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Captain #651462
06/14/12 07:59 AM
06/14/12 07:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 16
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dacoO Offline OP
Wiseguy
dacoO  Offline OP
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Wiseguy
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How captains are choosed in crime family?Does soldier or acting capo become a new captain or...?

Last edited by dacoO; 06/14/12 08:00 AM.
Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651463
06/14/12 08:06 AM
06/14/12 08:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,783
Queenstown, New Zealand
NickyScarfo Offline
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Its basically the boss' decision, when a new boss takes over he may make a soldier into a captain and even move an existing captain down to a soldier. Acting captains can be put in place if a captain is sentenced to prison, if their in prison for life then an acting captain may become the full captain.

Re: Captain [Re: NickyScarfo] #651500
06/14/12 01:40 PM
06/14/12 01:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
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HairyKnuckles Offline
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A boss can promote any soldier to a captain´s rank or demote a captain at will. Usually, a captain runs a crew of soldiers and associates but in some cases captains are without a crew. These captains are often closer to the boss than the other crew leaders because they fully dedicate themselves to representing the boss´s interest in a certain racket and basically run it for him. It may be a small bookmaking or a numbers operation.
Some soldiers can be designated this task too. These guys does not belong to a crew and are directly "with" the boss and profits are only shared with him. In many cases, allthough not being captains, they enjoy a somewhat captain´s status within the Family.
I think this was more common in the old days, when guys were not that prone to flipping, than it is today.


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Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651501
06/14/12 01:44 PM
06/14/12 01:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 16
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dacoO Offline OP
Wiseguy
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Any good bok from captains view?

Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651524
06/14/12 03:35 PM
06/14/12 03:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,526
LuanKuci Offline
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LuanKuci  Offline
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Originally Posted By: dacoO
Any good bok from captains view?


If I have understood you question correctly...a good book to get to know the captain's way of doing business and the beefs that happen between crews whitin the same family is The Goodfellas Tapes by George Anastasia. There he describes the internal feuds that hit the Bruno LCN crime family in Philadelphia and South Jersey and it shows how the family was eventually divided into factions headed by opposing captains.

Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651528
06/14/12 03:48 PM
06/14/12 03:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,089
Brooklyn, New York
Dapper_Don Offline
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Brooklyn, New York
^^I have been meaning to read that book since I have already read Blood and Honor and the Hit man about Veasey


Tommy Shots: They want me running the family, don't they know I have a young wife?
Sal Vitale: (laughs) Tommy, jump in, the water's fine.


Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651543
06/14/12 05:14 PM
06/14/12 05:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,063
J
JCrusher Offline
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Originally Posted By: dacoO
How captains are choosed in crime family?Does soldier or acting capo become a new captain or...?


when you are made and make a lot of money for the family your stock goes up. Obviously if a capo dies or goes to jail the boss replaces him with anew capo although sometimes they make them acting capo if the guy is in jail

Re: Captain [Re: HairyKnuckles] #651566
06/15/12 12:14 AM
06/15/12 12:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
A boss can promote any soldier to a captain´s rank or demote a captain at will. Usually, a captain runs a crew of soldiers and associates but in some cases captains are without a crew. These captains are often closer to the boss than the other crew leaders because they fully dedicate themselves to representing the boss´s interest in a certain racket and basically run it for him. It may be a small bookmaking or a numbers operation.
Some soldiers can be designated this task too. These guys does not belong to a crew and are directly "with" the boss and profits are only shared with him. In many cases, allthough not being captains, they enjoy a somewhat captain´s status within the Family.
I think this was more common in the old days, when guys were not that prone to flipping, than it is today.

Like you said this was more common in the old days when crime was much more wide spread and open. There were guys running around with their own little empires and didnt have a thing to do with the mafia but they needed protection from the law and the rest of the mob. The best way to do this is to begin a relationship with the boss as many associates that were non-italian did, as well as guys who were made and like you described became captains. The best way i ever saw it described, i cant remember who some poster, that these "independent" guys joined the crime families for the corporate structure with its backing as far as money, legal protection, and street protection. Also it gave them a upper hand in bussiness dealing when other partners know of their conection"umbrella" of

Re: Captain [Re: HairyKnuckles] #651567
06/15/12 12:15 AM
06/15/12 12:15 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
D
danielperrygin Offline
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Originally Posted By: HairyKnuckles
A boss can promote any soldier to a captain´s rank or demote a captain at will. Usually, a captain runs a crew of soldiers and associates but in some cases captains are without a crew. These captains are often closer to the boss than the other crew leaders because they fully dedicate themselves to representing the boss´s interest in a certain racket and basically run it for him. It may be a small bookmaking or a numbers operation.
Some soldiers can be designated this task too. These guys does not belong to a crew and are directly "with" the boss and profits are only shared with him. In many cases, allthough not being captains, they enjoy a somewhat captain´s status within the Family.
I think this was more common in the old days, when guys were not that prone to flipping, than it is today.

Like you said this was more common in the old days when crime was much more wide spread and open. There were guys running around with their own little empires and didnt have a thing to do with the mafia but they needed protection from the law and the rest of the mob. The best way to do this is to begin a relationship with the boss as many associates that were non-italian did, as well as guys who were made and like you described became captains. The best way i ever saw it described, i cant remember who some poster, that these "independent" guys joined the crime families for the corporate structure with its backing as far as money, legal protection, and street protection. Also it gave them a upper hand in bussiness dealing when other partners know of their connection to the "umbrella" of protection supplied by the mob.

Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651568
06/15/12 12:16 AM
06/15/12 12:16 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
D
danielperrygin Offline
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Underboss
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Posts: 578
Opps

Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651750
06/16/12 02:49 PM
06/16/12 02:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
F
FrankMazola Offline
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NJ
Factions must have a lot to do with demoting capos. Like think about when Gotti "became" boss, I'm sure Big Paul had a ton of "his" capos. Someone with the facts can correct me but I bet Gotti threw some of his guys into Gambino middle management. Much like a new President selecting a cabinet.

I also have a relevant question: Do Underbosses and Consigliere (pl?) have crews of guys from which they make money? Does the boss give them a cut of his take? I don't understand how they can make money without a crew of guys from which to receive tributes.


F. Mazola, Esq.
Re: Captain [Re: danielperrygin] #651751
06/16/12 02:50 PM
06/16/12 02:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 517
NJ
F
FrankMazola Offline
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NJ
Originally Posted By: danielperrygin

Like you said this was more common in the old days when crime was much more wide spread and open. There were guys running around with their own little empires and didnt have a thing to do with the mafia but they needed protection from the law and the rest of the mob. The best way to do this is to begin a relationship with the boss as many associates that were non-italian did, as well as guys who were made and like you described became captains. The best way i ever saw it described, i cant remember who some poster, that these "independent" guys joined the crime families for the corporate structure with its backing as far as money, legal protection, and street protection. Also it gave them a upper hand in bussiness dealing when other partners know of their connection to the "umbrella" of protection supplied by the mob.


Alla "The Westies" of Hell's Kitchen and the "Hell's Angels" of Montreal w/ the Rizzuto's?


F. Mazola, Esq.
Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651775
06/16/12 08:11 PM
06/16/12 08:11 PM
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Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
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From what i understand the underboss and consig run the crews for the boss, so the money funnels through them to the boss with everyone getting their cut. I want to say i read somewhere maybeThe Five Families , but i could be wrong as im not a gotti student, that Gotti's underboss ran half the crews and the consig the other half.

Re: Captain [Re: danielperrygin] #651777
06/16/12 08:27 PM
06/16/12 08:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
I

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: danielperrygin
From what i understand the underboss and consig run the crews for the boss, so the money funnels through them to the boss with everyone getting their cut. I want to say i read somewhere maybeThe Five Families , but i could be wrong as im not a gotti student, that Gotti's underboss ran half the crews and the consig the other half.


When Castellano was boss, it was said the "white collar" faction of the family answered to him, while the "blue collar" faction answered to Dellacroce. But that separation seemed to go away when Gotti took over. Both Gravano and Locascio continued to have influence over their specific crews even though other guys stepped up for them as acting captains.

When I first started reading about the mob years ago, I had this mental picture of the boss being this really "aloof" guy who only met with two other guys - his underboss and his consigliere. The underboss was the guy who actually dealt with the captains directly, passing on orders from the boss. And the consigliere was an old, semi-retired guy who just weighed in from time to time.

Maybe it was that way in some cases, back in the day or whatever, but it seems it isn't so clear cut in real life. We see plenty of examples of all the guys in an administration - boss, underboss, and consigliere - being more directly involved in things. Sometimes even basically running their own crews, if not entire factions of the family, while holding their respective titles.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Captain [Re: IvyLeague] #651783
06/16/12 09:49 PM
06/16/12 09:49 PM
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Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: danielperrygin
From what i understand the underboss and consig run the crews for the boss, so the money funnels through them to the boss with everyone getting their cut. I want to say i read somewhere maybeThe Five Families , but i could be wrong as im not a gotti student, that Gotti's underboss ran half the crews and the consig the other half.


When Castellano was boss, it was said the "white collar" faction of the family answered to him, while the "blue collar" faction answered to Dellacroce. But that separation seemed to go away when Gotti took over. Both Gravano and Locascio continued to have influence over their specific crews even though other guys stepped up for them as acting captains.

When I first started reading about the mob years ago, I had this mental picture of the boss being this really "aloof" guy who only met with two other guys - his underboss and his consigliere. The underboss was the guy who actually dealt with the captains directly, passing on orders from the boss. And the consigliere was an old, semi-retired guy who just weighed in from time to time.

Maybe it was that way in some cases, back in the day or whatever, but it seems it isn't so clear cut in real life. We see plenty of examples of all the guys in an administration - boss, underboss, and consigliere - being more directly involved in things. Sometimes even basically running their own crews, if not entire factions of the family, while holding their respective titles.


Do you remember reading what i explained anywhere though ivy, i could swear i did.

Re: Captain [Re: FrankMazola] #651784
06/16/12 09:52 PM
06/16/12 09:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
D
danielperrygin Offline
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Originally Posted By: FrankMazola
Originally Posted By: danielperrygin

Like you said this was more common in the old days when crime was much more wide spread and open. There were guys running around with their own little empires and didnt have a thing to do with the mafia but they needed protection from the law and the rest of the mob. The best way to do this is to begin a relationship with the boss as many associates that were non-italian did, as well as guys who were made and like you described became captains. The best way i ever saw it described, i cant remember who some poster, that these "independent" guys joined the crime families for the corporate structure with its backing as far as money, legal protection, and street protection. Also it gave them a upper hand in bussiness dealing when other partners know of their connection to the "umbrella" of protection supplied by the mob.


Alla "The Westies" of Hell's Kitchen and the "Hell's Angels" of Montreal w/ the Rizzuto's?


Naw i mean more like a guy that already has connections and a crew with no need for the mafia, other than the name backing them up. I will see if i can find the post.

Re: Captain [Re: danielperrygin] #651785
06/16/12 10:29 PM
06/16/12 10:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
Originally Posted By: danielperrygin


Do you remember reading what i explained anywhere though ivy, i could swear i did.


No, I never read anywhere that Gravano was running half the family and Locascio was running the other half. Don't know where you got that.

Was this from the same documentary that Crea was on? wink


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651796
06/17/12 12:52 AM
06/17/12 12:52 AM
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danielperrygin Offline
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danielperrygin  Offline
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This is lucky on realdeal, it explains what i was trying to say alot better:

Post Re: Charlie "White" Tourine
I think that some of these guys,Catena and Adonis especially were serious syndicate players prior to Luciano's vision for modern day Cosa Nostra.They were already bosses and involved nationally with the national distribution of booze and gambling,especially the national wire service run by Mo Annenberg.Catena's mentor was Longy and Adonis was friends with Lansky.Subsequently guys like Tourine and others were operating under them,again before Cosa Nostra.These are the tools Cosa Nostra used to expand and yet remain cohesive at the same time.Costello was part of this group and I think therein lies the Genovese family as being more proactive dealing with non Italian syndicates as the other NY families.This seems the case with Cleveland and Detroit as well,and of course Chicago where non Italians such as Humphreys,Guzik and later Gus Alex actually functioned in boss capacities at the administrative level.The Genovese was clearly 'Americanized' at its' inception and there lies Luciano's genius.Regarding the Boot,he was nearly 40 by the time Luciano called his ''meeting'',he was a boss in Newark for 15 years by this time and a cagey fuck,he moved booze all over and obviously had connections on his own.Cosa Nostra is really two significant movements at its' inception.
It 'franchised' criminal membership and gave independents the power of a corporate structure and it was a merger or acquisition of existing holdings by Italians like Costello,Catena and Adonis giving the Genovese the heads up on the other NY Families.For years the core base of Cosa Nostra power was pretty equal in NY and the tri state area,and later the Gambinos may have surpassed,at least in localized assessment the Genovese family in NY,but never nationally.Joe Bayonne was a power house and I think the key is that like his Bonnano counterparts he understood the need to politically corrupt local government which he did as an equal with his Genovese counter parts in Hudson County.From a political stand point Hudson County was as powerfull as Chicago in terms of influencing the national Democratic Party.It boasted both Frank Hague the long time mayor of Jersey and his hand picked leader John V Kenney.They equaled mayor DALY in Chicago politically.Joseph Kennedy needed Hudson County's blessing before JFK ran for president and he was told by Daly to get it and then 'come back' if he wanted his son to be president.Ziccarelli tapped into that power,which including getting Cornelius Gallagher elected to congress and controlling him.Gallagher was one of the first NJ politicos to get pinched along with Kenney's nephew and successor John J Kenney.Later Addonizio would fall in Newark.The Boot for all his green horn thinking isolated Pete Rodino from most of this except sponsoring immigration legislation.Thus Rodino passed muster on a national level despite severe scrutiny prior to becoming Chairmen of the House Judiciary Committee during the Watergate hearing in 73 and 74.The power of Cosa Nostra is the politics of Cosa Nostra and those that understood that power became powerfull.Corruption is an art form and more powerfull than a scud missile when managed by the right person.Pic

Re: Captain [Re: IvyLeague] #651798
06/17/12 12:53 AM
06/17/12 12:53 AM
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Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
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Originally Posted By: IvyLeague
Originally Posted By: danielperrygin


Do you remember reading what i explained anywhere though ivy, i could swear i did.


No, I never read anywhere that Gravano was running half the family and Locascio was running the other half. Don't know where you got that.

Was this from the same documentary that Crea was on? wink

Sorry should have worded this better, i meant have you ever read of a family where the crew were divided between the ub and cons?

Re: Captain [Re: danielperrygin] #651805
06/17/12 01:43 AM
06/17/12 01:43 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 8,534
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IvyLeague Offline
IvyLeague  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
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Originally Posted By: danielperrygin

Sorry should have worded this better, i meant have you ever read of a family where the crew were divided between the ub and cons?


I can't think of any off the top of my head. It's not quite the same thing but when Bobby Manna was consigliere, he was said to run the Jersey faction of the Genovese family.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651807
06/17/12 01:55 AM
06/17/12 01:55 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 578
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danielperrygin Offline
Underboss
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Underboss
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Catena did this as well, right?

Re: Captain [Re: danielperrygin] #651813
06/17/12 02:57 AM
06/17/12 02:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
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IvyLeague Offline
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Originally Posted By: danielperrygin
Catena did this as well, right?


I've read that he did. Except he was the underboss, if I remember right. The details about him have always been a little hazy.


Mods should mind their own business and leave poster's profile signatures alone.
Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #651937
06/17/12 08:35 PM
06/17/12 08:35 PM
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Ted Offline
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Don't captains choose who will be acting captain if they are doing a stint in prison? I'd imagine such an arrangement would be made beforehand. For a life sentence a boss picking would beige logical since there would be a new captain (not acting).


"I die outside; I die in jail. It don't matter to me," -John Franzese
Re: Captain [Re: dacoO] #652032
06/18/12 09:45 AM
06/18/12 09:45 AM
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Posts: 578
D
danielperrygin Offline
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Some captians control entire factions of the families, and weild power even behind bars. Phillip "Rusty" Rastelli?

Re: Captain [Re: FrankMazola] #652241
06/19/12 05:57 AM
06/19/12 05:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,418
Secret location (WITSEC)
HairyKnuckles Offline
Underboss
HairyKnuckles  Offline
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Originally Posted By: FrankMazola
Factions must have a lot to do with demoting capos. Like think about when Gotti "became" boss, I'm sure Big Paul had a ton of "his" capos. Someone with the facts can correct me but I bet Gotti threw some of his guys into Gambino middle management. Much like a new President selecting a cabinet.

I also have a relevant question: Do Underbosses and Consigliere (pl?) have crews of guys from which they make money? Does the boss give them a cut of his take? I don't understand how they can make money without a crew of guys from which to receive tributes.


Besides demoting and promoting captains at will at any time, it seems that the circulation of captains is at a high whenever a new boss is crowned. This would make logical sense since the new boss wants to have people around him who are "in debt" to him. In the case of John Gotti he seems to have promoted Angelo Ruggiero in 1985 (later shelved by Gotti), George DeCicco in 1985, Gene Gotti in 1986 (?) (later demoted and replaced by Peter Gotti), John Giordano in 1986, Anthony "Sonny" Ciccone in 1986, Tony "C" Carminati in 1986, Paulie Zaccaria in 1986 (later demoted and replaced by Jackie D´Amico), Johnny Gambino in 1986 (?), Robert DiBernardo in 1986 (murdered the same year), "Big" Chris Richichi in 1986, Mike Mondaglia in 1986 (died in 1988?), Robert Bisaccia in 1988, Danny Marino in 1988 (?) and Eddie Lino in 1988 (murdered in 1990).

And it looks like he demoted these guys:
Nino Gaggi, Tony Scotto, "Fat" Andy Ruggiano, Joe "The Cat" LaForte Sr and Nick Corozzo (who was later promoted back to a captain´s rank.)
(Some of the captains active while Castellano was alive died off around the time Gotti took over, so the number of captains stayed basically the same.)

Last edited by HairyKnuckles; 06/19/12 06:53 AM.

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