Well, the guys that you mentioned can possibly beat theses charges. I've maintained that from the beginning. But I have to disagree about the other guys getting time served if convicted.

Now it's fine if you're saying that you want them to beat the charges, as long as you're honest about it. That doesn't necessarily make anyone a "fanboy." It's also fine if you think the charges are all bullshit. That's also your right. But as far as sentencing goes, these are the Feds we're talking about.

There are Federal sentencing guidelines in place that MUST BE FOLLOWED. So you really can't give a prediction about sentencing until after the verdict comes out. Because if Ligambi, as the head of a criminal organization (the Feds description, not mine), is convicted of the top charges, he'll be in his 80's when he gets out, assuming that he survives.

The guidelines state that he'll get roughly ten years if convicted of the top charges. And like I said, the Judge has to follow those guidelines.

Honestly the only thing I think they deserve to go to jail for is taking over the machine business. Maybe the no show job, but they havent proved if that was extortion or just a favor to ligambi in exchange for jobs and protection. But even on those charges, i dont believe warrants 10 yrs. Restitution, a fine, and yeah a few yrs, but keep in mind theyve been in for 2+ already. Being a bookie? Having some machines? It seems like its only a big deal if its unregulated or untaxed. Loansharking? Same, goes either way for me. If it gets to the point of extortionate (and i dont mean as in the federal terms), as in the borrower is hurt, or forced to bankrupt his business, yeah. But then again, shylocks seem like peanuts compared to credit card companies. So for the amount of corruption and underhandedness that goes on in corporate america and in politics today, coupled with years of unfair tactics by law enforcement and the justice system... Yeah i hope these guys get off. Just my opinion.

Skinny you are right comparing credit card companies to the shylocks, money mutual is the same thing and for some reason its legal.....i think a big part of the verdict will come down to if they beleive bent nose and his information....crazy case they went after these guys for 10 years and this all they have

That wasn't my point, Skinny. I went out of my way to say that if you're pulling for them to beat it, that's fine. That's your right. My point was that wishful thinking won't get them time served. There are Federal guidelines at stake here. The Judge can't go outside of them unless there's an extreme reason for doing so.

If Ligambi is convicted of the top charges, he's getting at least ten years. You can take that to the bank. Yes, he's been in for two. But with the Feds you do close to 90% of the time. So he'll still have at least seven years to go. He's 73 now. He'll be AT LEAST 80 when he's released if he's convicted of the extortion charge. But he may get off. And if you're hoping that he does, like I said, that's your right.

I think Damion is looking at the most time if he gets convicted. Poor bastard is looking at something like twenty years.

I wasnt argueing with u on the sentencing guidlines. Just giving my opinion as to wheather or not i was rooting for them.

I never said you were. No problem, buddy .

i think acouple of these guys the jury will be deadlocked on, resulting in mistrials for acouple of guys. like 8-4 guilt or not thats a mistrial if they cant come to a unanimous decision right? on philly.com the jurors want to read some of the recored tapes but the lawyer jacob got the judge to have the jury listen to them again cause the evidence is what they hear not read, that a win for them.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaki...iberations.html

John P. Martin, INQUIRER STAFF WRITER
Posted: Wednesday, January 9, 2013, 12:23 PM
Jurors in the racketeering trial of reputed Philadelphia mob boss Joseph Ligambi and six others opened a second day of deliberations by asking to review some of the hundreds of tape recordings played at the trial.

The panel of seven men and five women gave no clue Wednesday to their progress, but their requests were specific. They asked to review two exhibits, hear four recordings, and get transcripts of all the other tapes played during the 10-week trial.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Labor said the government had no objection to giving jurors transcripts. Ligambi's lawyer, Edwin Jacobs, objected, arguing that transcripts are merely aids but that the tapes themselves are the evidence. If the jury wants, it can hear those tapes again in court, Jacobs noted.

U.S. District Judge Eduardo Robreno agreed. He directed the lawyers to prepare a list of all the tapes from trial. That might help jurors identify which they want replayed.

Jurors also asked for the trial testimony of Curt Arbitman, a former video poker vendor. Arbitman, who has pleaded guilty to racketeering, testified over two days for the government in late November about his dealings with some of the defendants.

Robreno had not yet ruled on that request, saying it might be moot after jurors get the list of tapes.

The trial began in mid-October and followed a decade-long FBI investigation that included as many as 15,000 secret recordings made by informants and cooperation from mob turncoats.

Ligambi, 73, is accused of leading a wide-ranging criminal enterprise that included illegal bookmaking, loan-sharking, extortion and other crimes. His codefendants include his nephew and alleged consigliere, George Borgesi; reputed underboss Joseph Massimino; reputed captains Anthony Staino, Joseph Licata; alleged soldier Damion Canalichio and an associate, Gary Battaglini.

Defense lawyers say the charges are flimsy accusations based on claims by admitted criminals and turncoats trying to save themselves. They also have noted that the case includes none of the allegations of brutal violence that have been hallmarks of past mob prosecutions.

and I know is brother is on here but..with the other case going on with niccodemo where he could be looking at a murder charge he may want to get out of the 20 years, and I know his brother knows him better but if he WAS to get the 20 years, that is a life time. For his brother I hope he is out later today

Its not his brother he just says that

DN, you are a funny dude, not funny like a clown but more like wind up funny....good shiznet keep it coming!!

I just say that?? Follow me on Twitter Dick... Same name...I don't make shit up like you. In the hallway of the 15th floor right now....

Look To your left

http://www.bigtrial.net/2013/01/massimino-smiles-as-jury-deliberations.html#more

Wednesday, January 9, 2013
Massimino Smiles as Jury Deliberations Continue
Give him this, he's an optimist.

Mob underboss Joseph "Mousie" Massimino continue his upbeat banter and chatter Wednesday as jury deliberations rolled on in the racketeering conspiracy case against him, mob boss Joseph "Uncle Joe" Ligambi and five others.

"Frank, you look a little nervous over there," Massimino quipped to Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Labor as the defendants filed into the courtroom to hear a question that had been posed by the jury panel. "Don't worry. Everything will be alright."

Massimino, 62, has spent the last week talking about the "party" he hopes to attend after the jury returns with an not guilty verdict and he and the other defendants are freed.

"Keep those martini glasses chilled" has been one of his constant refrains.

One of five mobsters being held without bail, Massimino showed up in court Wednesday dressed in a neatly tailored camel-hair sport coat and a tan, turtle-neck sweater, looking more like a literary figure than a mobster. The civilian dress is provided by family members and friends for the jailed defendants who are being housed in the Federal Detention Center across the street from the federal courthouse where the trial is being held.

The jury deliberated for about six hours Wednesday, their first full day to assess the evidence. They got the case Tuesday afternoon. Deliberations are set to resume 8:30 Thursday morning.

Based on a series of questions submitted in writing by the jury to Judge Eduardo Robreno Wednesday it appeared the panel of seven men and five women were focusing on the part of the case in which authorities allege Ligambi, Massimino and co-defendant Anthony Staino took over a video poker machine company operations.

The indictment alleges the three formed a ficticious company and set up a bogus sales agreement after forcing the owners of a vending machine company to give up their routes and about 35 poker machines placed in bars, restaurant and social clubs.

The defense has contended that the transaction was a legitimate business deal.

The jurors asked to hear four secretly recorded conversations in which the poker machine business was discussed. Three of the conversations, from wiretaped phones, were conversations between Staino and Curt Arbitman, a video poker machine distributor who has pleaded guilty to a racketeering conspiracy charge and testified for the government.

Among other things, the jury has also asked to see Arbitman's plea agreement and to hear his testimony replayed. Judge Robreno ruled that they could see the plea deal, but asked the jury to think further on whether they wanted to hear Arbitman's entire testimony, which stretched over two days during the three-month trial.

Robreno withheld any ruling, but has the option of telling the jurors to rely on their recollection of what Arbitman said on the stand.

While he was called as a government witness, Arbitman appeared to bend over backwards at times to support the defense's claims. He said he serviced the machines that Massimino, Ligambi and Staino "purchased" and that many of the machines were in deplorable condition, a contention that the former owner of the company, testifying later in the case, denied.

Arbitman also testified that he seldom charged Staino or the others for any repair work on the machines, but said Staino always reimbured him for parts.

The tapes the jury wanted to rehear Wednesday included three conversations between Arbitman and Staino about the poker machine business, including problems with machines and a discussion about a raid in which authorities had seized a machine from a customer.

"They're real ball breakers," Staino said of the authorities who conducted the raid.

Arbitman, a veteran of the business, added that ironically in years past when the poker machine business generated substantial profits, operators were largely left alone by authorities.

"Now they (the machines) don't make no money and they get bothered," Arbitman said of the stores and bars where the machines were located.

More damaging was a fourth tape in which Arbitman had a discussion with Wally Carnivale and Gaeton Lucibello about a problem with machines in Northeast Philadelphia.

On the tape Carnivale, who also became a government cooperator, complained to Arbitman that he was being harassed by an individual named "Fat Vick" who told him to keep his machines out of Northest Philadelphia or they would be destroyed.

Arbitman arranged for Carnivale to meet with Lucibello, a South Philadelphia mobster. Lucibello was indicted with Ligambi and the others in the current case but pleaded guilty prior to the start of the trial.
In a taped conversation Lucibello told Carnivale not to worry about the threat.

"Tell Fat Vic to come and see me," Lucibello said. "Tell him I said he's a fat fuck."

Speculation on why the jury wanted to hear that particular tape was both positive and negative for the defense.

Some believed that the question showed the jury was focusing on Arbitman's role in the business and how it was distinct from what Ligambi, Staino and Massimino did. Others said the incident shows the mob's influence and control over the video poker machine business and reinforced the government's position that fear, intimidation and threats of violence were part of the racketeering conspiracy that is at the heart of the case.
Read more at http://www.bigtrial.net/2013/01/massimino-smiles-as-jury-deliberations.html#7fg5DHC6ruLC4ZYP.99

i think its a shame that some here mock you

how about this

I say that the witnesses are more unscrupulous than the defendants

His left or mine?

That's always the case in these trials. If they get convicted it will be because of the tapes, not because of a bunch of career scumbags who turned government witness. These guys make Sammy Gravano look like a Rhoades Scholar.

His (southphilly13)

i see your point, makes sense.

I might as well throw my two cents in before this is over. I say Ligambi, Massimino, and Staino will be guilty. Too much evidence against them, in the end the Feds will get them. But they will only be convicted on a couple things. I think Damion, Scoops and Battaglini walk. They did nothing to tie Scoops to this case. I think Damion and Gary will get lucky.

As for Borgesi I honestly cannot say. He's the trickiest to predict. Either way wouldn't surprise me, but it'll really suck if the guy has to spend another decade in the can. One thing I'm certain of however, this won't be the end of the drama in Philly. A lot depends on Nicodemo.

Personally I'm with a lot of people in saying this case is bullshit. But I'm not fooling myself, the government will nab a few if not all of these guys. I just hope they can have as much success nailing scumbag dealers, gangbangers and cartels as they do with a bunch of gamblers from South Philly.

You were both standing the same way!!!! Zing!!! Bahahahahaha

^^Well you can't miss me right southphilly13 because remember instead of having a human nose I have a Dick for a nose I'm like the elephantman! As I walk down the cold street people stare at me and I just hiss at them

I actually had to look back on some older pages of this thread to see what was my last prediction cause I couldn't remember, it was guilty across the board with only Licata having a chance of getting off.

BUT, I have decided to change that. I am probably going to get flack for this which I dont care because I can back up why I will say this (see my previous posts in this thread) but I now predict GUILTY across the board on at least ONE charge for every defendant.

Let all the fanboys come out and pounce.

It's ok. I don't need to prove who I am. I got to much gone on to worry about this clown...

Gateon Lucibello has some great one liners " Come see me" I remember picking on kids in high school or being a smartass to the football coach and would be like "See Me Son!" "Come See me!" It was like an inside joke ...I like his one quote " Tell him to come see me, to him to button up." Rocking the Sean John Velour Suit

"I am not an elephant! I am not an animal! I am a human being! I am a man!"

HAHAHA your right Dicknose..Cant spell for shit..and couldnt shhot 4 shit..But that m16 was like a pellet gun..That bad boy was accurate..even if you only kinda knew what your doin..I know you watch the discovery miltary channel they compare the ak47 versus the m16..the ak punches through blocks and car doors and our hummers..the m16 wont..But the m16 you can hit someone at 500yrds pretty easy..Where at 5ooyd the ak you have to adjust for the round dropage..

I can shave a goats nutsack at a half a mile with a 9mm

I got 2 more cents here..the jury may take the fact the ratfinger testomony where he tried real hard to put these guys away..OF course for what reason??Almost too hard to pit them away..And prior grumblings of them not getting along before the trial..And everyone said ratfinger was real greedy..The jury might not want to believe this guy also....