose on juvenile murderers mandatory life sentences without the possibility of parole. I don't want to put words/ideas into your mouth but from what you've previously mentioned I assume you are against this ruling, Ivy?